hyperv6

You only keep looking at this in one dimention. It is more than about output numbers. Factor in what the costomer are looking for and what the market wants. Also while in some cases the MPG advantage is only one MPG it will not be long before companies will sell their soul for 1 MPG or pay Honda for a MPG credit they have extra. Add in the added profit and sales that come what many precieve as a more advance drivetrain. Again why are all the MFG are going to turbo 4 and TT V6 and not your V8? None of the MFG are looking to grow the V8 as they want to retain the buyers they have and move what they can to the smaller engine. I am sorry but the martket and MFG's are counter to your claims. Are they all wrong and only you are correct. This line of discussion is not with me it is with the market and the path it is on.

Besides before I would spend $40,000 on a new Camaro or GTO as I would have a hard time taking that money and just buy the real thing. At least it would be worth more in 5-10 years as vs a old 2012 Camaro.

But the Future should look to inspiration from the past. I think we can have some amazing cars if we only realized what has been lost in the Style department and this kind of car does inspire me to build a modern judge GTO that would be so much better. A little retro is ok but to over do it iis just a sign of a poor stying staff. Did you ever see Harley Earl or Bill Mitchell take from past cars? No they looked to nature and other things frome P38 fighters to Mako Sharks to inspire new original designs. If they took from other cars often it was from cars like Rolls and Ferrari to inspire parts of their cars not whole cars. I think they did right on the new Camaro with some old but a lot of new hard edges on the car. I hope they keep some traits in the new Alpha that makes you know it is a Camaro but I want to see some new original ideas. The Camaro is more than an old muscle car or pony car as pointed out by the super car like lap times of the ZR1. Also while there are pockets of American car fans around the world full on American Retro does not play well in the global market. The HHR and SSR were popular here but they are lost on Europe. The Camaro styling is not hated but they wonder why anyone would want a car you can't see an Apex looking out. As for many young drivers today they also have a different take on things. While some like the old cars many could care less for many of them. They would rather have cars we would never consider like a WRX or some other sport sedan. Hell many would pass up a V6 Camaro for of all things a Soul. Yes it is crazy to me too but you must adapt to the market to reach the most buyers not just some of the buyers.

Not really! Leave the copying to the aftermarket and Chinese. It is time to build modern new clasics. You can't live in the past forever or you will never have a future.

The one thing we all need to consider too is the Average Price of a car today is over $30,000 as of the 2012 model year. The fact is each year more and more cars become more and more out of peoples price range. If the economy does not improve the market is in a world of hurt and will have to pray these lower priced small cars pick up the slack. If Buick still offered a LeSabre today it would be near $50.000 based on the price of the new Impala and XTS. But then again Cadillacs and Buicks are not and should not be a car everyone can afford. They sell in a area where you make more money per unit and sell less units. People often want what they can't have. While GM will grow both divisions yet as they do need growth they both will not rely on volume to make a profit.

Nothing personal but RU NUTS? Even real car guys mock these things and wonder why would you do this to a Vette. Even one from a year they did not like. There is no designing skill here as they just copies and grafted an old style to a new car. GM needs someone who can fit a design on a smaller car inside the aero box they are stuck in and make it original. That is the mountain that needs to be climbed. That is why so many cars today are so similar. It is not easy and many companies just take the easy ways out and copy. Few will risk a major flop that could cost a company billions. Sad but few leaders are willing to take the chances that someone like a Lutz would take. He gets it and was not affraid.

I think the key here is to move the Lacrosse and Regal more upscale in their new version when they come. By then the CTS will be out and have moved up too. Buick is just smashed between Chevy and Cadillac. Chevy is not moving down but Cadillac will move up and in time will leave space but Buick. The real issue will be the time it will take to do this as it will not happen over night. In the mean time Buick is going to be living in a cramped space inbetween.

Good Eye!

This car made me say OMG Saturday at the Pontiac Nationals. See if you can figure out what is wrong here. Yes it is a late model Pontiac but it is not Holden based. I was walking the show field and had just got done looking at a friends 64 GTO from Colorado with a 06 GTO drive line and interior. It was even the same orange I then came across this car. At first I thought oh a 69 with a new GTO LS driveline but then I really looked at it and notices something was very wrong here. I will give some hints to see if anyone can guess what this really is. I will tell you what it's not. It's not a 69 GTO It's not a new version GTO It's not a Camaro or Trans Am. It is based on a Pontiac from the 90's. The car is all steel and does use real 69 GTO sheetmetal. There is over a 1,000 hours of metal work. The work on this car was OMG and even the trunk was detailed down to the correct placment of a GTO spare with the correct speckel paint. The car is tubed a little in the rear. This car drew a crowd all weekend and really drew attentiona and made everyone take note as it was just so different from a nearly identical real GTO judge one car away but smaller and a modern drivetrain. Ok you give up? It is not a RWD car originally. Ok are you ready this is a Pontiac Sunfire. The owner took a Sunfire and grafted metal bits from a real GTO [no it was not restorable] convert the Sunfire into this creation. It was turned into RWD with small tubs. The car comes out as a 3/4 GTO Judge. The car is nearly 8 inches more narrow as he removed 4 inches on each side of the bumpers hood and deck lid. The rear wing also was cut down. The Front fender, quarters and rear back light are all 69 GTO too. The only thing odd it the quarter window is a little larger than I would like but he kept the stock glass to keep it simple. It is amazing car and fast. The Pontiac Nationals again was a blast. It is still the largest Pontiac show in the world [1000+ show and race Pontiac cars] with a car show and racing all weekend. I was pleased for the second time in 2 years to claim one of the best in show awards from Ames Performance. Just try to get a 5 foot trophy home in a Fiero. It is good to have a buddy with a stock 64 GTO to haul it home for you LOL! Anyways OMG can also mean good things in a car. I have nearly seen it all and this one even made me go OMG. Life is to short to waste time and web space on ugly cars.

And yet people are willing to pay a premium for the Ecoboost V6. The fact remains the V8 will not be in wide use when we hit 53 MPG Cafe times unless someone can over turn it. Even now the companies have stopped fighting it. You also have to factor in the technology aspect. Many younger people today never grew up with a V8 and really could care less. They want technology in their engines and their electronics. They stopped counting cyllnders. Today most kids have a WRX poster on the wall and not a Camaro. Sad but true.

We will have to agree to disagree. At this point you don't know all what GM has going.. few people do. As for lag I did not say there was none but it is to the point few notice it anymore. More so in the TT engines. That is why they use two. Not only for space but for less lag of one large unit. The fact is with VVT and higher compressions the engines are pretty strong on the bottom end before the boost even hits. Also the new turbo's gain boost much eaiser. With just a crack of my throttle I can see 7 PSI instantly. Yes it may take a little longer for me to see 23 PSI but I can spin the tires on 7 PSI at 30 MPH. Who changes oil at 15,000 miles let alone 25000? I have 4 GM vehicles with the Oil life Monitor and they all reach change status at or about 7500-10000 mile 6.0 3.6, 3.0 NA or 2.0 turbo. The turbo is no less than any of the other. Clamps etc are would could or might. A V8 has two more cylinders and related coils and other parts that could fail. It also has a cylinder deactivation system that can fail. I call that a would of could of draw here. Most of todays engines do not use a run on pump as the turbo's are much better as well as the oils. GM seems to not have any issue putting turbo engines in nearly every 4 cylinder car they build now including cheap ones like the Sonic. There has been little to scare any buyers away. Ford has gotten people to pay more for these engines and wait for them to be build since they are selling fast. We have seen Ford recalls but nothing turbo related. While you are not new to turbo engines all the ones you named are old and not up to the standard of today. There was a time when 30,000 miles was the life of a turbo unit and not much more. Today auto makers know they would need them and have stepped up with better quality units. Today even the oldest 2.0 LNF are running over 100,000 with no issues. Yes there are a few that had issues but I can show you as many LS engines with issues too. The coming V8 is a very complex unit and has many many more things that can and will go wrong. It is not cheap to fix and while they call it a small block it is anything but. Like I have stated the new GM V8 is given a injustice by not being given a new name to set it appart. It is the best V8 they have ever done and shares only a few measuments. It deserves to be it's own engine. I too am not new to turbo engines. In years past I would not have touched one with a 50 foot pole. But things have changes and these units will be very very common in most non performance applications. Your V8 will be around but it will be in less and less vehicles and will cost more and more to control volume. The fact is smaller engines get better MPG just as lighter cars get more MPG. If the LS was the magic bullet that would get all the MPG they need for the future they would be sticking it in everything. The fact is pure and simple physics of volume are in play and the key to the future is to take the smallest engine and get the most out of it. Turbo's are here and will only grow more and more common. Who would have ever thought Ford would pretty much drop the V8 accept for the Mustang and trucks. I am sorry I am not going to say you are wrong but the industry as a whole does not agree with you. I like your thinking but it is counter to all that is going on. I wish there would be more and more 30+ MPG engines but it is not going to happen. I don't preach what I want I just voice what I see coming. There is a difference. The fact is other than the Trucks, Vette, Camaro, CTS and LTS I really see little in V8 engines for GM. Everything else will be 4-6 in NA and Turbo from. This is not what I want to see but what I expect. We are not far from that now so it does not take a Nostrodamas to see this coming.

The problem with a TT V6 is that:- An appropriate (450hp class) TT V6 does not yet exist so it'll have to be developed -- unlike the C7 V8 engine which will be ready to be plucked one ATS-V or no ATS-V . It does exist and is already testing in the new CTS. If it is developed there will be poor economies of scale because there will be no other application (a 360hp V6TT will be used for other vehicles Not true as it is planned for several Cadillacs and word it for the Camamro future Vettes and may find it's way into the trucks/SUV. It will have some degree of turbo lag however mild that turns out to be. Turbo lag is minimal today and with twin turbo's even more minimal. It will be more expensive than a Gen V Pushrod V8 May or may not be as we have yet to see the new gen V8 and the added technology that keeps it alive. The V8 is no longer the cheap cast Iron engine of old. At this point we don't know as you or I do not have the numbers. It will weight more than a Gen V Pushrod V8 It is pretty close in weight and not that much of an issue or they would not be building it. It will have a more demanding maintenance schedule than a Gen V Pushrod V8 As a present owner of a Tubo I have no extra maintenance than any other GM engine I have ever owned. Mobil One and that is it. It will be less desirable to some buyers But also more desirable to many other buyers. Those who dislike these engine for the most have never driven one. It won't have a power advantage to justify the above Unproven and much easier to extract more power for different applications. It won't have a big enough fuel economy advantage (if any at all) to justify all of the above I do agree not a big advantage but an advantage it is. In todays market 1 MPG alone is never overlooked by any MFG. The fact is Ford has proven that the EcoBoost is well accepted and profitable. They have proven it can run everythng from a Mustang, family sedan, truck and even durable enough for a Police car. Prices have remained good enough to not scare any buyer off. The cost to maintain has not proven any more or less. The Ford has proven that the moden turbo can do and last as well as anything else. Either way the TT V6 is coming and will be used much at GM and find it's way into many models.

The space for the CTS V needs to be protected. We want the ATS to be best in class but we do not want it to be a cheaper better alturnitive to the CTS. That is what hurt the STS is that the CTS was as good or better in many ways but it cost more. Why pay more for less of a car? In the past GM had this right where cars like the Nova were good but not as good as a Chevelle. Then the Chevelle was not as good as Impala. In todays market GM has not always made this progression work. Cadillacs need to grow with the owners with age and income. It would give people the ability to move up or remain where they are happy. As for 440 HP V8 don't bother in the ATS. If you can get a V8 in the ATS why would you want to move to the CTS? I would make the CTS offered with a V series V8 and a small V8 with the TT V6. While the ATS and CTS will share the underpinnings it will be important to make them different....as much different as they can but still keep a similar theme. Seeing the present CTS never had but one V8 I would be shocked to see the ATS to get one. The CTS and LTS are where the V8 belongs and the higher prices would help GM control the number of V8 engines sold. While they will offer them in the future smaller and smaller engines will be pushed more and more. Yes you can make arguments about the magic high MPG V8's but GM has already shown their hand as has Ford with limited use of V8's already. The TTV6 was shown a few years ago and it was around 420-430 HP and it got the same MPG as the non Turbo V6. I expect TT V6 engines to be seen in 380 HP-440 HP. The new V8 should be over this.

Increases can come from larger bores or longer stokes or both. Just depends on what you are working with and what you want to achieve. We sell all kind of stroker kits to make some pretty large SBC just with the crank. You also have to clearance the block and pan too in this case.

What GM needs to do it get those who call the shots down to a small group tha represents the different areas of GM and get them to work together. GM still has too many people doing things in different directions on different pages. Ackerson should be the benevolent dictator over trusted people that are let do what they do best but on the same page as each other. I still see too many going different ways and not working together. Engineering is doing fine and designe has been doing well. Now if we can only get marketing and product planning on the same page it would help. The key with Ackerson and those who answer to him should keep the lines of communication going both ways. As for the board memebers keep out unless you see something really wrong. There will be mistakes made no matter who calls the shots but if there are no mistakes there is not enough effort to try new things. If one was to look at most well lead companies there is always a strong leader and trusted people under them that remain in close contact. GM was lead by commitee too long. Back in the old days the Sloans were over a staff that knew what he wanted and were let do what they needed to do to meet or exceed these goals.

Nearly all trucks are a few inches higher in the rear. If not they all would be tail draggers iif you have anykind of a load. Most people do not like the tail low as in a truck often it is mistaken for a bad set of springs or a load in the bed. That is why I think this look is not seen outside the small low riders. God knows the second gen short bed S10/Sonoma had rear spring issues and for a few years they were seen with the tail down on nearly all. The first question always was whats wrong? I think GM put out a TSB but never recalled them. I am not sure how soon you need a truck but GM kicks in a good sale are rebate in Oct every year. Often it is enough to buy you the wheels. The GM SPO wheels are a must on these trucks.

We deal with a lot of performance customers and I have to agree the tail dragger on a truck is not something many want or like. They lower the tail to level but I can't say I have seen a tail dragging truck outside a small truck with hydraulics. If it was my project I would say do all of it but just level the truck and not drop it. If you want a tail dragger get a 64 Impala. But that is just me.

I took the Fiero on a 1.5 hour drive to the Pontiac Nationals today and was reminded how far GM has come. LOL! Bump steered that sucker 130 miles today and it is improved with a Herb Adams suspension. I still need to weld in the ball bearing rear busings and that should take care of it.

To be honest I never wanted a HHR, never wanted a FWD and never wanted a Turbo 4 but I made the mistake to drive the SS and I loved it so much in how it drove that I could not pass it up. It is great for beating to work and back getting 25 MPG city and 32 Highway. The crazy thing is I have owned severl old were Muscle cars and it is as fast as my old Tunnel Ram Chevelle and faster than my BBC GMC Sprint SP. The SS as I have it now is able to dip into the 13's if you can get traction and though I have not tested it stock it will do 153 MPH top Speed and with my added power it may be closer too 160 MPH. To be honest I really don't want to go that fast in a HHR. But the one thing many miss by never having driven one is how well The GM Performance Division tuned the suspension. This thing is amazing on back roads where the surface is uneven. You feel like your are just cruzing along and then you look at the speedo and find you may be 30 MPH faster than it feels. To me the mark of a well tuned suspension is that it feels like the car is slow but carrys a lot of speed. I find this in the 911. I was pleased to see that the guys that did the GMPD suspension work were put on the cars from the start and tune them right from the start and not just have to fix them after they hit the market. The new cars like the ATS, ZL1,1LE and even the Cruze are products from the same people who did all the work at GMPD. Guys like Mark Stielow and others have done some great tuning on the new GM products. I used to think the old Trans Ams were so great and now the new GM product show me how much they lacked. Even the cars with out the magnetic ride like the base ATS are getting praise.

I got one of these a few years ago just for the Fiero. I did not pay much. I too have seen these go for too much money on e bay.

Speaking with him would be great, I would love it. However, let me point out that even without the reflash the Cobalt SS TC was Eleven seconds faster around Virginia international than the NEW FASTER civic SI, 14 seconds faster than the VW Jetta GLI, 16 seconds faster than the MX-5 Miata, faster than the GTI, faster than the Golf R, faster than the WRX STI, faster than the previous Mustang GT, faster than a speeding locomotive....well you can't pull a train with the thing, but you get the point. Can't fault GM powertrain, and as hyper pointed out, they only have had gains since then. This engine is a mystery to many and even many here as few have driven one or driven one much. I make no concessions to using it daily and it drive very normal under regular conditions but the beast comes out when you want it. The flow of power comes in low and is smooth right to 5300 RPM. This engine does tings many V8 engines I have drive can do or in some cased can't do. The key though is with cars like the Regal the extra weight comes into play. Also Ford is now just getting to 253 HP with there engine and have shown they are looking to move up in the future. I would only have to assume GM is doing the same but is quiet on this as they are on most new coming products. They have shown they can do more HP easily and at some point it will come. GM driveline Rocks and is one of their strongest parts of the company. Also with any AWD additions they will want a little more power too. An ATS with AWD and a 325 Tubo 4 would be amazing. My only complaint on my daily driver is the FWD. It is limited at times and you have to rely on comp mode to hook it up. The weight transfer off the front wheels can be a pain at lower speeds. Most love it but I hate tire spin as that is where real performance is lost and expensive tires get wasted. LOL!

It is one thing to offer a tuner kit to enthusiasts and quite another to adopt such a tune across the board. Enthusiasts probably won't mind a split IC cap in 5% of the vehicles, and they will probably tolerate or even love an engine that does not reach full boost until 3000 rpm instead of 2000 rpm and is peakier in the sense that max power arrives sooner at 4800 rpm rather than 5500 rpm, or an engine that feels stronger at 5000 rpm than at 6300 (not as linear as stock). The general public wants the engine to feel like a very linear V6 like the 3.6 and cry bloody murder to consumer reports when a hose clamp leaks even though it is a $5 fix. I never claim that GM cannot tune the 2.0T to 300hp or even 340hp. I am saying that they probably don't want to considering that 270 already at the top of the class, is extremely linear with 234 lb-ft available from 1500 rpm to 5500 rpm (260 lb-ft @ peak) and is as reliable as they want it to be. First off the caps have split on the stock engines too and few complain as it is a small deal and they were replaced with better I/C under warranty,. Were talking 08 cars here. . From your comments you really have not driven the LNF with the upgrade have you? There is no peak issues and it is a linear flow of power from 2000 RPM and up. the only usse use is you have to learn not to over power the tires from stop to near 40 MPH as it will light them up if you step on it in a FWD. GM let the traction control not jump in as soon as they do on some cars. Owning and driving a upgraded Turbo dailly I can say that it is not an issue on RPM or how the power comes in,. Like stated the only issue is the upgrade removed the ability to use regular gas and why would you if you you had upgraded. GM has one of the best engines now but it will not stop there as others have now gotten to where they are at. In due time we will see 300-320 HP Turbo 4 cylinders and GM needs to lead this move or they will be left behind. I expect with the new Eco there will be a new upgraded performance version in time and we will see the added power. There is not one single reason to stop at 270 HP.

http://gmtunersource.com/racertech/ecotec-build-book Here are a few free dowloads on the Eco and while it is racer based it also gives you an idea of what this little engine can do. It is real data from real engineers at GM. The first book at the top is the best and give the levels of power most of the main parts will take. It is amazing how well built this engine is even is stock form. Note these books are a few years old and do not reflect the upgrades or the new gen Eco engines to come. That is why they are free.

You don't have to go into the petty details on what they can do as I know fuil in well what they can do as does everyone else here. Second the GM engines are not even as far as they can be pushed yet as we will see more power gains in some V6 and 4 applications. As for your vew on the 2.0 I can see you really do not know the engine well. The only issue with the 290 HP I have is the need for premium fuel with no regular option. On a Cadillac that should be no issue. The 260 HP with only a change in to Maps and a flash bump it to the 290 Hp and as much as 340 FT LBS in the Solstice 5 speed for less than $300. Oh the magic and ease of playing with boost. GM also found 2 more MPG and as damn near little lag as you will find. Note too GM also keeps the torque and HP in the same range. I have seen other GM performance versions and what they did some production ready and some not that span over 300 HP to 500 HP with ease. I see it not too far off that a company without a 300 HP plus 4 will be out of the game. These higher HP engines could still be treated to the programing that would limit power if regular was used so that option would still be in play. Note too there are already 2.0 Turbo's with well over 100,000 miles and the upgrade on them with no failures of turbo's or anything else. I have have seen a couple intercoolers split in the plastic caps. I wish you could speak to Bill Duncan GM Driveline Engineer. He is one guy that really knows GM engines and what they can do.

That has been my point where I would like to see Cadillac get different tunes to their engines that you can't get at Chevy. If you can not afford to make a totally different engine tune the Turbo to give more than a Chevy. While I love and own a 2.0 Tubo myself the idea of the same engine in the ATS to me cheapens the image a little. The least Cadillac could have done is tune it to 300 HP to make a statment over the 270 HP Buick. To tune to 300 HP would only require premium fuel and in a Cadillac V that should not be an issue. I am almost have 300 HP now and GM only limited it because of the transmission. Hell the Solstice even has 340 FT LBS of torque with the GM upgrade. The real truth is not everyone is in love with the V8 anymore. Yes it has a place but GM needs to get moving with the TT V6 and T 4 as Ford is selling many many cars with these engines and the EcoBoost marketing. GM has a better Turbo 4 but no one knows. It is time to market this engine as they should have if they had the money when they came out.