hyperv6

75,000+ people on the web thought of the SS show car but it will still be a Zeta. As for CNG there is nothing wrong with it but it just will not be offered on a limited vehicle in a unproven market. Let the truck intro the umproved systems to the unwashed masses and let them see what the trucks can do and then work it into cars if demand warrants. Diesel is a good idea too but when the American market is not crying out for it you can't force them to buy them. These alt fuels need to be prove to the American public and then we will see some growth.

Come on guys you are acting like a bunch of honda owners on Auto Blog. You know as well as I do that Mark Ruess has made it clear he wanted the SWB Zeta back here after Pontiac left. We also know from public statments From Al Oppenheiser – Vehicle Chief Engineer, Global Rear Wheel Drive Vehicles that they were working on a RWD performance sedan when he said interanlly this was called the 4 DR Camaro and it would be here around 2014. The hold up on this car was the improvments the Zeta was getting in cutting weight and the VVT DI V8 that will first be offered in the new Vette. The only mystery to this whole deal is what the name is that they chose long ago per Al's statment. The only outstanding factor is that would there be some 11th hour issue that would kill the car at the last moment. While GM has been quiet on many of their cars this was one that a few in high places has spoke out on. We also it will be limited so don't expect 50,000 plus units and it more than not will be at or just over $40,000 as it will come mostly loaded unless they have changed their minds. Do not expect a V6 right now and if it ever got one it would be a TT V6. Note my pricing is based on the Regal GS. You know a loaded Zeta Sedan will be around the price of a loaded Camaro SS and higher than a Regal GS Turbo. Sorry no games here either with CNG as production is so small they will not fool with any odd limited options on an already limited car. So forget the typo, Forget the Caprice, Foget a Sonic SS etc. Think of this as an Improved, more powerful, lighter [by little] G8 GXP. Chevy Builds Performance!

The Image of Mercedes is different in Europe vs the States. Same for China. Hell Buick means more to many more in China than here. While this is a global industry the cars are not always playing to the same criteria in each market. I do have to agree image in the luxury group goes a long way here in the states. Cadillac has been repairing it's image but it still has work to do in this area. You can not just design in image and desire for the buyer, you have to earn it. Cadillac is doing it right by getting the ATS and CTS to the point where the general luxury car buyer will consider them. The price is right. I expect the performance to be pretty much right and the styling on the new ATS and from what we see here on the CTS is more in line what the general buyer is looking for but still with a Cadillac edge. It may not be as hard edged but it is still there. BMW and Benz did not take over from Cadillac and Lincoln in one year as it took years to take the market. It also was taken from two weak players at the time they did it. While Benz and BMW are the end all be all of cars they are still strong players and the segment leaders as far as the buying public is concerned. GM can win this back with the right moves and time. As for Lincoln Dan is right they need Holy Water and billions in investment just to get to where Cadillac is at. It is late in the game for them and I am not sure Ford can pull it off if a weak economy remains and the models do not improve a lot over what they have now.

2-5 years sound right. I would like to see Mark get the job. He is to me a younger Lutz. He has the right mix of car guy and coperate understanding to do well at this job. He also is a GM Brat as he grew up while his dad did a good job fighting the system doing cars like the GN when some at GM did not really want them. I think Mark would stand up to those who fight the change inside GM much as Lutz did if he was given the power.

The ATS and CTS both need to take that big step and not just be almost as good or as good in class, this time they need to be best in class in most general areas. Quality, Ergo, Handling, over all performance in comparible models and it needs to be better than just 6 months than the compitition. GM is to the point they need to take charge and move ahead and lead. They are now dealing with a new platform, restructured rules in building cars and more development money than they ever had. This time they need to get it right. The ATS and new CTS are the cars that will pave the way of trust to buyers who will pay more money for cars like the coming flag ship. You prove your worth and value with the lesser priced cars that people will take a chance on they will spend the kind of money on the higher priced models when they are ready. If you can't win trust with a $35,000 ATS how and the hell do you expect someone to pony up close to $100,000 on a unproven Cadillac. People spending this kind of money or more want to know they are going to get their moneys worth and not somthing that will be on a used car lot for $25,000 in 2 years with price drop off of some of the past expensive Cadillacs.

Enough already it is coming unless there is any 11th hour changes. We know it will be an improved SWB Zeta and it will have the DI V8 as that is why we don't have it now. As for the Avalanche it may simply just be that the cancelation of it was recent enough it was not updated here.

Here are the paint layouts for Greg Anderson and Jason Line in NHRA Pro Stock. We should see these cars soon replace the point leading G6 they are using now. Andrson and Line release the new Summit colors at Super Summit South In Georgia last Saturday. The guys are First and Second in points in the NHRA Pro Stock class but will change soon to these new Camaro Pro Stock cars. The Chevy Teams got a lot of what they wanted with a much longer nose and a greater slope in the C pillar and short deck lid. This gives them similar aero numbers and stability the G6 offers now. These changes are part of the reason these cars are so late. These teams also lost some offical support but they stayed loyal till GM could come back and support them again. Greg Stanfield has already hit the track at the Vegas race as I suspected but he had engine issue. The KB racing guys are running at a record pace and have a lot of engine. The key will be to get this to the track with the new cars. I am sad to say with the new cars the Stock in Pro Stock is long over. The new Bodies are similar to the Pro Mod Cars and are all carbon Fiber now and share next to nothing with the stock body. The days of Body in white are gone for good and we will get cars more like Door Slamming Funny Cars than street cars. The new Dodge Charger is a real mess of a looking race car. Might note that these drawings show the cars a little more conservitive than they really are. I have seen the new bodies and they do take advantage of the changes NHRA let them do.

While this may look dated today it set the trend for the insutry in the removal of chrome etc. Today the chrome is returning as well as the addition of spcial lighting. I see GM in the lead on the special interior lighting. I expect the others will soon make more use of this in their cars too.

Euro cars excluding some itallian models for the most had little interior styling from post WWII till the late 80's and early 90's. From the 50's till the late 60's many in Western Europe were lucky to just have a car let alone one with a stylish interior. My father lived in Germany for a few years in the 50's and told me and showed me what they had to drive. As their economy improved the cars started to improve. But they took years to rebuild to a stable level after the war. Now prewar Euro cars could in many cases have some of the richest interiors found and we were in the post depression era where the basics were the norm in most affordable Chevys and Fords. It improved upto and then after the war. Anyway for what it is worth in this thread. I saw the first Zeta Chevy Police car today. It was kind of odd to see the fender flares bulging out like a G8 but a small simple Chevy grille.

Even the Benz was not a styling show case with there interiors. But the quality of materials were better than most. Today there are many original examples in good unrestored condition. But again as your price points out these cars were not competing. Cadillac was mostly worried what Lincoln and Chrysler to a lesser extent were doing. For the most they did not consider BMW the compitition not as much Benz with their higher priced models. The American luxury segment was for the most a 3 horse race till they started to lose sales to an improving import market.

I guess you missed the point. BMW of the 70's and 80's were not intended to take on American Luxury car head to head. I am sure there is a German mocking the Cheap Plastic R2 D2 Interior of the Buick that was so called pushing the envolope too. The fact is these cars were not going head to head and were aimed at not only different buyers but for the most entirerly different markets. The GM interiors were a joke in Europe as much as the BMW and plain drab Benz or Audi interiors were mocked by many here in America . Style Expectations were different as was Quality expectations. To compare cars from this era is near impossible as they were literally a world appart. Today as the market tightens based on global market expectations we can more easily compare the styling as they are now set to what the global market expects or will accept. Less that Pizza looking hook rug like thing in the Nissan Cube dash? The one thing you can compare is the quality of materials. In many of these dated cheap looking euro cars you will find the quality of materials held up better in most but not all cases. These companies that did stick to the better materials have made the market as a whole improve. GM over the years has done some nice interiors while some that looked dated a year after it was released. The interiors of GM cars sucked as for the most they did not hold up over the long run in many models from the last 30 years. Case in point. I have a neighbor that has a 81 Camaro V8 4 Speed. He is to the point now with Alzheimers he is no longer able to drive his car he has asked me to take the car now and then to keep it in running condition. It was this car that has shown me how the interior of this car has held up to time pretty well styling wise but it also shows me the quality of the materials uses and how poorly it was assembled. This car only has 14,000 miles on it and still has the factory Uniroyal tires still under it. It is a time capsule of a Camaro interior of this age as even the heater control panel is still unrumpled and the glove box is still in alignment. There are few rattles in the car other than what came from the factory. It made me marvel how far most of GM's interiors have come in quality. Even yet there is room to improve. It has been made clear by GM people that the money in their cars over the last 30 years often went into the car everywhere and the interiors were often where the money was saved. I also have a set of 911 seats in the garage from a old car we turned into a race car. I have used these seats for 20 years of beating around the garage after they were beat around in the Porsche for years before. The material is still in good shape and durable. Pretty it is not but the quality stands out. As for styling much of the 70's and 80's was very trendy like some of the clothing. You don't seem many of more popular things worn much anymore like the old StyleAuto jackets or Disco suits. Note even in my Terrain I love the styling on how they did the interior and lights. But with that said there is still a spot on the head liner that has a ruff surface under it that shows throught. I though about replacing it but I hate to have them rip it appart for something few others will notice. But it still should not be there. Also the plastics in some areas could or should have been better. It is good but I have seen better in other GM cars and other MFG cars in this class. I expect GM to take the interior to the next level in the new cars we are now getting like the ATS. I expect the styling and quality of materials to be best in class for once on this car.

I always loved the GM head liner drop of the 80's. BMW in 1981 as was Audi not the kind of car they are today. Both were pretty basic cars that had good handling. They were not the most luxurious and not always the fastest as they were about handling and the drive. For the most there are still the BMW fan that still wishes they offer cars like the BMW 2002 and less like than what some of them have become today.

The Geen part is only part of it and I agree. Electronics are almost the #1 factor to youth of today and that is why we are gettting all the intergration of these items into cars. It used to be engine size and now it is how well the I phone or pad works with the cars systems. 73-75 is a good choice of years but if you look at it this is when cars started a trend to become more of an applicance. This is when American cars were on the decline in styling and peformance while Imports were cheaper got better MPG and had less quality issues even if they were more basic. I agree too on size of country. The factors that effect Americans is country size and the fact we have always been for the most a country that is used to going when we want to where we want. That is something many other countries have never have had avaiable to them. We all may live one planet but we are still not nor ever will be the same. There will always be a group of auto enthusiast but I am sad to say we are no longer as large or strong of a group we once were. The MFG will always have a offering but not in the great ranges we once enjoyed.

1981 Buick Quality We all have come a long way baby!

This is one of the more pointed statments here on like some. Regulations have put most MFG in a box and technology determines the size of that box. The key it to put product into that box people will buy. This has lead to changes in market wants and needs. MPG. Utility, Affordability, Reliability are all great factors anymore. Styling is a factor but not to the degree as it once was. Just look around at some of the cars they are selling in great numbers to the public but how either plain or ugly they are. The people see greater value in these other factors and are willing to give a little on the styling. The greatest thing that pains me is to see how little pride people have in their cars. To many anymore they show as much interest in the freezer in the garage as much as the car it shares space with. This is one trends I would love to see reversed but with the Green beating of our kids in school many are gowing up with the idea autos are a necessary or unnecssary evil if you can ride the bus.

Thanks!

Donut officer?

I see the cars as LS, LT, LTZ with SS and Z models for selected models. I still don't want a Spark SS or Suburban SS where it is appropreate is fine. then offer the over the top cars as a Z model like the ZO6, ZL1 an ZR1 already do. The LTZ is luxury while any SS needs to turn stop and accelerate in class leading fashion to earn the tag. Cylinder count and what wheels driven do not matter if it is class leading performance. The Z models need to be near or at super car performance.

This is how I see it. The present CTS has gone from a non contender Catera to a CTS that is a player in the segment. The next CTS I feel will be one that will challange for the lead. The ATS I expect will be a car that can contend for the class lead but it is to soon to crown it a leader yet. Once we see the test and drive it we will know if it has the right stuff. On paper the standard ATS look very good. The SRX is not what I would term as the new GM. I think it represents well what Lutz could do with what he had to work with. The next update on the Theta platform will be move to the head of the pack. Owning a new Theta I can tell you it is as good or better than many in class but it just needs a touch more to be the lead in price ranges in this competitive class. The XTS is mostly in a class of its own. It is a little 300 a little old town car and a little new Cadillac. It is mostly like the SRX a finished verson of a model Lutz started before the new money came in. It is about as good as it can be in class as it mostly has few in this price range that offer what it offers and will do the mission it is set to do. I see it as a space filler till a true flag ship is ready and in time it will be replaced with a larger version on the Alpha or other RWD AWD chassis. I do not believe in faith in a company. I know GM has the tallent to do what it needs and they key was to set them lose to do the job. Lutz and a few others have changed the GM rule book to let them build the cars the way they need to be and not follow the crazy rules in the past. They no longer have to be asked to do class leading panel gaps. They no longer have to be told to put chrome around the windows to make a plain car look much more up class. Yes it will cost more money but if it increases sales no one will repremand you like they would if the car fails due to a poor cheap appearance. The only real issue is that it will take time to do all that needs done. GM as big as it is just does not have the money to do all that needs done at one time. Also they just don't have the man power to do it all at one time and still get it right. Doing the trucks now will inject a lot of cash flow to help fund many of the new project that are to come. It is not faith it is just a matter of doing the job right and make smart buisness moves needed to keep the progress going. This is like the new tower in NY being built to replace the twin towers. You start at the ground floor and work your way up. Make each and every move a step ahead and win the desire and trust of the public to spend more and more money on the cars you build. To turn around decades of GM and Cadillac will take years and not months. It will take more than one model and each new one building on the one before it. I just hope GM can get to the point where they can into cars that are not just as good in class but the best and remain there more than 6 months to a year like it is now.

The mistake is some thing these are the destination when these models are the path. Cadillac will evolve and they will get there. The ATS for the reality of it is the real first step post Chapter 11.

Well I too would have thought they had this one wrapped up too but then again I have seen were GM has had to go back to protect some names from the past that they missed where they lost ther lock on it. GM may have locked it in as a model name for the new sedan as some are thinking. It could be they did some stronger links to the name since they may be planning a more expanded use for the name. It could be a lot of things as with the way things have gotten so legal anymore it gets real crazy.

Not sure you can be the "world standard" when you pretty much only sell in North America and even in the USA Cadillac is mid-pack in sales. Be sure that being a 'world standard' is NOT aspirationally based on merely reaching a crushing sales volume.... This is where Cadillac is going but you can not just start building expensive low volume cars over night and expect people to buy them right out of the gate after years or poor cars. You need to undersell the other and improve the cars to the point you earn the customers trust before he plunks down $95,000 on a car. BMW and Benz sell as much or more on past rep than present qulity. Today Cadillac needs to earn the rep of quaily and value and transfer that to more and more lower volume higher price and profitable cars. I think the flag ship will be here at the time that the ATS and new CTS will have few excuses to not be in the same class as Benz and BMW. They could not have done that on the first gen CTS. Now the money is here they have been fixing the lower end cars that will show people the flag ship is worth putting the money down for. the XTS wil keep up the cash flow and resale value of the other cars by being the volume car for now.

There is a llttle valid point to anything if you beat it long enough. The fact remains there are no Cruze, Sonic and many other coupes because they sit on lots and sell no where near the sedans. In fact they make cars like the Sonic 5 door look like a coupe but sneek 3 more doors on to get people to buy it as the 3 doors sales have dropped so much. No matter how you spin in the coupe have been dropped for the lack of demand. I wish they would offer more intersting coupes. I would be interested in one for myself but I also accept the fact that my wants and likes are no longer the norm on the market. Some companies got so deperate like Mazda they added the odd extended doors to an RX7 that would have been much nicer looking without them. That was one car most people buy that could care less about a back seat because sports cars are not expected to have a good back seat. The 130R was interesting but with the Camaro going to this style coupe I think it was a hint at the size and direction of the new Camaro but not so much the styling. Again if there was so much demand everyone would offer one on each model and that is just not happening. In todays market the models we see most often reflect the consumers demands. That is why we have 50 different types of small SUV like vehicles on the market today. There have even been stories in the past pointing out the consumers today look to Utility, Reliability and MPG of a vehicle as much or more than many other aspects including styling. That would explain the Juke. . We beat this to death by now and all have made out points. Time will prove who is right here. I think we will find we will have a coupe coupe options but don't expect a great return of these styles of cars unless market demands change.

Of the buying market... which are 50+ year olds. If cars could choke down the runaway pricing, so that we were living in the "golden years" of the '60s when people earning $1~2/hr... about double minimum wage could afford to buy NEW cars, younger people would buy... and many would want coupes, IF they were exposed to the benefits. Plus if a youth movement was spurned by the domestics, you would potentially help get the economic machinery moving in this country again... instead of a limited number of 50 year olds sending 50% of the car buying dollars overseas on beige foreign appliance cars. Incidentally, I don't mind 4 door SUVs nearly as much as sedans. They are like the wagons of the past... generally larger front and rear doors, so you aren't as likely to be sitting behind the B-pillar and adults can get into and remain in the rear seat without needing to remove their heads and legs first. They are simply not as much of a compromise. No, you still need two doors, because while there are a lot of sedan drivers driving solo, they do spend a decent percentage with 1 passenger. For the top 5 sedan drivers (myself included) that I can get a decent sampling of, I would guesstimate a breakdown something like... 65-70% solo, 29-35% 1 passenger, and less than 1% more than 2... which works out to be about 2-3 trips a year with a 3rd or 4th passenger. To me, I should not have to put up with the amount of discomfort I put up with for 99% of the trips in a sedan for the benefit of a handful of people who can climb into the rear of a coupe. Don't get me wrong, I hope... and I'm sure that other sedans' backseats are getting a better workout... but by spot checking the drivers around me, its not by much. Finally, your logic of equating doors to cylinders is simply not valid. I use, at least once, on 99% of my trips, the entire power of the engine. In any case, I'm sure any study, if done, would show that the average driver uses a higher percentage of their engine than the percentage of their doors. Wow Quotes with logic like this I really don't know what to say. In fact in fact I don't think anyone could really add much to that. Well your logic must correct with all these coupes on top of all yearly sales list. and all the car companies must blind to all this pent up demand for coupes. Damn they should hire you as a consultant. Better yet you had better e mail them quick and let them know so they can get right on it. That last paragraph is a real hoot! Make sure you send that one too! LOL!

You're clearly mentally handicapped with your logic. Most of my friends driving sedans drive solo, almost always. First, as Balthy noted, not everybody has kids. Second, kids spend only about 20% of their childhood in car seats. I grew up in coupes. Period. Our family did not get a sedan in the 'family' until I bought my '99 Bonneville in 2003. Putting car seats in the rear of the car was not a problem. Getting in the backseat of the car in the rain was never a problem. As a 6'4" 300lb teenager, I had no problem jumping into the rear of the '74 Nova, '81 Cutlass, '69 Firebird, '70 Tempest... probably more, I can't recall. I don't question that some people use them, but I just don't see it. I can't get into most sedan backseats smaller than a W-body. My feet don't fit in the floorwell... or I have to side sideways. OTOH, I spent a day recently putting children in car seats in the back of the GF's Corolla (about the only time in 5 years, I have observed the rear seats used)... it was a PITA. The roofline is low, so removing the kids from the seats involved bending them so you didn't remove their heads... and trying to close the buckles was difficult, as I had to stoop, jammed near the door's hinges to see whats going on... don't want to get any child parts caught in those buckles. My parents had a good reasoning for putting us in the back seat of a coupe... we weren't likely to open the door and fall out. The children I had in the backseat were already reaching for the window switches and door handles while they were in the child seats. Sure, there are child locks... but they can be a hassle... so are window lockouts. Back in the days before everything had power locks, ensuring all the doors were locked was a PITA. Back in the '80s two people I knew with sedans had people jump into the backseat at traffic lights... thinking it was a taxi! That's not secure to me. Finally, you are comparing the blindspots created by the B-pillars to the blindspots created by the C-pillars. The problem with your logic is that I'm not sitting behind the C-pillars. The B-pillars are blocking my ability to look left and right at a intersection. And sitting behind the B-pillars is not unique to me... most of my taller friends and family end up sitting behind the B-pillar. I can only imagine in a T-bone accident how much of my skull will be ripped open by the B-pillar and seat belt harness. I know how to use my mirrors to see around the C-pillars fine... where do you suggest I install extra mirrors so I can see to my left? I stand by my words. Useless doors. Safety issues... added parts... and subpar functionality, even for loading stuff into the car. And still, a styling ugliness... but I leave styling out, as its too subjective. Wow how do you argue with flawed thinking like this? You can make all the claims you like about the pro's and con'd of the number of doors but the fact remains the majority of the market wants 4 doors be it a car or SUV. You have to look at how the market has changes and who the buyers are. When Coupes were more popular most of the market for new cars were men. Today Women buyer are now at least 50% or more in some segments. They for the most will buy cars for different reasons than men as they are less emotional about the purchase in most cases and more practical. That accounts for all the mini vans sold over the last 30 years. If it were up to guys buying them they would have never lasted. As for what anyone needs the truth is a Chevy Spark sized car with one door is all most really need on their daily commute. So if you want to play that card that would mean we don't need V8 engines, Corvettes, Camaro's etc. The bottom line is that GM is giving the market what they want and what they are buying. It is no longer build it and they will come to us as the MFG must give the market what they clammor for. Does that mean we always get what the enthusiast wants? no but it keeps a company from going chapter 11. I love the new CTS coupe but I fear that it may not be back in the new CTS. Sales are low but at the price point it is they can afford lower volumes. Time and market demands will tell.