enzl

Maxx, easily. You should be able to negotiate a great deal with little trouble...and, you can get an SS for less than the LTZ model...

I haven't read anything about the future of iDrive....but I'm pretty sure, based on the investment involved, as well as other German maker's use of similar systems, it will be altered but not eliminated. I think it'll be interesting to see what chnages occur in the chassis and unibody...the current 5/6 series has had issues with minor accidents becoming total losses because of the aluminum frame used in the front end and its bond with a steel skeleton not holding up very well.

The industry stuff I have read indicates that the new 7 will be all new chassis with updated engines and the new 'small' Rolls to compete with Bentley will be developed off of this platform as well...there also may be a BMW above the 7, slotted between the baby Rolls and the new 7.

This looks an awful lot like a chop with the face of a Saab on the Ford GR1 concept...anyone else see that ?

The Dakota is nasty...and the Durango as well....I think MB's inexperience with badge engineering has benefitted the divergent appearance of the LX's (even if they aren't traditionally 'handsome')...I would expect that the Pacifica, Caravan and T&C would be somewhat different, more along the lines of the Caliber, Compass & Patriot....DCX is fully committing to fully flexible manufacturing, which is why I predict Chrysler product coming out of the MB Ala. factory within 7 yrs...

This would take a lot of effort, wouldn't work well until at least the second generation of product.......but as seen with Cadillac, a brand can go from geriatric to cool as fast as you can say what the hell is that new car [CTS] and where did GM inherit this platform from [sigma]. This, along with some of the marketing metrics mentioned above, are exactly why Saturn desserves support. Amongst the 'enthusiast' sites, Saturn products don't register, but, I suspect, most Honda, Toyota & VW's really don't either... ...Saturn's non image is exactly what many consumers like...I think GM is shooting for the 'designer' Target (stores) crowd....they want clever, interesting design in a useful package, at a reasonable price. Most Americans are proud of a 'smart' buy...and designer looks with utility is where most consumer products are going, regardless of cost...

I just thought the spypic was Chrysler's Voyager/TC & the Rampage is the Dodge, just based on the FWD oriented distance from the cabin to the front wheel centerline...

Happy with the Odyssey?? I've gotten mixed reviews from friends....

Wow. The wagon ??Is that fully optioned??? Not bad. I'm assuming with a subvented lease, that number drops even further?I was thinking 2.8T wagon, with a moderate amount of options...$35.9K MSRP with Metallic Paint, Touring pkg, Cold pkg....I just checked the site... 31 w/incentives???? I think a $25k 2.0t might be more attractive....

I was agreeing with you and commenting on some of the other posters rediculous positions on this niche of the market....I should've separated the commentary better....(I can understand the defensiveness, the way you can get jumped on here when you have an opposing viewpoint) My bad. I didn't check the formatting when I posted.... (As a side note: I hate SUV's on principle, the CUV's bother me an order of magnitude less, I guess, so I'm not shilling for the RAV4.)

Ironically, a 5dr., 2.8 turbo, 6 speed sport sedan is just being made available at your local Saab dealership....for a mere $35k....I'd settle for the 6 sp. and a Sky roof similar to the SRX's...the potential is clearly in the chassis make this a great buy at $25k...I guess if you wait a year, you'll be able to get the Saab in a CPO program for about that....

We've had a Maxx for months....but the Sedan, in the same electric blue, sold in about a week at full sticker...which is actually less than some of the LTZ's in stock... IIRC, all 'bu SS's have the black interior....

I haven't seen anything that dissuades me from thinking this is the next Caravan....the Hemi was rumored to go FWD with the Caravan, so why not float the new style here, just to be sure they're not far off for their bread n butter product. If you compare the spyshots of the Minivans w/ the Rampage, I believe the front half lines up almost perfectly... http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/...avan-spy-photos

Agreed. I'm assuming that somebody at GM did a ton of Market research regarding the 'perception' of the Saturn Brand....otherwise, it makes no sense. ...I have a feeling it resulted in more people who had 'positive associations' or a large % of 'I would consider a Saturn' relative to the older GM divisions.... remember, GM's association with Saturn has been downplayed until recently. My best guess is that Chevy, Pontiac, Buick and Olds just have too many people saying "I would never consider a _______".

It's unbelievable that an argument could be made that the RAV4 doesn't set the bar higher... Let's see, off the top of my head: -Most powerful available Engine in its class -Available 3rd row seating -Standard side airbags and ESP on EVERY model! -ULEVII engines That's not enough...that took me 10 seconds....the RAV4 may not be your cup of tea (and I'm not a big fan)...but at least let's pretend we live in reality... Here's the pertenant question to be posing: What GM product comes close to this Toyota product?....Answer, the 200X whatever...'cause it doesn't exist yet, unless you're spending 45k on the new GMT900's...I know, it'll be here next year and it'll be way better than that Jap piece of s$%^! I know, I'm a hater....cause I point out the obvious...

I think the Nox & Torrent are good vehicles....especially in light of their space vs. the immediate competition. -The China-sourced V6 bums me out a little... That being said, I can't see choosing one of these over a comparably priced RAV4....the new RAV, while not as good looking, has resolved its space deficit and has a monster V6.

Just making a point. Easy hoss...I just think the whole starting point of this thread was a weakly thought-out position. Obviously, making a wagon taller and heavier than its more 'carlike' bretheren will hurt its abilities ( to be a car for enthusiast drivers)....but I'm pretty sure that history has proven Toyota correct with the Rav4, RX & Highlander driving a large part of Toyota's success in the past few years... The question should have been- Why hadn't they gone to the well again sooner?

So now GM should be emulating MB?C'mon brother...this has nothing to do with that topic....the Torrent is a GM move from the old days....the Cobalt clone G4,G5, whatever, is only rubbing salt in the wound.

Hello? McFly..... ...Toyota has become the default choice of a generation....on this board, cars are a passion, for most people, its like a Maytag or other appliance. They now buy Toyotas (and other non-US nameplates) because they've been pushed there. Toyota will hurt Honda & Nissan soon...right now the former big 2.5 customers are just 'low hanging fruit.'

The Hatchback has had its revenge! That's all a CUV is, really...again, one of the reasons GM is in the position they are in is because of an inability to identify New Niches in a timely manner...it doesn't surprise me that one of the Mods here is just as shortsighted.

They're both just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with this type of BS. Odds are they'll both be arguing about 2nd in a few years anyway. This, my friends, is a Non-troversy.

I've got to agree that the posting was somewhat misleading...Can't you leave this 'retraction' post on the homepage to get the correct info out to casual readers?

Anoth knee-jerk reaction to dealer complaints....there's nothing wrong with the Cobalt, but a badge job is dissappointing... ...now if this fills a gap until a 4 seat Kappa is made available, I'm willing to forgive them...but just barely.

It's up on Edmunds right now! That's really scary, if true. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109327

Can these reports be accurate? MY 2010 means it can't be sold until Jan. 1, 2009, right? That's crazy. people here have been reporting an 18-24 month timeframe. Anyone know?