enzl

If we're getting back to the original topic.... These cars HAVE to get made. The market is fracturing into smaller, more specialized runs of vehicles anyway. I'm assuming the the planned run of 100k produced (or less) will become the norm...I can't imagine a situation where a series of differentiated RWD products are a bad idea....If GM can do with the Zeta what DCX has done with the Caliber plant, there's plenty of room for a great mix of Chevy & Buick sedans, a GTO & the Camaro at one plant... The columnist is dead wrong. The 400k seller is a dying breed....

Another apologist...just what this board needs!There's no doubt that GM does alot of things well...unfortunately, a vehicle is made up of more than its transmission, A/C or engine....

Toyota has never been a trend setter, just a company with the ability to identify trends and leverage their technology to maximize the results... The RAV4, RX300, LS400 and MR2 are all good examples of the above...obviously there were cute-utes, car based 4x4's, luxury 4 doors and affordable mid-engine cars before...but rarely has any single company been able to take these ideas and convert them into segment defining products. To criticise Toyota for being unoriginal is hypocritical for this site. GM hasn't been at the forefront of a trend in 30 years....A new car/truck is a multi million dollar gamble, thus those that are nimble and accurate trump those that are slow-witted and preoccupied...

It gets back to the question of "Good Enough" not being good enough...although the competition is by no means perfect (in different respects each), they each bring something to the table: Toyota= flawless reliability, Mazda= sporty economy, etc...what does the Epsilon family bring to the table??? Remember, these are cars to 'change minds' about GM products...but are they converting customers back to GM? The answer, unfortunately, is no. This doesn't make them bottom feeders or inadequate, it just goes to show how far the perception of GM products has fallen...you've got to turn heads and surprise and delight customers with Unique Selling Points. All of the Epsilons fail to do that in any meaningful way...

>>"People think jets are cool"<< Maybe this will work, but I doubt it. A vague 1947 reference for another unrealted portion of the parent company shouldn't carry much weight in 2006. It's like Pontiac advertising the Corvette or something. Here's my problem...why is the head marketer using the term 'Cool'...did he miss the 1990's catch phrase seminar?? Jets are cool...my 7 yr. old nephew is applying for a job as we speak...

A GXP, with most options, is over $32,500 on Pontiac.com...leasing (how a majority of BMW/A4 get sold) evens the playing field, since the residual value is, conservatively, 15 points higher after 3 years...which, on a $30K vehicle, means a comprably equipped 3 or A4 could be about the same price via lease...) I wouldn't use the possibility of $5k in incentives (a 20% discount!) as a selling/bragging point....that's not what puts fannies in the seats...

For the GTO, I think it was a marketplace failure & didn't really provide alot of 'excitement' despite its overall excellence. I believe it was mispriced and mismarketed, but that's my take. The g6 GTP is not going to set the market afire at 26-30k....it needs a $2k haircut off the top, IMO. A huge portion of GP sales are fleet...the Comp G & its successor couldn't be more than 10% of total sales...I just hope you don't have to trade-in that badboy...they lose 50% in about 18 months...thats scary stuff. As a daily driver, I'm sure its great (I've driven mostly the rental grade GP's, so I can't fully comment), but Pontiac's hopes of the GP as a BMW/Audi fighter are hopeful at best (a fully loaded GP V8's gotta be $32-35, right? Hand me the 325/a4 keys, please. I'll give you that the raw numbers are impressive for the GP....I'm just not sure its an example of 'best effort' from the General. (I honestly didn't know you owned one...I wasn't trying to insult you...(this time : )

You had me agreeing 100%, until the last two paragraphs..... 1.The GTO, while a great product, has not been a 'success' by most accounts. 2. Who's anxiously waiting for a G6 GTP? It'll have a rebate on the hood upon arrival to dealerships... 3. The GP won what? Can you reference or link a comparo test the GP has won...its a fleet car with a number of loyal fans outside of Enterprise... 4. Friendly Suggestion-If you're going to make a point of someone else making a point...you should be accurate...or at least realistic...

We'll see about the new Tundra...however, they just sold the most ever last year, IIRC, about 125k, and an average of 100k yr....

I think its hit or miss throughout the lineup as well......GM has made HUGE gains in this area, but many of their products have a way to go to...DCX seems more inclined to limit quality interiors to its more risky 'space concept' vehicles like the PT or the Pacifica, perhaps hoping to convert sedan or SUV intenders on a showroom visit? or via a ride they got from their neighbor?

Chrysler is looking to get back into the Police market with both this and the Magnum....I believe our fleet guy has already bid the Chargers out to a couple of PD's...

While I completely agree that the base 300's have some awkward moments (especially in certain colors), I have trouble coming up with many competitors whose base models are especially strong lookers. Just the RWD proportions of all of the LX's help their stance, IMO.

Shhhh....you're not allowed to criticize GM here, didn't you read the sign? In all seriousness, since when does 'best selling', in any field, immediately imply 'best'. McDonald's sells more hamburgers than anyone. Are they the best burgers out there? The problem that the apologists on this site have is that they're too busy justifying and excusing....they see constructive criticism as a negative. I find it hard to believe that with 9 million sales worldwide, GM can't muster the effort to produce a quality RWD platform that can be sold for below $30,000, other than the brand new Kappas (which they can't produce in a quantity large enough to become a mass market vehicle). If you think about it for a minute, they've had 30+ years to identify the 3 series as a target to shoot for. Hell, BMW has used the same component set to produce the 1-series at a profit...It's incompetence at the highest levels and, to me, inexcusable....

It's only embarassing when you used to have 50%. Although, to be fair and to showe how numbers can be twisted, GM makes/sells as many cars now as back in its heyday, only the market is much larger. I don't believe the bankruptcy scenario is likely...but all bets are off if the union refuses to cave or an extended strike at Delphi occurs...

Fearless prediction: It's a preview of the Minivan....they're floating styling themes...

100% Correct as to the media's fascination with the 'it bleeds, it leads' mentality.I just cannot, for the life of me, drum up sympathy for those that put themselves in the spotlight and then whine when the monster they created turns on them. It happens with celebrities, politicians, companies, etc...my point is that this situation could/should have been avoided. All that we're seeing now is inevitable result of reaping what you sow. I understand that many on this board are sympathetic to GM's plight. I feel that there are too many families, too many communities and too many people that have been negatively affected by GM's incompetence to let them off the hook. If I'm wrong, then fine. It takes exactly the same amount of money to put out a 'good' design vs. 'a bad' design. Why spend millions on lawyers to fight EPA regs on emissions when the greater LA basin is being swallowed by smog? These are acts which I cannot forget, but I'd forgive GM if they learned from their mistakes. It's clear (to me) that they haven't...Again, I don't wish this fate on them, nor to I get joy out of their pain, butas someone with my future and my living and my money on the line, I just won't let it go.

>>"He may not, deep down, even believe it himself."<< This is NOT reporting, it is witch-hunting. Garbage, damaging garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with the Citation. enzl- open your eyes and stop sucking down the rhetoric! Way too much partiality in 'journalism' today. I'm not saying the writers are prophets (& you rightfully point out the cheap shot at Rick), nor have I made the statement that all of their viewpoints are 100% accurate, however...I'm not surprised to find that if the auto rags aren't after you, the general media is! (cue creepy music) If one exhibits delusions of persecution in life, he/she eventually get meds or help or locked up....I addressed this in another post, but I'll repeat for those who missed my previous rant: What is the more likely scenario: The media is out to get GM. They've all engaged in a conspiracy to what end? or GM has some severe problems. All of which have been begrudgingly admitted in one form or another all over this board. In lots of ways-product, financial, employee relations, union militancy, etc...(and, all of the press that covers these angles covers it. SHOCKER. & it sells copy because the formerly largest corporation on the planet is on the ropes. I'm not rooting for GM's demise my friend...I guarantee I have more riding on GM's success than you. I'm just calling it like I see it.

Much better than the X90 (I hope).....

No. It's a joint-venture with Fiat....I think it'll be produced in Ploand, IIRC. The Euro Swift would make a great, cut-rate Mini competitor here...CAR mag just gave it their car of the year award....

While the tone certainly isn't positive, it seems that the vast 'media conspiracy' is again taking the blame when GM management and the unions should....these are mistakes of GM's own making! Not one of these writers 'made' GM produce mediocre product or made GM's union contract or hiked gas prices....they're reporting the news, and, like it or not, its not a pretty picture. Also, while the January numbers were better than expected, they were artificially inflated via large fleet deliveries and they did not rise proportionate to the market in general, resulting in a loss in Market Share....That's partially why they got very little attention

I will confess I haven't read the article...but it sounds like a good review overall.... ...plus, isn't the target market for this machine the old LeSabre/PA crowd? There's plenty of people for whom this machine makes perfect sense... Listen, if the quality is there, and a couple of 2nd yr. upgrades like a tilt/telescope steering wheel and the 6 sp. auto are on the way, that's not too bad. This car isn't aimed at BMW owners...unfortunately, BMW is C&D's preference, which really isn't where this car (or Buick's line-up) is going anyway...

Traceinda becomes an 'insider', thus bound to the same buy/sell rules as other directors...it will be interesting.Am I alone in thinking York may help things, since his background is in rescue of these types?

Could do one on the EpII long wheelbase, classic cues with long wheelbase to balance a '65 Rive style coupe...could work....

I'll assume you agree with the rest of my quick list then? Saab is 'upscale'. Euro fashion has run this direction for years...the death of the mid-market brand has had a head start in Europe....GM never read those tea leaves right...nor the Euro switch to diesel....nor Fiat's disasterous financial condition...nor Subaru's unwillingness to abandon the pancake engines for GM or Rudolf Diesel?.... Saab could have been sharing components with Opel for years...noone would have complained....Saab should have had an SUV or outback type vehicle years ago (and what would that have cost???)....Saab went away from 5 doors when all the growth was in 'em (SUV's are a hatchback on steroids)!!! Nah. GM maximized that investment. rolleyes.

I don't mean to rain on the parade, but the numbers have been helped by unusually high sales to fleets for Jan.... Doesn't change some of the positives, but it tempers my optimism a little.