hyperv6

The Cruze is even in the Eco form is a pleasant car. I can only imagine the extra work and money will have a most positive effect on the new engines. GM has already made Wards to engine list several times with the 2.0 Turbo I can imagine it will only improve it's standing with the improvments on NHV.

Although I agree with your post in general terms, perhaps a detuned 2.0L turbo could do the base engine job? Lose a little margin on that base model's sales for some gain in brand image? Just a thought... We have a detuned version in the 220 already and the present engine is not even close to the max of what it could do yet. This engine is safe to 400 HP with no mods to the internals at this point. That is per GM's Eco performance book. Rods and Pistons can take it even farther up with little issue. Millen ran a 500 HP Solstice the entire drift season and one the championship with no tear downs. That was even on E85. GM has shown how simple the build on that engine was. While we may not see a 500 HP factory engine I feel a Eco in the 300 plus range is not far off. the day were 200 plus for a base 4 will be the norm and 300 plus will be an option on many cars.

I can help answer that to some degree. The 2.5 will have about 40% lower radiated noise compared to the 2.4 liter Ecotec The 2.5's refinement tuning focuses particularly on low frequency noise below 2 KHz, giving the engine a more refined, more metallic note. The 2.5 features an isolated fuel injection system and an acoustic absorbing cover to mute the Direct Injection clatter The 2.5 uses a structural valve cover, oil pan and front cover to increase engine stiffness and reduce lower frequency acoustics The 2.5 uses a new silent chain drive featuring an inverted toothed chain The new 2.0T basically uses the 2.5 liter block, but has bore reduced from 88 to 86 mm for strength, and stroke reduced from 101 to 86 mm giving a 2.0 liter displacement. It also features a head integrated exhaust collector instead of 4 exhaust ports designed specifically to accommodate the turbocharger. In otherwords, the "new" 2.0T is basically the 2.5 in terms of the designed in refinement enhancing features -- apart from the natural benefits of having a shorter stroke which reduces vibrations exponentially. I know I have read all this before. My point is that many here are making unfounded claims on an engine they have not driven yet. But thanks for the back up. This shows this is not just a simple rehash of an engine and we should expect a large improvment on a already good engine.

Well, nah, I'm pretty sure just the one body style. The guys on GMI are drooling over some Impala coupe illustrations someone did, but it's never gonna happen. I agree on the Impala. I just ment that they would offer AWD, engines and etc other items on the car not available at the start. While we may not get a SS it could get a RS treatment. Though a turbo LNF AWD would be of interest. Too bad it would run the price out of the Impala range and would be better suited for a Buick price. I really don't see a coupe here doing well. Now in the Malibu class it still would not out sell the sedan but a think a coupe would do ok.

Ok just a question here. Who has driven the new 2.5? How much HP and torque will it have in the Cadillac? How much refinement will it show with the major investment GM is putting into it. How much more power or different will the RWD version be from say a FWD Buick? My point is we here know little to nothing on this engine or the plans Cadillac has for this drivetrain. It might help to see the whole plan before we start the sky falling. At one time having 4 cylinders as the kiss of death for even a Chevy. It ment you had a bottom feeder car with 110 HP if you were lucky and most time you only got 90 HP. Today that has changed. 4 cylinders now are starting over 200 HP NA and more will be over 300 HP with a turbo. THey will be found in high line cars and most of the public will not have an issue with them. We are now entering a second generation of buyers that most grew up with only 4 cylinders and many of them yet today have only driven 4 cylinders. Lets face it they have sold a hell of a lot of Nissans, Hondas and Toyotas and very few if any had a V8. Today people look to power and economy not cylinder count. If Cadillac has repsectable performance it will matter little what is under the hood. I just get the feeling the 2.5 whole not a perfomance motor will be more than acceptable to many buyers. Also I get the feeling the 2.0 Turbo may get more than 270 HP. GM has often anounced on HP only to up it more by release time. The Turbo 2.0 should present a fine performance car with a V model still coming. I will be the first to say the 2.5 could be a turd but at this point we have no reason to praise or condem it as we don't even know what it is yet.

This is something that many I think forget about. We have yet to see where all this is going. We have more body styles and options to come as GM has made it clear we will not get all packages at the same time anymore as they will spread them out. I feel a little disapointed GM has taken the Malibu farther at the intro than they have. I think they should have advanced it a little more than they have. But I keep in mind there is a lot more to come and hope they keep it coming at a steady rate to keep this car viable. I felt the same way about the Cruze when it first came out too but the public has responed in a much greater way and I find that the car is a lot better than I first expected. I expected good but once I drove it I found it was really good for what it is suppost to be.

You are part right. But here is the difference. Years ago you bought a chevy and the only difference was the trim and body style of one model, unless you bought a truck or Vette. One model had to do it all. Today you are correct to a point as we normally see 3 models LS, LT and LTZ. These for the most are just trim packages to make it cheaper to sell and build the cars. Here is where things change now. Today we get more than one model and 3 trim levels of each. But with Chevy it has the key roll yet to be the value leader and the car that gives a lot for the money. While it will get some good things it will always lack some things that only will be seen on Buick and Cadillac. We can' expect todays cars to fit slots for cars from years ago as the market has changes, the cars have changes and the customers have changed. So in the end while your right there is more to it but in the end if you want more buy a Cadillac.

Folks this car is not the second coming of a sports sedan killer. This is a Chevy that is to provide a lot of car for the money. It will not be RWD like a ATS and it will not be as quiet and have as many standard options as a Lacrosse but it will be a damn good car for the money. If anyone want more car they can move up to the Buick and Cadilla. While this car will compete on the low end Taurus it will not with the high end. Ford has to make due with one car over a wide price range whole GM has the luxury of two cars to cover this market. Odds are that most Impalas will be V6 cars since the Malibu will handle most of the 4 cylinder sales. The 2.5 will cover base model requirements and the Turbo should offer an option for a few more MPG while still having good power. I also expect a LTZ model but no SS if they remain in keeping like they have with the other models. At this point GM has a plan but has yet to tell us anything on it yet. We will know more in time. The V8 will go to the Holden based SS model that will show up after the new Vette get the DI V8. It will be limited and expensive. I suspect priced in the Taurus SHO range or the GXP range of the old G8. Chevy is looking to dominate the sedan market in this country not just the sport sedan market. This car as well as it's siblings will do just that. The Cruze has shown that the public likes it and is willing to pay a little more for more of a car. I suspect the Malibu and Impala will also offer this in class. GM while sharing parts will tune these cars in Luxury, quiet and performace a little different to set them apart. If anything I see the Chevys coming as a very good car with the Buicks and Cadillacs moving up in quality and luxury from where they are at now. The new Lacrosse they just showed a step up in quality and I feel points to where they want to go. The Impala needs to appeal to a wide group so I suspect we will have more versions of it than the other cars. It will have to appeal to Farmers as much as the family buyers. It will also still have to retain the ability to service fleet sales as this will remain part of Chevys line. While rentals make little money city fleets still show profit and if the car can help them keep cost down they will buy it. The main thing we need to see is what all versions of the 2.5 we will get along with the other improved Eco engines we have yet to see. These are questions that can not be debted yet since we really have no info on them other than they will be better and more quiet.

Did they benchmark the S/C 3800 for that engine? Maybe GM should bring it back. Like the W body let the old girl go. I may be the only one here that owns a 3.6, 2.0 Turbo and a Series III 3800 SC and have them in the garage right now. All are good engines but age has taken over the 3800. Like the W body the 3800 SC has done it 's job but is well past the time it should have been asked of it and needed to be put to rest. We will see engines get smaller but power will be as good and better than the engines they replace. Turbo's will be offered on almost all models in some form.

It is clear they call it a Turbocharged engine vs NA because it is built to a higher standard. The engine has a forge crank, Stronger block andf head, Sodium valves, Forged Rods, Upgraded pistons, better oiling, etc The stock NA pistons are good to 250 HP the LNF are good to 400 HP. The LNFstock head gasket is good to 500 HP, rockers till 700 HP, head casting well over 900 HP over. I could go on but I think the point is made. The point is the Turbo engine is not just a NA engine with a turbo slapped on. The LNF was upgraded and built with the intent to take more stress and provide more power reliably. GM learned their lesson with the old 3.8Turbo and that you can't cheap out and just bolt on a Turbo and expect it to last. Today they are building these engines to a higher standard that has proven reliable and effective for many many miles. Many of the HHR SS and Cobalts are already seeing well over 100,000 miles with no issues. The argument you have in favor of the 3.6 is that it is a more quiet engine as long as you don't rev it. But to get it to go you do need to rev it. We will soon see a Turbo Vs coming too. The fact is it will be a engine designed and engineered to deal with the stresses of a Turbcharger. The bottom line as long as an engine is designed, built to deal with the extra power and stress of a turbo there is no issue. GM in the past has done many things right like the SBC but they also have under engineered and taken short cuts on many engines and paid the price for it. The Vega liners, Olds Diesels, early 3.38 Turbo engines. the OHC Turbo, Quad 4, Turbo 301, The cross fire injection, etc. From what I have seen with their new engines they have so far shown they have learned and are not repeating the same under built engines as they did in the past. Add to this the better oils, oiling systems and cooling systems we have today and technology has also made them all less of an issue. These engines are warrantied for 100,000 miles and are not the time bombs they once were. I only have seen a issue with some service departments not able to deal with some of the new Turbo systems do to the lack of training. My dealer has several techs that are dedicated to Turbo gas and Diesel engines and has been A1 in service.

With sales as they are the public as a whole never had a problem with the 2.4. The coming 2.5 will only make them better.

Gee a good observation of a car we do not know really anything about yet. Once we know the weight, HP and other factors then we can make such claims. None of us here should rush to judgment here before we get all the facts. Just because they will offer a 2.5 does not mean they will build many unless there is demand. What many here fail to remember is what they just anounced is only part of the story on this car. Their statment does not cover all the variations we will see in body or powertrain. Buick did not give us the Regal Turbo and GS till after the intro. Time to not get overly dramatic and let GM lay all the cards out and let us see them before we praise or condem this car. I suspect based on the cars GM has done of late it will fit into the market well and not disapoint as its line expands. Even the critics are finding it hard to bash GM on their new products. This car is a Cadillac sedan that will be able to be optioned as an affordable luxury car or a Sports Sedan. Years ago GM offered a Chevelle with everything from a I 6 to a 396 the public optioned them as they likes. The I 6 for the most was a slow seller but still people liked that option and some took it. It is nice GM is offering more than just 2 engines and letting the people choose. It comes down to the point if you don't want a 2.5 then just don't buy it. Check off the V6 or turbo and be happy. Or you can wait for the other options to come. This is going to be an entry level Cadillac so a base 2.5 should be expected. Not every buyer of this car is expecting or wants a M series killer. I had expected the 2 ton Nox to be a slug with the 2.4 in it only to find it was a engine package that would make most very happy with performance and MPG. It may not be a race car but it is enough to make most buyers happy. Just count the tail pipes and most on the road today are not dues with a V6.

You leave the XTS as it is and create a RWD to go beyond it. Cadillac needs more than 3 cars.

Lets see we have not see the car, we have not driven the car, we have not sat in the car, we don't even know the HP ratings, we also don't even know the weight and we don't even know if it has e Assist? That sure sounds like enough info to kill this combo before it even gets here. The eAssist addition does not make a car a V series but it will not kill handling and performance based on the GM cars that have it. If anything the weight may be even more balanced. I own a 3.6 V6 and a 2.0 turbo........No stress. In fact the turbo has less stress as it does not have to rev near as much to make the power the 3.6 does. The turbo has enough low end torque that I only need to rev it when I need too. The 3.6 I need to rev it to make the power as it has much less low end. Yes the Turbo make more HP per piston but the LNF also has much better parts and oiling system to better handle the power and stress. What may be tough on one engine will not effect one that is built to handle the greater needs. GM and Lotus did a great job on the upgrades of the LNF. GM did not just bolt on a Turbo as this engine shares little in most parts with the other Eco engines.

I think with the large trunck in the Cruze and the larger trunk in the Malibu the new Impala will not suffer from a small trunk. I just hope the interior is less claustrophobic than the Taurus is to me. It has a large interior but you feel closed in with the dash and console as they are in that car. I just hope the trunk lid on the new Impala is a little longer so you can get something into the trunk. Too many cars today have a large trunk with a short lid and it make it impossible to get many taller boxes in between the rear window and the lift over. My GP trunk suck for getting items into it. I have often had to unbox items in parking lots to get them in.

The price will go up some as the present car is so discounted now it is similar in price to the Malibu. I see the new Impala being more than the Malibu but will only go as high as a low end to mid end Lacrosse. You can't really compare it to the Taurus for price as Ford uses the Taurus as their Impala and Lacrosse. It's price goes from below $30K to more than than $40K for the SVO. Keep in mind GM also has the RWD sports sedan Chevy/Holden/G8 coming to fight the SVO. That will take care of the high end. I expect as Buick and Cadillac come out with new product and start to build a new customer base they will all increase a little in price and content. This will spread them out and give all of them more room. THey just can't do this yet with the old CTS, Lacrosse and other older models yet. The new car will improve to the point people will not hedge as much to spend more. THe Cruze is a good example. Also they will have other cars to fall back on like the Verano and Malibu if they can not pony up the extra money. It is sad but the average price of a new car is now over $30K. It is just the cost of buying new, Are you kidding me. Those overhangs when parked right onto the curb looked like an innocent child placing his chin on the side of the table. They were design standards now emulated by the SL. It is end of GM with end of W body. It is like taking the heart away from a human. GM is dead. I am going to buy Hyundai Sonata Turbo (after I buy all models of W bodies - twice, need parts cars) Well if you want a clean Comp G see me this summer and I will make you a good deal.

I agree the 2.5 is there to serve as a low ball price car for marketing. It will also serve well overseas where most people have no issue with small engines like this. As for power we have yet to see much on the improvments they have planned for the new Eco engine line. 200 HP should not be a hard market to hit. As for the V6 rating the exhaust has often been pointed to as the difference. Or like the Camaro engine it had the extra power but GM listed it lower. For all we know they may all be the same in the RWD cars but they just add and subtract a few HP to make it look different. We should be seeing the Turbo DI VVT V6 engines soon. These should prove to be interesting.

I hope he is kidding! I will have a 04 W Comp G for sale I hope by next summer. While it was a good car and I enjoyed it The car really shows the warts and short cominging of past GM work wehn compared to some of the just revent products. Just the interior alone along with the noise from the engine show the gains in refinement GM has made in the last few years. The W body like the Model T served their duty well but their time has come and gone. The new Impala if priced right will be a hit and will draw in new customers to GM and lessen the need for non profit fleet pricing on the Impala. I see the Cruze. New Malibu and New Impala as a strong line up that should do well in todays market.

The Hyundai is not an issue since this will not be the highest powered engine in this car as time moves on. This turbo is more like the 220 Turbo in the Regal. It is the better engine not the best to be offered. As for tranny GM does transmissions better than anyone. I am sure this car will be right no matter if it has 6-8 or 10 gears. Many of their six speeds now most people could not tell what gear they are in as they as so smooth. Even my 6 speed in the Malbu will suprise me on where it is at when I pull it into manual.

The 2.0 is not by any means stressed with the torque it will have. It will perform fine and run well into the six figures in miles with no issue. It is only now going to be in platform that it deserves.

I like what I see so far. Even with the Camao it looks like a Chevy so far. The interior looks great from what I can see. With the age of the old car the new car will look like a major jump forward to the public. Good Job Chris!.

The Turbo will finally get a chassis that will let it show what it can really do. I now really don't expect a V8 in the V but I still expect a lot of power.

I just hope they can make this truck take a bigger leap forward and market the hell out of it. Fords truck has made some big changes and people have responded to the marketing hype they have used to promote it. If GM just does evolutionary changes it will be hard to excite people over them. I really thing the market is open for some new things in pick ups and they are expecting them now.

I really don't see it as much of a risk as this once would have been, The V6 in this class is not a common engine. I own a new Malibu now with the 3.6 and look for others out there as I see few. they are wasy to pick out as they are the Malibus with 18" wheels and two tail pipes only on LTZ and LT2 models. I find most have the smaller tires and one tail pipe telling what engine they have. Second when more people get behind the wheel of the Turbo they will find it a better engine than the NA Eco most are buying. While it may be down on power the DI Turbo has more bottom end since they part the Torque starting at the low end and hold it the whole way. My 3.6 has good power but it just does not have the pull feeling my Turbo engine has. The 3.6 feels more like the Northstar where the power comes on later and higher in the revs. Now if this was an Impala replacment I would see an issue with no V6 option. Not we have heard little cry of the lack of 6 cylinders in the Regal. At that price point I would think they would have had more demand there. As long as the V6 is offered as an option in the Impala they will be fine.

I agree as I see this as a way for them to remain independent too. If they did not partner up with others they would have to sell out and become a part of a larger company like Rolls, Bently, Aston and Jag. BMW has money but not the kind to do it all like in th past. They can not foot the expense and cost of many things alone anymore.