enzl

That's the issue though...So close...this stuff keeps people from converting to Pontiac from Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans..... It's just not enough to be close. You've gotta have a USP-Unique Selling Point--and it just isn't there for the G6. It's an also-ran, and nobody raves about the guy in 2nd place....we're a 'front-runner' mindset today.

Where are you guys in some of the other posts? They're killing me. Bathazar- You seem like a bright guy...why is it that GM's shortcomings being pointed out scream bias to you? I Don't think there should be 4 sp. autos in $40k or higher cars or trucks. Corvette's should have world class interiors (cost:$750.00) to match their performance. Saab-should never have been starved for product when the whole world is going to economy/premium brands, with little room in between. Fiat- 'nuff said. I could go on, but I've gotta work. It's just sad to me.

Unbelievable that subjective rationale like appearances wouldn't influence buyers. (ahem) I guess they're just like those mean reviewers at C&D! Toyota has earned an enviable reputation, as their products have become, whether posters here admit it or not, the gold standard and, thus, the default choice of many consumers....newsflash: most people treat their car purchase like choosing an appliance, not an enthusiast's POV. Toyota's are not exciting, but the promise (if not the actual reality) of reliability and quality are all that most people need. GM has earned their turn in the barrel. Perception takes time to catch up with reality in the marketplace...while GM's current offerings are vastly superior to the 80's & 90-'s, time must pass for the news of Detroit's quality turnaround to convert into actual sales. Oh, and Autoextremist.com called, they want $1.00 for the blatant, uncredited ripoff of one of their signature put-downs (notgonnahappen.com)

I only used 0-60 as an example...I agree that the objective, measured data indicated that the G6 is more than competitive. It's clear that the subjective failings were to blame for its final score, so to speak. To me, its the details that bedevil GM...plastics (subpar in many areas), engineering (that the G6 isn't available with the 2.8 turbo or 3.6 V6 is criminal, steering feel like a nintendo with electric assist), half-baked ideas (4 panel sunroof that adds weight & is ratty at 15-20K like the SRX) and, to top it off, a price which NEEDS huge (10-15% retail) rebate to move metal (and kills the inevitable internet comparos that the target audience uses b4 walking into a dealer!) I readily admit that their Opinions are anti-GM, but I would argue there are subjective reasons why they do 'hold water' in the real world.

Buick is huge in China...it's not going anywhere. GM will force the rest of its uncombined GMC/Buick/Pontiac stores to join before they chop a brand. I've read it cost GM almost $2billion (& counting) to close Olds. I doubt that they'll go that route again... I think you'll see a sale of Saab or their share of Suzuki or Isuzu before anymore US brands are chopped. The bad PR alone isn't worth it.

Here's the problem with your argument: C&D, as well as other decent auto rags, are full of OPINIONS! If 0-60 times and the like were all that mattered in a purchase, then the argument that the G6 was equal or superior would be supported, easily. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. If the 'feel' or the overall character of a car is not to C&D's liking, it'll get a bad review. That's C&D's take on it. And, I've got news: Lots of other publications have been less than kind to the G6....and, quite frankly, its not a class leading product. Not even close. GM apologists are stretching reality to argue otherwise. Look, I've got no axe to grind and I have the deepest respect for those that are passionate about GM....but, to me, its like being a smoker...you can deny it is dangerous and won't kill you, but the truth is that a behavioral change is needed to avert disaster for the smoker. Ignoring GM's shortcomings is an epidemic within the organization and, unfortunately, the G6, GTP or otherwise, is not the product is could or should be, just like most of the pre-Lutz era product. I drive hundreds of cars each year. I work for an organization that depends upon GM to put out competitive product-NOW-. It's a tragic error to blame the messenger for the message.

This is exactly the thinking that has doomed GM to its present position in the barrel: While there's no arguing volume, its the profitability of the LX's that is paramount. The acclaim and halo effect are just by-product of inspired thinking. If GM doesn't have the money to invest in B,C or small D segment RWD vehicles, they should just close up shop....they are literally introducing 4 new/improved CUV platforms in the next 2 years....they don't have 1 small/medium RWD....& if volume is the rallying cry, bear in mind that Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall and, arguably, Caddy could all use a 3-series or smaller RWD class-killer in their line-up. They would sell at a premium in showrooms and the brands mentioned could easily sell 500,000 worldwide, with out breaking a sweat. Don't make excuses, they need to have their thinking caps on right now....

Valid points all...except, at the end of the day, they are picking it last...so I guess they would be explaining their position, since anyone who flips over to the spec or performance info could see the Pontiac was certainly in the ballpark. The truth is that the G6, for whatever reasons, was not quite up to their, admittedly subjective, standards. If I'm not mistaken, the G6 sales have been on an upswing and, it seems that Pontiac has started to reverse its slide into the abyss, so, I'm not sure that this article, about vehicles that are a small slice of the overall sedan pie...i.e 'performance, inexpensive 4 doors" ...are really going to sway too many buyers. We're talking about 50K total of all of these vehicles in a market segment that is in the millions. Is C&D biased? Yes. They like cars for reasons that a very small subsection of buyers would 100% agree with. For everyone else, I don't think it means that much.

If you look at a majority of C&D's tests over the years, they tend to use subjective critierion in tests like these. Sometimes that works in your favor, sometimes not. They are an opinionated journal. If they don't share your enthusiasm for GM products...although they have raved about the Tahoe, the Solstice, the 'vette....that doesn't make them wrong, it just means they don't share your opinion of the product in question. I think that anyone who has spent time in any of these cars (and I have, in one form or another), would consider the G6 a vast improvement over its predecessors, but its not a class leader....the quality of materials is still not at Honda, Acura or VW levels in terms of first impression and, IMO, the mechanicals are simply not as cohesive as some of the other cars in this test...the GLI, while ugly, has been universally praised worldwide, the TSX, while a gussied up Euro-Accord, is a sweet handler and exudes quality. even the Accord, while sterile, has an indefinable quality to it that the G6 doesn't...yet. Opinions are like A%^holes, everyone's got one and most of 'em stink. This article, while not entirely positive for Pontiac, does mention alot of positive attributes and the objective categories clearly have been achieved by GM, at the least.

C&D is biased towards sporty cars...clearly, they didn't think enough of the G6's performance numbers to outweigh other deficiencies...(I will concede that the wind noise should have been ignored, since they ignored brake failure in the 3-series comparo win the month before) I think the author wasn't too harsh...I don't know what you guys drive on a regular basis, but I'm pretty sure that a TSX or GLI, given similar MSRP's, are superior values to the G6. Noone's buying that car within $4k of sticker, whereas the TSX and VW go for near sticker...

I think the upcoming Suzuki XL-7 may be both a Theta based project and a 7 seater...which may preview what you're talking about...

Who cares? It's really just a psychological issue, rather than a business issue. what's more disturbing is the losses sustained during a year of near-record car sales across the globe! Toyota's been eating GM's lunch for years...only now the press they're getting is disturbing? It's more disturbing that the so-called experts running the Big 2 haven't prepared or foreseen this day....

I find it hard to believe it took the Camaro unveiling for GM to figure out this platform should be greenlighted & front-burnered. I could see the following off of this Aussie-led platform: 1. Holden 5 dr. (like the one they've been showing for years), built with a 5 dr Saab flagship as an international model. 2. GTO/Camaro built stateside in one of the underutilized truck plants that have recently been revamped. 3. Statesman type sedan goes to Holden and Buick as a 'Roadmaster', reconfigured to be a top flight superluxo cruiser...think Audi version, and you've got a Pontiac Grand Prix/Bonnie replacement. Just my guess..gotta fit a top-flight Opel in there somewhere as well.

The Ghosn hype is over. Fearless Prediction: Renault's current struggles and the effort to fix it will destroy all further progress for Nissan. They'll have another auto company aligned with them within 3 years.

CTS- Needs a coupe/vert option, like the 3,A4 and others... S/7/A8 competitor- RWD, kick ass machine priced under the competition. Large Coupe- traditional Caddy product currently missing from the brand...You gotta believe eldo & coupe d'ville guys are waiting for one..perhaps link its development with the S-class vehicle to strtch development $?

This thing is ugly...flat out uninspired and unoriginal.

They look great. They just don't feel so hot... I'm currently in an 2000 Audi and the quality of this high-mileage car is, literally, 10x the tactile and material quality in the new Saabs. Saab needs to have Audi/Lexus quality interiors, IMO. The prices are dangerously close to high-line competition to half-ass the interior bits and pieces....Ironically, its the exclusively Saab plastics, like all the buttons on the center stack, that are the biggest offenders. The generic GM radio and other common components actually seem OK... If saab was significantly less expensive or was a default alternative like BMW, it would be one thing. I just don't see import intenders walking into a Saab showroom and being blown away by their seat time.

I'm not seeing what you guys are...I could see picking up one of these after someone else took a hit on the depreciation, but I'm not overwhelmed with paying for an inferior sport sedan. These things have awful interior plastics, FWD and, as a former Saab 900 owner, I think they lost their way with the change to a sedan (notice how the world is going back to hatches?). In two years, these things are, literally, a steal. As a new car purchase, I see more value in the G35, IS or 325. If FWD is a need, I'd look at the Acura TL.

http://thetruthaboutcars.com/content/11369...89408/index.php I used to think that this site was somewhat useful.... Has anyone seen this?

Good job Buick! Love to know how they are going to price this thing....will it sit right on top of the Lucerne ($27-45)? Anyone know? Are the Outlook or the Arcadia going to look significantly different? I hope so. Badge engineering could hurt the Buick, if its sitting in the same showroom as a GMC.

This car is not a home run, in my book, but is of interest to all luxury makes for one reason: This car just shows that Lexus listens to its customers (and the criticisms of its competitors.) The cars may be somewhat boring, but they react to customers wants and needs better than anyone out there! Ex. -Buttons: no iDrive or MMI...the old people that buy these vehicles do not want to take a course in order to learn how to drive their car. -Styling-Inoffensive and conservative interpretation of Lexus' new design language. Nothing here that will scare off customers. No Bangle butt, no clownish wheelarch extensions, no sharp creases and folds) -Best ideas are taken from others, refined and applied: Optional Rear seats look suspiciously like a Maybach, 8 gear auto (why just have 7 in your MB?) Just the short list. I would never own a car like this, but I would probably have no problem recommending it (unlike the S or 7, which are not built to last.) If GM is listening, why not quiet tune the new Zeta, stretch it out and provide an LS for Buick money (say $40-45k) with better styling. A new Park Avenue?

Just the opposite, escape gets better city mileage b/c of the nature of its hybrid design...31 city/26 hwy. The mild hybrid in the Vue doesn't operate alone, but rather as a secondary source of power...

Which is EXACTLY where the market(s) all over the world are going! LR, GMC, MB & Toyota all have rich truck history and are all introducing their 1st, 2nd or 3rd gen. CUV's....while Jeep is exposing itself to accusations of watering down their image, then the same argument would be needed against Porsche & the abomination known as the Cayenne....

Interesting theory about Employee Pricing & the drop in sales after it ended: Perhaps the fact that the dealers had their profits sliced thin on the Employee Pricing made them LESS likely to deal when it ended...so not only was there less product to sell, there was also a need to 'catch-up' on per-unit profitability. The Best of the best dealers run margins of 1-3% as net profit. The EPP reduced the amount you could make on any given vehicle.

Quite the opposite. Tradition aside, its exactly where the market is going & these things can sell at their size internationally, without change. Jeep has resonance as a brand across the world. it's actually so simple, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.