hyperv6

Opel and Buick both need to earn their way up as they are still too close to Chevy and Cadillac is holding the lid on them. Once Cadillac moves up more it will give room to Opel and Buick to be more of the kind of car they need to be. But right now it is tough to fit these two division inbetween the tight space between Chevy and Cadillac. It is playing hell on the models they can offer and pricing.

Per someone I know involved with the Camaro here is what I know. Note they could not speak directly but could give some general ideas along with some real info. Do not expect any major changes there will only be small changes from now till 2014-15. The target for the Gen 6 on the Alpha is 2015. They are already well the way and yes there are mules but you would never noice them as they are under different bodies. You will see them when GM wants you to see them. That odd looking CTS could be somthing more special than you think. They could delay the car if there are issues but with the ATS out the Chassies should be well sorted already so I don't expect the dates to change much if at all. It could be out in 2015 as a 15 model or 2015 as a 16 model. GM wants it soon to compete with the coming Mustang. There will be some special editions yet and limited edition colors to keep things fresh in the prsent cars. They are doing much like Mazda does on the Miata to keep it fresh. As for the Z28 it is still in the works but I get the feeling it may be saved for the 2015 model. The HP on the present car might change a little but the new car is waiting for the new DI engine. Many of the coming GM models like the Vette, Trucks, SS and Camaro are all waiting for the new engine. The V8 will be in play but GM will push the TTV6 more and offer a nice Turbo 4 package with a much lighter car. Note the next car will be a global car. It like the Mustang will change enough to still appeal to the American market but also to appeal to the global market. That means smaller and easier to see out of. I figure we are about a year out from starting to hear much anything solid on the new car. After word leaked on the C7 I believe there will be few leaks here. Styling is the biggest mystery as there has been no clue or leak on any ideas that they are looking at. I suspect the retro like the coming Mustang will be toned a little. They will be going for a car that will look like a Camaro but with its own modern styling that would appeal on the global market.

DI , full VVT, and a turbo or two would address those issues in the Atlas and make it more than a match for the Ecoboost. Still does not address the cost of building the engine. The Atlas per GM was not cheap to build. Also there is no where else to use it as it would still would not fit the Colorado or new Trailblazer. A new Eco based engine sharing parts and design would be a better way to go. It would be cheaper and lighter by sharing things like rods pistons and other valvetrain parts. Then it would have to be offered in the VF. But knowing GM has a twinturbo coming and the fact that the Ford has already proven that people smart or not will pay more money for this type engine means we will not see the return of the inline anytime soon if ever. Now truck do need to lose weight and they do have a lot of wasted space. It is sad the 2010 Silverado has less bed length than my neighbors 2000 Dakota short bed. While the cab has more room inside as in cubic feet there is still a lot of wasted space in the cab. Also the nose of the truck is massive and has no rea use other than pretending to be a mini semi. GM and the others need to come up with a creative package that people will love but make much better use of the space given. This will not be easy as many truck owners have a crazy love for large chrome grills and boxy front ends that do noting to help the truck haul anything,

I think BMW resolves much with laying the engine over to reduce height of the engine. Also they use a much shallower pan. The real issue was more to do with cost. At one time they said how much that engine was to build per unit vs the V8. It would do no good to have the cost of your entry level engine cost more than the V8. It would be even worse if it could not be used in any other vehicle other than a truck. Now if they could do a slant 6 that would fit in the VF and keep the cost down while getting good power andf economy it would be do able. I wonder how much a Ecotech I6 would cost and if they could do a reliable 300 NA HP.

I agree with all but there are a few issues. GM will want to use an engine or in this case a 6 cylinder that could be used in more than one platform and vehicle other than a truck or SUV. The Atlas was a pretty good engine but there were issues with it too. While it ran great and had good power it never got the MPG the others in class got. They even played with a Turbo on the I 5 with good results but again no MPG. Add in the cost of the Atlas vs the V8 and GM just could never consider it. It was heavy and to get the front axles in they had to go through the pan. I would love to see a well built I 6 but right now there are too many factors against it.

Lighter trucks are a given and we will see them cut weight in the next two gens at GM. As for power The V6 Turbo is a give just because the public has taken to them. Ford proved it with their risk and even made a buck. They made the V6 an option people really wants. Diesels still have issue. There is a goup of buyers who will consider them but GM will still have to take that step out on faith that they can market them in a half ton. It is a risk like Ford took but in a truck it still may pay off. I still fear that a Diesel Cruze will still be a hard sell. The average Americans do not like or understand Diesels. GM has to change this to make it work in the cars.

I agree. Better to let this go till GM at the very least gives you something real to argue about. To argue bout the power of this car now is like complaining about styling with camo in place or a unfiinshed interiror. Too many here are suffering Premature Speculation.

Look you can disagree all you like but I am not going to argue with you. Time will prove! Note it was approx 450 HP for the future low volume flagship with the new DI Gen V.

While Diesels will help the issue is most buyers still want gas so they still need to address that. GM has forgotten the V6 for way too long. The Colorado in the new form will improve on the old issues of design and quality but will it fix the price issue. Today you can still buy a full size truck on sale for less or the same as a Colorado. The price it just too high and too close to the half ton truck that ends up being a better value. I wish they would have move the Colorado to the dize the S-10 was and get back to a smaller truck. The Ranger as old as it was did so well at a lower price in a smaller size. I think that speaks volumes on what the maket wants. Imagine if Ford had done a new Ranger in that size I think it would have dominated the market.

Let it go guys you are arguing about somthing that may never happen and if it does it would be only a handfull of limited editions on a already limite production car. The only think known is we will get a Chevy RWD and it is expected to be approx 450 HP and cost in the $39K-49 range. Lets get this one first and then disagree on what may come later. It just seems so anal around here anymore since GM has been more witholding on info. We are down to disagreeing on things that may never come.

I know it make little sense to pay that much more for a Turbo V6 when the Coyote is a very good engine with only 1-2 less MPG but people are. This is not a case where you reason with the customer. This is a case were you give the customer what they want and if they are paying more for it all the better. The Turbo V6 has taken with a large segment of this market and GM needs to offer something similar no mater what the V8 is. The other trick is the Turbo engine is much easier to tune in many cases and the power increases are far easier.

In this global market you can not walk away from any segment anylonger. To survive in the future you will need to be involved everywhere or be a part of someone that is. Going to China is a real pain in the A$$ but there are few global players now willing to do what the Chinese goverment requires to sell cars there. As difficult at Europe is GM need to be there in some form and degree. We will see Chevy take the lead there for GM and the rest will have to find their place there.

Paring engines is a old stunt that leads to more cylinders and not always a better engine. GM would be better off doing it right or just using a Gen V vs some cobbled up mess. If GM not afford to do a special engine right they would be better off just modifying the new Gen V. Cylinder count does not have the draw it once had with the public. An advanced and refind hi output engine is more important vs how many cylinders.

GM still needs to keep some feet on the ground in Europe. To have people there and use people from there to taylor the products engineered here for their market is the only way you will get the models right. I saw a 9-5 tonight and though how it was one of the best styled Saabs in history. That is what killed them they made a car that did not look like the hunchback.

We will get a 6 speed Manual in the SS at some point. I just saw we should expect it to happen after intro.

I have to agree a V12 just will not happen unless something crazy comes about. I do think there is something special coming because there are enough people there who understand what is needed. It is also to hide an engine in plain site in a plain old VE Holden for testing. They could be doing this now and we would never know. On one level I have seen were some of the Euro companies are moving to more Turbo V8 engines and it makes me wonder if they would be looking at that. But what ever it is it needs to be done right. It need to be more than just a cobbled up engine based on some other engine. The days of where they wanted to adapt two Quad 4 engines to make a V8 make my skin crawl. GM no longer has to resort to this. If Lotus was not in so much trouble I would love to see GM build a nice engine and share it with them for one of their cars. I am still shocked they nevere said much about the work Lotus did on the Ecotech Turbo.

There is no simple formula in this class of car. The one common element is what the car does for the image of the owner. This is the look at me class and what the car says about you to others as wells yourself. Lets face it we all could get by with a Cruze but when you roll up in a high priced image car it says something that many people what their image to say. They also feel they have purchased leading technology. BMW and Benz for the most live on the image of their name. Styling has never been their strong suit but the people see you roll up in a car with either name says you have wealth... or just a large car payment. Those how buy Asian cars are ok with knock off Benz styling on a Toyota or odd styling on a fancey Honda bases Acura. These people are looking to save a buck but feel they are buying a high quality car. Preception here is what makes these owners happy and they feel they have improved their image and feel they are showing to be smart buy buying precieved quailty. Cadillac is making up for lost time buy using technology and styling to attract people in the look at me crowd. It will still take time for the Quality and Image factor to be build back up. This will come in time and the attractive wrapers will give them a shot at drawing people in. There are many other factors but these are just some of what is a draw. I hope in the future we can say people are buying a Cadillac because they want to be seen in a Cadillac. Cheap and suprifical as that may be it sells a lot of cars and that is the trump card here.

Lets also note Lexus while they have done ok still has fallen short of the class leaders like Benz and BMW in overal global image. They are in the room but have never lead the parade. This admission is from Mr Toyoda himself. He is overseeing that Lexus calls the shots and not Toyota and advanced their own image from being just a fancy Toyota. .

Yeah, let's see the product unveiled to see where GM is aiming at. I just hope, though, that GM would introduce the engine on a Cadillac and then have it trickle down to Chevrolet. I know it's all GM Engineering so it is (being 100% objective) the exact same thing, but... Cadillac having precedence in the engine's introduction would be a tiny but welcome step in the perception side of things (Chevrolets getting a Cadillac engine and not the other way around)... There is one big issue. GM has spent too many years promoting this as a Small Block Chevy when in truth it pretty much is a new engine unto it's self. The Cadillac angle would have been nice but difficult at this point to change boats in mid river. The other issue is GM will not have a car for a V8 till the new CTSv is ready and it is a little ways off yet. As it is the Vette was stated as the first model to show off the new engine and then the rest. I still wonder what they have planned for the Omega. I really expect something special there and not just a juiced up Gen V. CTS should have a non-V V8 model, so the car for that V8 is just around the corner, a year or so away Re the Omega's engine, wasn't there a rumor going around of a DOHC version of the Gen V having been designed by GM? Also there was a rumor of Caddy using BMW's V8. I have heard that too. A deal like the Lotus/GM Designed ZR1 engine could be done but the more I see with where GM is today post Chapter 11 I feel this option is no longer needed. I just have a better feeling we will see something done at the Wixcom center.

Lexus worked because it was based in Toyota. It gave the many happy Toyota owners a place to move up. The issue with Hyundai is they have to over come they past. In a Sonata it is easy to take a chance at $20K. Now at $65K the risk are much greater and harder to justify. With GM they have to live down the 70's, 80's and some 90's of crappy cars. Either way no matter how good the new cars are they will have to earn the trust and image back, you can not design this in. This is where the ATS and new CTS are the right place to earn it back. People will take a chance on these cars where if you tried to start with the Omega like car few will bite on it at that price point. Also Cadillac has to live down the anti American snobbery which there is little fix for other than winning other buyers over till they are left out in the cold. At least Cadillac has hope and really good product coming. Lincoln on the other hand is what Cadillac was in the 90's using nothing but shared FWD platforms only. Cadillac will have one shared FWD but the rest is RWD and will be by far the best on the Alpha.

Yeah, let's see the product unveiled to see where GM is aiming at. I just hope, though, that GM would introduce the engine on a Cadillac and then have it trickle down to Chevrolet. I know it's all GM Engineering so it is (being 100% objective) the exact same thing, but... Cadillac having precedence in the engine's introduction would be a tiny but welcome step in the perception side of things (Chevrolets getting a Cadillac engine and not the other way around)... There is one big issue. GM has spent too many years promoting this as a Small Block Chevy when in truth it pretty much is a new engine unto it's self. The Cadillac angle would have been nice but difficult at this point to change boats in mid river. The other issue is GM will not have a car for a V8 till the new CTSv is ready and it is a little ways off yet. As it is the Vette was stated as the first model to show off the new engine and then the rest. I still wonder what they have planned for the Omega. I really expect something special there and not just a juiced up Gen V. CTS should have a non-V V8 model, so the car for that V8 is just around the corner, a year or so away Re the Omega's engine, wasn't there a rumor going around of a DOHC version of the Gen V having been designed by GM? I really don't expect a non V CTS unless there was something I missed. As for the Omega. I have heard a lot of things. The only thing I know is it has to be something special and GM will either build it at the engine center in Detroit or they will out source it to another MFG. Either way I expect it will be of GM design and the assembly will be done in the best way for a low volume engine to remain affordable. With the Detroit Engine shop now GM could do this in house so much easier than when they had Mercury do the ZR1 engines.

I always felt that an honest opinion was the only one worth offering - anything else isn't really worth $h!. Honesty is a good thing and nomally works best with Constructive Criticism vs just plain old criticism. When presenting a negitive feedback offering a positive feedback does complete the thought GM people do read here. But then again when it gets anal here sometimes I wonder if they even bothers anymore.

Yeah, let's see the product unveiled to see where GM is aiming at. I just hope, though, that GM would introduce the engine on a Cadillac and then have it trickle down to Chevrolet. I know it's all GM Engineering so it is (being 100% objective) the exact same thing, but... Cadillac having precedence in the engine's introduction would be a tiny but welcome step in the perception side of things (Chevrolets getting a Cadillac engine and not the other way around)... There is one big issue. GM has spent too many years promoting this as a Small Block Chevy when in truth it pretty much is a new engine unto it's self. The Cadillac angle would have been nice but difficult at this point to change boats in mid river. The other issue is GM will not have a car for a V8 till the new CTSv is ready and it is a little ways off yet. As it is the Vette was stated as the first model to show off the new engine and then the rest. I still wonder what they have planned for the Omega. I really expect something special there and not just a juiced up Gen V.

This is what is known. The new Gen V DI is said to be giving near Z06 power in the coming C7 Vette. Or at least based on a quote from GM. That puts it in at least the 450 HP and over range at least in the Vette in standard trim. Some think it may almost reach 500 HP in standard trim. Chevy is also not going to walk away from the ZR1 and ZL1 type models. I expect to see the SS gain some HP with the DI engine but I also see a limited engine to bump the HP to the next level for the ZL1 and ZR1. The Present ZR1 engine was tested and approved to 725 HP.as it sits now with only a little extra tweek It met the MPG, Emissions and Warranty standards I see a new engine should be able to improve on all three even with more power. The fact is with ford already reaching 600 plus with the Mustang now GM will not let it go unanswered. Also with the Vette going to go up against a more powerful Viper the future for a ZR1 C7 looks to raise the stakes. The new SS model is all about marketing. GM should make a buck on it but the low volume is all about getting Chevy noticed. I expect they will find a way to make it stand out vs the other cars like the Charger and SVO. Even with more power a RWD Chevy sedan will still not be direct compitition to the CTS V. The tone and flavor of these cars are a whole different ball game. Much like the Charger SRT and the top line 300 as they are directed at different people.Also the Cadillas will be more money. Few expected the ZL1 To get more power than the CTSv but it did. Just with the RWD Chevy being low volume and being show cased in NASCAR I expect some special things will be done to keep it fresh. Also the performance market it does not pay to be 2nd best in the HP department. GM is already getting grilled over the less HP in the ZL1 over the Shelby. I do think they will be suprised to find that once they line the cars up they will be much closer than they expect due to the suspension package on the ZL1. Not to be over looked Cadillac will also share in upgrades to their engine line too. I in no way expect 1,000 HP but I do expect the Vette to hit 700 HP at some point with the C7 and I see the Camaro and CTS to reach the 600 plus range. The outside chance a 700 HP engine could also play in these cars in a limited edition too. Note were are not talking big numbers here just a hand full of cars for marketing much like HSV does for Holden. It will be getting to the point where even these engines will not meet the MPG standards and I expect as the heavier cars like the Zeta based line get replaced a send off limited edition would be a nice send off for the heavier car. We also still have a Z28 coming at some point. The ZL1 did not stop this program and we will see more from it too. I am not sure what this will be yet as few have spoken of it other than to know this car was not passed over. I see it as another specail model to keep it fresh in the future. But lets just let GM show us what the standard model is before we get too far ahead.

Huh? The Shelby GLH-S was over 25 years ago...ancient news. You're not following the conversation, Moltie, keep up. I made the distinction above; mega hi-HP cars are fine in dedicated sports/pony cars, but they don't fit in the sports sedan segment if Cadillac is going to fall UNDER Chevy in the numbers. What Shelby 4dr sedan are you referring to, then? I doubt if Chevy is going to do a ZL1 version of the SS. It would be a long shot but with them using it in NASCAR I expect it will be used in many ways as a marketing tool. It struck me as odd they went to a low volume sedan in NASCAR unless they plan to use this to show case things to draw attention to Chevy and the rest of the line.