hyperv6

Imagine a Cadillac fuel cell car,Hmm! I have driven one of GM's Fuel Cell cars already and I came away very impressed. The Car I drove could very easily be used for a daily driver today. Now the real issues are where to fill up and how long it take to fill up. Till someone fills the needs on fill stations and how to refuel faster this will be an issue. Honda also has a viable cell car too. I myself would love to have a fuel cell car but till someone invest in improvments in fueling sites it will remain an issue. The goverment wants to invest in rail systems in many areas that no one wants. If they wanted to make some impact they would be better off helping fund systems to support and refuel these cars. I know here in Ohio no one would have taken the train but I could see these cars doing well here.

I always lovded the rear window. Too bad they never sold enough to keep making them.

A production based concpet truck could be shown but we would not see the production till later at the Texas fair. Texas is normally for production vehicle intro's. Chicago used to be Pontiac and a GMC show but I think that has changed. Most of the major intro's are Detroits now with smaller intro's going to NY and new model intro's to LA. Most MFG's are cutting back on shows and will combine most of the intro's to the biggest and most important show in Detroit.

Yes it is too soon for the Vette and Impala yet. GM is not showing that far ahead anymore. I expect the Vette, Impala and the RWD V8 sport sedan to show up in about 12-18 months. As for GMC I am sure they will have something with the full size truck or SUV. We should be seeing something on a new Granite too. Keep in mind GM does not alway tell us everyting in Detroit at one time.

If Hyundai can design and build a DOHC V8 from scratch, then I am sure Cadillac can also. They did it for about 90 years, I'm sure they can do it again. Hyundai is also not coming out of chapter 11 in need to revamp several divisions and with no current V8 design to put into production. At some point the bankruptcy excuse isn't going to be valid anymore.... Engines aren't just an app you can download on your smartphone for a dollar. They take years and years of development work. And a lot of money even for a well off company.

That was my thought. You crash a gas powered car and if the tank leaks you drain the tank. You crash a Electric car and the battery leaks you drain the battery. I still say this is more about other car companies fearing the GM system taking hold and hurting their own plans and investments they have made in EV systems. Who ever wins this battle can cost the other companies a lot of money. The next big thing is a call for a goverment investigation by Reps from states with Honda, Toyota and other MFG's plants. They have been lobbied to look into this and reports are they may well do so. You would think they would have better things like cutting goverment spending to worry about vs investigating a proactive GM that is working to solve odd rare issues with a new type of car. Dwm or Rep they should be taken out of office for wasting my money. I am so tired of the BS. If one was to look deep there are several MFG that are spending money to expose in the press and with the goverment any weakness they can on the Voltech system. I am willing to bet Toyota leads spending as they have the most to lose once GM advances this system and extends ranges and lower cost.

If Hyundai can design and build a DOHC V8 from scratch, then I am sure Cadillac can also. They did it for about 90 years, I'm sure they can do it again. Hyundai is also not coming out of chapter 11 in need to revamp several divisions and with no current V8 design to put into production. At some point the bankruptcy excuse isn't going to be valid anymore.... Sorry but a little factor of Time, Man Power and Money are still a controling factor in the time it takes to address all the issues at GM. Even with the new money they can not shorten time it takes to develop a car. Also they can not do them all at once as there is still only so much money they can spend at one time and limited staff to do the work. It would be a great thing to turn GM around in only 3 years but you still have to deal with the reality. Once they have past the time line for life model life cycles and for the new product they have and had time to develople the new product with the new money. This time line should be 5-10 years post Bankruptcy not counting outside factors as the economy and car sales. At this point all bets are off and they have had the time to address most issues. Lets face it Ford has a head start and they are still rebuilding.

If Hyundai can design and build a DOHC V8 from scratch, then I am sure Cadillac can also. They did it for about 90 years, I'm sure they can do it again. Hyundai is also not coming out of chapter 11 in need to revamp several divisions and with no current V8 design to put into production. Do you want to spend their budget on a low volume engine or do you want to get Cadillac back to selling more than just two car lines? I feel they should have their engine too but I also kno the reality and would be just fine with the couple thousand CTSV with a Camaro engine at near 600 Hp. The engine is a need not a priority.

Cadillac could do a engine for themselves but I would expect would be done with a partner like BMW, Lotus or one of the other smaller companies that do customer engines in low volumes at a resonable price. GM could design it but someone else would built it. Kind of like the Merc built ZR1. I could see it in the flag ship, sports car and V series. But till GM gets Cadillac supplies with new and more models I don't see them doing this engine soon. At some point if they want to move up they need to set themselves apart. GM really needs to start leaking more info on new products. Since the Chapter 11 we have had too few things to debate.

I would not expect much in even spy photo's till next August.

I know the Camaro has options on different color plastic covers. LOL! I really would like to see them put the effort into the Cadillac engine as they did in the ZR1. I would leave off the hood window but they should have the engine to the point you could open it and people would say wow and whats under the plastic plastic. I know they use the covers for sound deadening but I really think in the V a litle engine sound will not hurt it a bit. But even on the 3.6 they should style the engine and not just slap a cover over it.

Ferrari uses the Cadillac Magnaride. May as well tear all my Ferrari posters down in shame. Sharing is a part of the industry no matter who or what. Getr used to it as it will not go away. The key is for GM to take these parts and make very different feeling and looking cars with them. GM will do different platforms and engines where it is affordable but they will not compromise a car in several other areas just to do a one off engine. I do wish GM would dress up the engines in the Cadillac a little more and dump the engine cover. They could make it look a lot better with more aluminum and color. My Fiero 2.8 looks like a whole different engine from the 2.8 Chevy of the same year, The use of aluminum, powder coat and stainless 12 point fasteners make for a much better looking package. People see the engine and think I did it since most of GM's other engines in that era were so plain.

Don't forget the W engines that are shared with VW, Audi. Bugatti, and Bently. Today a company needs to share with divisions or it will need to share with other companies. BMW has worked with GM and now is talking to Toyota to share cost on new technologies and parts. Development cost are so high any more the cost need to be spread out as much as they can. This is why even cross town rivals GM and Ford shared funding in the transaxle they co developed.

But the CTS-V isn't built on the same platform, suspension, transmission and engine as a Malibu or Cruze. And actually, I'd prefer Cadillac make their own engine that is not used in Corvette for their V-series cars. But that is another topic altogether. I am not convinced the ELR won't just be a Cadillac Volt with a different body, maybe with a battery upgrade. Sorry but the economics of scale do not work they way you want. Don't think GM would love to have a Cadillac engine all their own too. The fact is GM is a family and things must be shared. The fact is the CTS Engine in your eyes may be shared with the Vette but to others it is shared with a pick up truck. Not that that is bad or good it is just the way it is and will be. I am not suprised you are not convinced as you really have not shown you really have picked up on where GM is and where they are going. Others here see the big picture and the steps in the transformation. Many have seen, been in and driven the cars that we have now and understand what is going on. Right now is just clean up time with the product that was rushed before the Chapter 11. The new Vette, ATS and pckups will show the first post Chapter 11 work and it will be moving GM in greater steps forward. The fact is the extra money they can charge for this Cadillac will give them the ability to offer what they could not in a Chevy. Also this car will be the best looking EV in the world. To me I like it better than the FIsker and Tesla sedans. It will show the world you don't have to look like a easter egg to be electric. I would bet by the time this car hist it will show the 2.0 version of the Voltech drive system. Who knows it may even go to the 3.0 since both have been in development for a while now and may be ready to move to production. Work on these advance systems started before the Volt hit the streets and what better way to trickle the technology down than a Cadillac show case in the best looking EV sedan.

Using the Volt like [note not the same tune] driveline is no different than using an LS engine in the CTS. You can explain it any way you like but they are saving money by using a GM corp engine vs making a Cadillac specific engine. Even companies as large as GM have to share cost on expensive development work. This is one thing that will remain a part of Cadillac into the future. Now that is not to say the division can do a good job taking the basic parts and making it their own just as they did with the CTSV. While it may start with the basic parts of the Volt the Cadillac will be by the time we see it a very different car. I expect it will be as close to the Volt as the ATS will be to the 6th gen Camaro. GM has and will continue to share drivelines engine and transmissions. Hell they even share some of these Transmissions designs wth BMW and indirectly with Ford. So as long as GM shared basic engines there is no reason to not expect them to share this new technology in various forms with other divisions. Wait till this car is out and you will see what they have done. This will not be a Cadillac Volt. This car will see things a Volt will never see in production till later or if at all. I would not term this a halo car but I would term it a technology show case car. It is kind of like the car of tomarrow that you can own today. The styling is only the frosting here. With the higher price they will charge they can afford to put things into this car they could not with the Volt. Because the Volt was a Chevy there was really a major effort to retain the cost all they could. GM has not screwed up on many of the new cars they have brought out. Most are selling and have been accpeted well. These are not even the new products started after the Chapter 11. Things are good now and I expect will only get better starting with the ATS and later products.

How many of them are doing this more for the fact they got in over their heads payment wise.

He is just pointing out it is a car to attract people to Cadillac and highlight that they are not just about gas guzzlers. I know many people who own and drive Prius that can afford a much more expensive car but there are few options for the tree hugger. Just look at all the Hollywood people who own them. Every time you turn around they appear on Top Gear and tell Jeremy they own a Prius to go with their AMG Black edition. Cars like this they are not going to save the planet but to the owner and the seller the image you are trying is everything. The green movment may not be large in this country but it is growning. Each generation is becoming more and more involved. In Europe it is a major movment to the point companies like Porsche and others are looking into doing eviro super cars. This car is more about expanding the image of Cadillac for the future and to help spread the investment cost of the Volt out over more products. I think he is telling you this is more about an investment for th future and building an multi demensional image for Cadillac. The market Cadillac is in is no longer one demension. Power, technology, luxury and eviromental are the key areas for most luxury marks anymore. They all need to offer something in a combination of these areas. In the past power, luxury and big alone would get you buy but no longer.

No it WON'T. Unless their is a MAJOR development which reduces the need for lithium, or we discover Greenland is a huge lithium deposit, lithium will remain expensive. We only recently learned of a large deposit, and its in Afghanistan... so we're going to be making a new group of tin-pot dictators into a major player and battery prices will fluctuate depending on their mood. Saying that advances will make the batteries cheaper is like saying in 1974 that advances will make catalytic converters cheaper. Well, aside from one advancement (going from pellet to mesh), cats have gotten more expensive... because platinum is still very rare. Luckily, lithium is not nearly as rare as platinum... but it also has more competition for its use. Only 23% becomes batteries. Plus there is mounting evidence that increasing lithium production is not ecologically sound. Granted, this chart does not cover 2009-2011, but I assure you, the prices have not plummeted. My statment was not just batteries but motors and all other parts in the system that are expensive today due to start up cost and low volume. With higher volumes the price will drop on these parts with compitition and voulume.; Yes the Battery is the most expensive part and who's is to say future power will be Lithium 10 years from now? The motors are relatively cheap, already... However, they also depend on a fairly expensive metal... copper. Not long ago, I was reading how the copper supply was scheduled to run out in 5 years... which has had the result of convincing people to start removing long abandoned (for fiber) wiring and upgrade plumbing to PEX/CPVC and selling their old pipes as if it was jewelry. I still maintain that generator/motor tech is nothing radically new... and either is the controller systems. In general these are similar to forklifts... but the motors are somewhat repackaged. The only thing 'new' to this stuff are the fact that they have GM part numbers... and need to go through the typical GM part inverted bell curve for pricing. Who says the future is Lithium? Well, most electric engineers would. It took Li Ion cells from 1979 to 1996 to come to market... and until 2003 to become mainstream... over 20 years. If you read about tech on a regular basis, you will see techs in the news for years before they are ready for the consumer. Where are the flexible solar panels? Foldable/rollable LCD screens? Flying cars? These have been around for roughly 10, 6 and 35 years, respectfully... and are still not here. There is nothing on the horizon that appears to be supplanting Li Ion in the next decade. Even if we invent Mr. Fusion TOMORROW, it would take 10 years of testing and fireproofing before the lawyers let it hit the streets. Demand is high for gold, as well. But you still can't turn lead into gold, regardless of the alchemists that claim that "there is a lot of interesting work going on right now in this area and many are showing great promise." Companies developing any new technology are out to claim being first (to get patents) and to draw in additional investment... and love to spout off lots of promises that don't really pan out. Sure, advances are coming... the laws of physics are putting a brake on the rate of advancements... regardless of demand. I'm not discounting the possibility that something earth-shattering will develop tomorrow (like Mr. Fusion)... but when you pinpoint the most earth-shattering developments, most occurred long ago... and we live in a time of slower incremental improvement. The only exception to this is Moore's law... but even that is coming apart. Battery development severely trails even the currently busted Moore's law. With such high demand for better battery power in many products today there is more development money being spent now than ever. It is just a matter of time before someone will find a much better, efficent and cheaper power cell. The Prize for the winner or rights holder in this case will be high.

Costly to engineer? Like how Kugel Komponents made a bolt-in RWD, V8 Focus? Honestly, I think doing a IRS rear is easier than a straight, considering that the IRS rear is already set up. Recast new knuckles, relocate the springs (if needed) and make a mount for the transaxle. Add CV joints. You're right. GM can't engineer themselves out of a wet paper bag. I don't know what we were thinking, expecting too much from the company that made the GTO, the GNX, the Corvette... then made the Solstice mostly out of the spare parts bin. A small battery bump would be nice, but many AWD vehicles don't get bigger engines. The same power is being used, its just being sent to the wheel that is currently getting traction. I only think a small battery bump would be nice to negate the increased weight. It is not that GM can't engineer this. The question is how many Cadlillac EVs are you going to sell and how much will it cost to make this happen? Second is RWD EV goin to increase sales that much with this kind of buyer?

No it WON'T. Unless their is a MAJOR development which reduces the need for lithium, or we discover Greenland is a huge lithium deposit, lithium will remain expensive. We only recently learned of a large deposit, and its in Afghanistan... so we're going to be making a new group of tin-pot dictators into a major player and battery prices will fluctuate depending on their mood. Saying that advances will make the batteries cheaper is like saying in 1974 that advances will make catalytic converters cheaper. Well, aside from one advancement (going from pellet to mesh), cats have gotten more expensive... because platinum is still very rare. Luckily, lithium is not nearly as rare as platinum... but it also has more competition for its use. Only 23% becomes batteries. Plus there is mounting evidence that increasing lithium production is not ecologically sound. Granted, this chart does not cover 2009-2011, but I assure you, the prices have not plummeted. My statment was not just batteries but motors and all other parts in the system that are expensive today due to start up cost and low volume. With higher volumes the price will drop on these parts with compitition and voulume.; Yes the Battery is the most expensive part and who's is to say future power will be Lithium 10 years from now? Demand is high for a cheaper more efficent power system and not just in the auto segment. This means a lot of investment is being made here and someone will find other options in time. There is a lot of interesting work going on right now in this area and many are showing great promise.

That is just it I don't think this system is to the point they can just move it how ever they want. In time they will be able too with better motors and more autonomy of the motors. The skateboard is what I think they would like to work up to in the future but the technology is just not here yet. If it was they would already be doing it. As for the AWD I would think this will come with better batteries. It would be a natural. Just if they did it now it would add weight and cut the range more than in half. Once they crack the Battery issue to where it is longer lasting and faster charging things will have limits and ICE to help. Too bad the space program is not in full gear as this would help in development. Here at the NASA Glen Center they have done a lot of power systems for the space programs but they are really cut back right now.

That is just it there is one connection in this system, The ICE is connected to a ring gear that kicks in when the electric engines don't have power. They work with each other, Here is how it is explained .Andrew Farah, the Volt's Chief Engineer explaining the whole process. Put simply, there is a mechanical connection between the ICE and the drivetrain, but it is not being called a "direct" mechanical connection as it only works in concert with torque from the electric motors. There are "situations where we will take mechanical torque from the engine," according to Farah, but there is no arbitrary speed restriction. It's "based on the efficiency map" and is related not to speed, but overall torque in the system. The ring gear will turn the ring gear that the electric motors turns once they get weak. So while it is not direct it still has a physical connection at this point with the way the system is linked. It is kind of like coinjoined twins. It is two different systems but there is still alink. You can not just put the electric motors in the back and not keep the link. At some point they may be able to do this but as the system stands now. This was what the argument was about last spring. GM said it has a link but it is not direct but it is still linked. This is where some of the anti GM people wanted to say it really was not a full electric car. GM likes to seee it as two full idependent systems but with two links that come in contact with each other. In other words the transaxle, electic motors and ICE all have to remain in a package as it is in the Volt at this point in development. They are cojoined but work independently. But I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, I agree with you. Just the system is today and what I understand from what GM has explained it is not as easy as just moving the electric motors to the rear hubs yet. The next system upgrade to this may make it that easy then.

Knowing the Fiero program from the inside well it is neither as cheap or easy to do this right with a gas engine let alone with a electric set up on a car never intended for RWD. There were so many things wrong with the Fiero and moving the A body driveline to the back. I would love to see a RWD Caddy but I feel it would be better if they wait and do this right with a car designed to do this. I mean how many of these cars are you going to sell in the first place and the cost to make it RWD is much greater than you think. Just the amount of money to redesign the rear suspension on the 88 Fiero was in the millions and they did not even have to move the engine again. That was in 1985-86 money and today it would be greater. I think they should work more on the Volt MPV. It I think would sell much better than even the sedan. Also before thew Cadillac comes out add more range and power. Lets face it to make this car a Cadillac it will add on the pounds even with the FWD system let alone doing some RWD system. RWD is the right Idea but I think it is the wrong time and platform to do it. Base it on the Alpha coupe and do it right.

Noting is cheap at this point but the more they make and advance these systems the price will drop. As for the problem with the battery we need to know more about what happened and what they are doing to change it. Also was the onstar hooked up and did GM even know these cars were sitting crashed? Was it the NHTSA not letting GM dischage the batteries or did GM not respond or did they even know? There are many unanswered questions and from what has been stated GM seems to have a way to deal with the batteries if they know or respond. The question is why was it not discharged?

I am all for a RWD Electric at some point but at this point the Volt set up is not an easy or cheap fix. Remember the direct connection to the driveline is still there. The one some tired to make a big deal about. I think as they go they can do this and do it right but just not with what they have to work with right now. Development cost are high enough and there are issues still to be improved. Perfect the system and then modify it later. Keep in mind this car is not going to be Tesla or FIsker priced. A later model more then likely will be and then it will require a similar driveline. That is if Fisker and Tesla are still around.