hyperv6

Torano was a dream in a bucket in 2004. Times and priorities have changed. We may see something like it but there are greater needs. That show car came at a time the Alpha was only an idea and not much more, Reality and time can change priorities. The Impala and XTS will take this platform to the next level but how many times should a company evolve a platform before it is replaced. the W body is a good example. While was imporved it was far from world class. Owned the best and last W version and while it was a good car I do not miss it in any way. The warts still stick out on that car compared to other vehicles GM and other have done. That is one platform that should never have gone more than 12-15 years, And that is a streach. The Alpha when shared globally with several lines [since it can be adapted to several very different cars] can be done at lower volumes. Also the fact Cadillac did much of the investment it will help the others have a better car with less investment. We now need to look at total volume of platforms on a global basis not market basis.

GM does not have a history of cost overruns and mistakes? Sorry, I like watching companies that make silk purses out of sow's ears... like Holden... or even Dodge during the dark days when it was that the Magnum was not going to cover the Intrepid, and Dodge got the Charger out in short time. Last I checked, GM outsourced plenty of parts, so GM is no island. Tremec, CPI and A123Systems come immediately to mind. Sorry they may have good cars but they were far from Silk purses. Everyone in the industry has turned to part suppliers. What I speak of is where an Auto mfg goes to another auto mfg to buy parts they built for them. The only cases I recall here is where Ford help fund the transmission GM built for them to share. But that was another case where GM did most of the work and got paid to do it then used the tranny for themselves. Also the Honda V6 in the Saturn but I suspect that was a desperate attempt to attract buyers at a time Saturn was dying.

The engine has been gone through and is improved in most areas. It is not like they just bolted in the same 2.0 from my HHR. Note the imvestment in the Ecotec plant and that was part of the time it too. Also you know full well that 4-5 years is normal. Much of Toyota, Honda and VW are evolution changes Honda and Toyota if anything should take a year more in styling alone.

right back to the "It should not take this long!!!!" like a moth to a flame... ATS is here in 4 model years since BK. How much faster do you want it? I know... we can download it on our iPad.... 4 years for an entirely new car on and entirely new platform is lightning speed. I'm not sure that there are any other companies out there with that kind of schedule going... and to a degree that worries me about the ATS. Omega platform didn't get the green light till about 18 months after BK and we'll be seeing the beginnings of that in late 2013 (or we possibly could have already with the Ciel) I really believe a few here do not understand the scope of the work that is going on with the lack of leaks. Also I don't think a few understand the cost of programs like Alpha, the Trucks large and small, The Omega and the electric car programs cost in dollars and man power take to do all at one time. In this day and age few companies can take on the amount of development going on at GM right now. Most anymore have to share platforms, do joint partnerships, pay others to develope technology or sell out to another company just to keep alive. GM is doing more than just about any car company out there on their own. While other struggle like Mazda and Mitsubishi to remain alive and others like cash flush BMW still have to pay companies like GM or ZF to design transmissions, GM for the most is doing it on their own. Outside VW and Toyota or Fiat few companies have the strength to take on as much as GM. Even Honda could not afford to do everyting GM is doing at this moment.

What products on sale during the BK (2009) will still be offered, virtually unchanged in 2020?!? GM needs to get things right on the next product cycle, not take 2-3 overhauls to catch up. If GM can't forecast four years out and make competitive cars, they aren't going to be fixed in 2020... or in 2040, 2200, 2240 or 24022. The way GM is doing better business is to have blown off its legacy costs, of ~$6000 per car. Olds, nobody here thinks you download a new car/platform/engine/trans like an iPhone app. But we want GM to speed up the process because they have the technology and parts to fill holes, and yet only sell them overseas. By the time the ATS rolls into lots, Alpha will have been souring GM's RWD plans for 5 years... when does the next Alpha drop? Maybe the 130R? Maybe a 2016 Camaro? Critics will have some issue with the Alpha... too small, too large, too heavy, too flexible, won't pass 2016 impact regs, etc. Next thing you know, Alpha is declared obsolete by GM engineers and nothing else gets built on it and its successor... Alpha2 doesn't see the light of day until 2021. This is the fate of Sigma, Kappa and Zeta. Right now Alpha has two products depending on it... GM seems like it will only take a platform seriously if 4-5 major car lines are using it. Unfortunately, GM no longer has the brands to push 4-5 medium-to-small RWD vehicles. I don't think anyone expects GM to create the perfect platform... since in a world of changing priorities, its a moving target... so GM needs to get over it and start building cars and brands with some real equity and stop playing with vaporware and unobtainium. Come on you are smart enough to figure this one out. You know damn well the cars that were sold during the 2008-2009 will not be around but the cars under development during that time will still have a presents near 2020. The Malibu is a bit dated as it was mostly done a few years back. The new Impala and XTS roots are from the Lacrosse that was developed back before the money crunch. You are also smart enough to under to understand the SIgma and Zeta are much like a RWD W body in a sense. They are both platforms with hard points developed on the fly during times when money was not readily available. Corners were cut and these cars while good cars were never what was intended by the engineers. At this point it would be better to pull a clean sheet of paper and do it right this time but that takes time and money. Also basing GM's Future on what we all know right now is a fools folly. Todays GM does not lead the public with bits of knowledge 5 years down the road as they once did. Who here suspected the 130R would show up at Detroit this year? Who here knows what all GM has planned? No one thats talking. As for the comment on GM not having a any divisions to push small RWD cars and why would you need 4-5 North American divsions to do it in todays global market? Small RWD would sell well in Europe under Opel, Vauxhall or Chevy. It would also sell well as a Chevy rebadged as a Holden as much of their line up is today. Also they may find niches in China and Korea.

It is not so much they did not have any money they just did not have enought to fix all that was wrong. If you have only so much jam you have to spread it thin to cover the piece of toast. Too many models and too many brands wasted the money and just did not provide the return on the dollar spent. Like it or not the truth is the truth and you can just wish it away by not speaking of it. Again GM did not go belly up in the last few years, it took years to do so with failed or weak product that the public just did not want or like. They can't keep using the BR and past mistakes as excuses forever..they have to execute and build a range of world-class competitive models that sell....they do seem to be making progress w/ some models.. They have not gotten to all the models yet. Many of the new models we have recently gotten were done before the chapter 11 and put on a shelf till they had money to put them into production. This way they were not like Chrysler and without new much new product for several years. The first of the real new stuff is the ATS, Corvette and the new trucks. The XTS, Sonic, Malibu, ZL1 etc were all pretty much along before the money ran out. While all the new product is better much of the improvments are due to Lutz changing the rules at GM to get some of the needed changes they needed. To get all of the changes many will take new platforms like the Alpha to get the new product to where it fully needs to be. GM is big but not big enough to fix everything in 4 years. I have said for a long time it will take till 2020 or abouts to fix most of the products at GM. With the new CAFE it may take even longer. In either case it will be improved and the way GM is doing buisness now it improved so that should have an effect on old and new product combined. The bottom line is GM has a lot more work to do as they still have a lot of things to fix and they will be the first to state this.

That is a politcal ploy for independent votes nothing more.

Wait, GM in the 1980s when they ahd 40% domestic market share, and were the largest corporation in the world, didn't have any money? But Daimler-Benz had over $1 billion to spend on a redesign of the S-class and Toyota had $1 billion to spend on the Lexus LS400? How did they afford it? 'Didn't have any money' has been the standard excuse for GM for decades...time to drop it. It is not so much they did not have any money they just did not have enought to fix all that was wrong. If you have only so much jam you have to spread it thin to cover the piece of toast. Too many models and too many brands wasted the money and just did not provide the return on the dollar spent. Like it or not the truth is the truth and you can just wish it away by not speaking of it. Again GM did not go belly up in the last few years, it took years to do so with failed or weak product that the public just did not want or like.

Wait, GM in the 1980s when they ahd 40% domestic market share, and were the largest corporation in the world, didn't have any money? But Daimler-Benz had over $1 billion to spend on a redesign of the S-class and Toyota had $1 billion to spend on the Lexus LS400? How did they afford it? GM nearly closed Pontiac in the early 80's because they may have been large but they were losing money. Then they also turned Olds Buick and Cadillac into basically one car division. GM spent a lot of money but they were not making it back. They did not just go belly up in 2008 it took a lot of time to blow the reserves.

The Taurus is available w/ AWD. Don't know if the new Avalon or Azera will be though.. And how much is the AWD Taurus? Most AWD Taurus are SVO's and are well over $40K Sticker. If you charge that much for an Implala you may as well get a ATS or even better yet a CTS.

The bottom line is the price point of an Impala would go beyond what most would pay for a Chevy. If there was not already a Buick or Cadillac that offered it I could see it. But with the other cars who here would pay near or over $40K for a AWD Impala? Once you get to $40K there are too many other good choices for just a little more and I am sorry I see few sain people here that would pay what it would take to get one. This is another one of those things a few cry for it but even less would pay the price.

First point is true, the XTS is another bridge, but GM has had that mentality for 30 years. Why didn't Cadillac start working on a flagship in the 80s when Lexus did with the LS400? Or why not in the early 2000s when they decided to launch Sigma? Cadillac needs to bring their future to the present ASAP. What segment wants a huge FWD luxury car? The 1,000 people that bought an MKS last month, most of which are all wheel drive, those few dozen non-fleet DTS buyers last year. There are only 3 front wheel drive cars with a base price over $40,000: the A6 2.0T, MKS and XTS. Cadillac did not work on a flag ship in the 80's because they had little money to do it right and they had little credibility to sell a true flagship. The STS was the first step in the right direction. Even Lexus while it sold a car well the LS 400 is still not considered a class leading car. Even Mr Toyda agress with this. Just because you don't want a FWD Cadillac does not mean it will not sell. I just detailed a DTS today and the owner would buy another in a heartbeat. I hate the car and it is everything I hate in a car but I am open minded enough to understand I am not the target of this car. The people that are are willing to pay money for it. Also in play is the fact the XTS was pretty much done by the time GM went into chapter 11. If they did not use this car it would have been money wasted and time lost till a new car was ready. Finally you need to get you butt behind the wheel of many of these cars you diss and understand the FWD in you mind is not what is being built now. An informed opinion is a lot easier for us to take seriously. The XTS will be very able and willing to do wha it is call to do. This car is not an AMG or M series fighter but will be a very able luxury car that will do the job well. There is more than one kind of car in this class and there is a market for this car to bring in money. Lincoln on the other hand really has done a weak job of just rebadges that really offer little for the big jump in money. The difference between Caddy and Lincoln is night and day even with Cadillac still needing work. Finally this is not the flagship and never was going to be one. The proper car for the job is coming and this one will keep the cash flow going as Cadillac needs more than two cars and a bunch of trucks.

To market a Luxury car you can not use a Economy name. This would be like Chevy selling a Cadillac Flagship like car for $100,000. Most everyone but Hyundai and VW have learned that even a car with shared platforms need to have their own line and their own dealers. The Corvette is one of the few vehicles that can get away with the econo label. Even though they are sold at a Chevy dealer they are more a Corvette first then they are a Chevy Second anymore. Also they are still seen as the economy SuperCar. The XTS is the bridge to the future of Cadillac. The car is going to be the missing link to bridge those older buyers to the more modern higher priced cars. The future of Cadillac will lower volume models with higher profits. The XTS is the one remaining line that will incorperate the past of volume but with many features of the new Cadillac which will be sold in volume. Also this car will be sold as a higher volume fleet car and it will take the hit for resale for the rest of the line. Just look at the resale value of the Town Car. It did no service to those who bought the car that were not in fleet sales. In fact the Town Car was a bargin on the used car lots as you got a lot of car for the money used. Better that the one model is focused on volume and profit while the rest of the line is focused on lower volume higher quality cars as many of the German lines that are imported here. In Germany they have higher volume lines that see a lot of fleet sales but we never see that here. Like wise if Caddy goes back to Europe the XTC may not make the trip but cars like the ATC and coming CTS will along with the low volume flagship. Too many Americans have no clue that the Imports from Germany make a lot of more basic models and many see use as Police vehicles and taxis. These are the cars we never see here as over here they would like to protect their image. The fact is many car companies in this global market will be seen differently and marketed differently around the world. Some have been doing this for a long time some will need to learn Also there is a segment in this market that still wants a FWD car. Agree with them or not there are those buyers who want this. As for handling and performance it would be a little short sighted to think this car will not be a confident handling and riding car. Will it cut a 7 min lap at the ring? No! Will it drive and handle much like a normal luxury car with a good ride? Yes! I can see a couple here have no clue on where GM is at with the state of FWD and have never driven one of the new cars they offer and found that in some it has become more and more difficult to tell what wheels are driven unless you really tax the driveline. Most in the general public will never tell what end of the XTC is driven. The XTS will do fine and will provide much for Cadillac over the long haul. I do not see the XTS as a upgraded Buick or Chevy as much as the the new Impala is a lower grade Cadillac. This is how Chevy wanted to be seen in the late 50's and it sold a lot of cars.

If they would add AWD to this car it would drive the price of an Impala to where few would pay. The Buick and Cadillac will both offer it and anyone willing to pay that much will just move to them. An AWD systme would drive the Impala LTZ to over $40. while it looks to be a winner of a car few people will go for a 300 HP AWD sedan at that price point. It is kind of like the Regal. where the Opel OPC offered a Turbo V6 and Haldex AWD but it was at a price over $50,000. While I would have loved to have seen the car come here as it was in Europe I suspect few would have been sold at a similar high price here. The GS is already a slow go on price even at the out the door price of $33K. I know what you can get one for as we just priced one when we bought our new car. Right now AWD is not cheap on a SHO but it also offers a performance model the Impala will not be offered in. The RWD Sport Sedan will take care of that As a resident of one of the areas that gets above normal snow in the winter few people here clamor for AWD. While they are sold here they are not as common as some would like to think. Where my inlaws are from in the Moutains out of state they make do with FWD and RWD too unless they do a lot of off roading. We opted out on AWD on out Terrain as the wife saw no need as she gets around find. I found the extra $1700, extra weignt and less MPG for somthing we did not care for as a waste of money in our case. Now if I lived on a long driveway out in the country I may think different but even on the large hills here I have yet in 34 years of driving not made it where I was going yet, Note I do not even use snow or ice tires as most in this area. Note too most people here work for the tire companies and they only use all seasons too. The greatest issue here is the great number of people on worn out tires. The lack of AWD on the Implala is not an issue. I do see a lack of an engine in the 200-300 HO range as an issue. I would like to at least see a mid range Turbo 4. There is just too much of a gap between the 4 and the V6.

That is one thing with my work is I have gotten to meet and work with some of the ledgends of the racing and performance industry. It is kind of cool to go to work and find some people you never thought you would never meet at your desk sit in a meeting with them. Bill was one of the special ones. It is amazing to grow up seeing these guys and then getting paid to work and hang out with them. Another one of his cars was around here. A about 12 miles from me restored Bills Vega Pro Stock. He would load it up on a trailer and bring it to our local Cruize in. He has sold it a while ago and it has traded hand a few more times. It amazes me the car we have in this area.

He really was a cool guy. We had him as a customer at work. What is really cool is the old Dave Strickter Old Reliable II 62 Chevy that won the US National and Winter National in 1962 is owned locally here. I have seen the car on street driven in full restored race trim. The guy who owns it bought it because it was a 409 Chevy but found the lettering when he started to sand the body. It is cool to see it and hear it with open pipes on the highway. Th Local cops know him and look the other way. Bought the book Grumpys Toys and was hoping to run into him again to get him to sign it. Too bad I will never get the chance.

The price is where the town car left off and the livery guys will be all over this. I suspect the MPG will be greater and operating cost will be down from the Town Car. I saw where the Spark EV is reached 65% calibration. Word is they hope to get at least a reliable 80 miles or more per charge. The other Major goal is accurate readings on how many miles the car has left in it. The big complaint with the leaf and other EV cars are the reading of one so many miles left only to find it comes up short. GM hopes to avoid that. It will go into production they hope the first quarter 2013.

I have seen the XTS in person and the new color still gives me a new look and show up body features the darker color just hide. As for AWD MPG. That is a tough nut to crack. The added weight and added drag on the drivetrain is difficult to over come. Simple physics are in play and while they have made it better it is difficult to improve either of these things unless they go electric motors at each wheel. We have a 650 HP Lingenfleter power [The engine was built by John himself] AWD 32 Ford at work. The car was one of the first 0-60 in 3 seconds tested by Car And Driver. 0-100 was fast too but after that it drops off fast. The 1/4 mile times with the front drive shaft removed were almost a second and a half faster in RWD and two slicks. It was almost 12 sec with the driveshaft in and just cracking into the 10's with out. The drive line was a ZR1 Rear suspension and a GMC Syclone front drive with Indy style inboard Coil over suspension. Even with a car this light it still took over 150 HP just to drive the front drive system. As for the different Link systems. Right now they are all pretty much the same. I hope with the different names they start to offer different options with each one to set them appart. Also it would entice people to the Buic, GMC and Cadillac if they offer more on their link systems. I love our GMC touch screen. GM did a great job and it has really worked well with our phones and other items. I found I could pull up the Dish Network on my phone with my Sling device and then play the audio through the car system. I can see the many things that could be done. I am hoping GM offers free Firmware upgrades like Apple so we can add new features and adapt to new technology. With the USB port I should be able to plug in the lap top and down load in items if they have it set up that way.

To me the XTS looks like it is narrower even though it is similar is size. The hood and grill make it look taller. With a starting price of $44,000 it should do well with the level of content it has. It also will appeal well with the livery fleets at that price. I am sure the specail edition one will be closer to $60K but the base should be a very nice car with the options it will come standard with. I just wish GM had one name for the touch screens. MyLink, Cue and Intellalink are just going to cloud more than clairify what they have. Ford has beat Sync into everyones head like Apple did I Pod. One name for a quality system is all that is needed.

I herard they were going to get a version of the Encore and it would be called a SUX. The first gen RWD SRX had LEDs, but the FWD SRX did not. WOW, Guess the dealership I have bought all my caddy's from must bring in mostly AWD then as I have not seen anything except LED tail lights. Thanks, I did not know they had two different lenses. You misunderstand...let me clarify: No LED: LED: Regardless of whether or not AWD was selected. Now, GM may have later added in LEDs to the 2010 design, but someone more knowledgeable than I will have to vouch for that, however, I have only seen incandescent brake lights on all the ones I've seen in the wild. I was pretty shocked, to say the least, especially because the taillights LOOK like they'd be LED, but when illuminated are clearly not. I got what you ment. If there is no LED in the new version it may be their way to keep the price in line with the Lexus. They did cut the price with the newer better selling version.

the hight and size on this car is not an issue. First off it you lowered the roof anymore we would have complaints like the 04-08 GTP for anyone over 5/11. Second folks this is a full size car so I have no issue with the 3800 pounds at this point. Knowing the size is similar to the XTS this will be a right sized car for the segment it is in. It is bigger than the older car in many areas. I too noted a lack of an engine in the 200 HP range. The 2 fours are too close together. I would like a 220 HP option or something around 250 HP. Now if they price the V6 resonable I expect it will pick up the gap as it has in the present car. The Malibu was not a home run by anymeans. It is a good car in a very tough segment. I expect we have much more to see since they are really only focusing on the Eco. Having been in the Regal and knowing how that car is I know there is much more they can do. The Malibu to this point has been the Chevy work horse and now that is going to fall on the Cruze and to a lesser extent the Impala.

The Delta platform Cruze and Verano turned out so well that it would be hard for me to justify the purchase of a short wheelbase Epsilon II Malibu or Regal. The Verano is quite a substantial looking car that just needs 2 or 3 more mpg. The new Impala looks nice but to my eyes it is a modernized version of the current car. I couldn't imagine buying one with the 2.5. 31 mpg highway is barely higher than what much more powerful V6's in this class are getting. This is my thinking. Unless they find a different way to make these cars different the Cruze and Verano price and quality wise really offer nearly as much. To me from what I saw on the Impala and Verano I would have a hard time buying a Malibu. A little more gets you a lot more car and a little less will get you a nicer interior in a better looking package. I just see the Malibu getting lost here.

Cafaro as a long and impressive history. Too often he was limited and restricted by GM. John did a lot of the work on the Fiero under John Schinella. Some of his drawings were amazing but GM never let them really ever come to life. I got to speak with him years ago in Detroit. He is an interesting guy to listen to. Many of the designers of the 80's till the time Lutzs showed up were hamstrung. They could not and would not be permited to do what they thought was right or could do. Once Lutz tore up the rule book he opened the door to let them do what they could do best. Check out the hood line at the front of this car. It is as tight of a gap as I have ever seen on a GM car. We must remember most of this car was done under Lutz and he supported his designers unlike past GM managers.

Same wheelbase, but w/ about 4.x inches more overhang. Same width.. 2012 LaX Curb Weight (FWD) 3835 lbs 3835 lbs Curb Weight (AWD) N/A N/A Front Track Width 61.7 in 61.7 in Overall Height 59.2 in 59.2 in Overall Length 196.9 in 196.9 in Overall Width 73.1 in 73.1 in Rear Track Width 62.0 in 62.0 in Wheelbase 111.7 in 111.7 in 2014 Impala According to GM: Wheelbase (in / mm): 111.7 / 2837 Overall length (in / mm): 201.3 / 5113 Overall width (in / mm): 73 / 1854 Overall height (in / mm): 58.9 / 1496 Track (in / mm): front: 62.2 / 1580 ; rear: 62 / 1576 Curb weight (lb / kg): 3800 / 1723 (est. – LT model w/ V-6) Thanks!

as always, much better in person. Olds. Size compared to the Lacrosse. Is it very similar of does it have any more length and width. It is hard to tell from the photo's. I expect it to be similar but the photo's make it look wider and longer.