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Or, C & D has a point and the biased here at C&G are needlessly bashing C & D. Do you really think a dated architecture has any place on one of GM's best selling vehicles in the heart of the market??? Is the Impala excellent for what it is? Absolutely. The problem lies in the assumption that its competitors have stood still or not advanced the game a few steps. As to the Accord or Camry, I don't even consider them the problem, its the 300/Charger/Magnum that make GM look silly and unimaginative...tell me that GM couldn't use another model that sells at a higher price point. The current Impala is still a rental car queen. GM sold 30% of its 1st quarter inventory to fleet users...that SS buyer is going to kill himself come trade-in time....the car will be worth as much as used tin-foil...Is that what GM really wants for its customers?

Toyota absolutely will accept warranty claims for cars with maintenance done outside....as long as you keep the receipts...which is what most manufacturer's insist upon...We own a Toyota store. Plenty of warranty work is done on outside cars...I just have to call BS on you because you're pulling it on someone else!The only unbiased part of your rant is that every service rep will put through whatever you bring in the door. Money is money, whether from Manufacturer or owner.

As does this:http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/21/news/compa...dex.htm?cnn=yes I love the Kappas...its too bad that the platform can't be more useful at this time....a 200k sellout would make a difference to the bottom line, plus, put more fresh, inventive and exciting product on the street to counteract the perception that only rental car companies and gov't agencies are buying GM mainstream product.

In the press, the maxim 'if it bleeds, it leads' controls most decisionmaking...another juicy nugget, FYI....http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/21/news/compa...dex.htm?cnn=yes GM takes 1 step forward and 2 back with each move. I think the time for more inventive, fresh blood has arrived....

Firstly- The Kappas are great. No doubt. A milestone for current GM business practices....however, there's a gigantic 'but'.... The decision to build them at a trickle makes claims of a 'hit' because it's UNDERproduction sold out a hollow warcry. Period. If I make 25% of the previous capacity in a facility, I haven't begun to scratch the surface of what is needed. I was pointing out that GM can't even have a success without a corresponding failure (and they can't afford that...ask the guys out in Okla. that used to make 360 EXT's...).Second- as to the list of vehicles above... I conceded the Kappas, the 'vette and the GMT900's already....which, based on a total output of over 75 different vehicles, is a 4% appeal rate, but I digress.... Silverado-dead in its current form, albeit competitive. We haven't seen the new ones yet, so hold the accolades... GTO-dead in its current form, just as it got good with the delicious 400hp engine-but it still looks like a Cavalier 2dr. from certain angles and it took an act of God (or Lutz), just to get it here in the first place. So, you added 50% to my totals...that's about 6%. I'll add in the CTS, CTS-V, STS-V and, my personal favorite, the SRX..that brings us up to a generous 10-12% of the entire GM line-up... You just made my point for me.... Additionally, can you say with a straight face that the 350z,RX8, Miata, IS,G, S2000, Si, GS, FJ, Tacoma, et al...have NO appeal??? If you wouldn't ever consider a Japanese make, then yes. But that doesn't mean, objectively, that these products aren't highly worthy of consideration.

I may be in the minority, but I think it's poor GM planning, not that these products are hits.... I mean, how many Kappas can be built this year? I've heard 40k, including Opels...they should be selling out! I do, however, buy into the halo car theory. Hopefully, that is something that with materialize into greater sales for Pontiac and Saturn, but its hard to quantify.

NO. However, I tend to believe that Robert Riech, as a public figure, has less of an axe to grind than an anonymous poster on a web site...You were just accusing competitors of using untoward practices- I linked to an article accusing GM of the same...am I to assume that you were actually complimenting their superior skills with your original point? Seems an odd way to do it--or, more likely, an untenable position made more so by facts? Sorry if you find me condescending---just make it harder to prove you incorrect, and I promise I'll stop. You've picked at me a few times and than scurried for cover under the standard GM-hater taunts...It's just not true----I'll agree to a truce, but if you give it, you've got to be able to take it....

PR failures are part of GM's problem. They are a symptom of a disease ('Don't rock the boat-itis' along with a touch of the 'wait until next year' flu)that has festered within the organization for so long that they may have forgotten how to put out the very product they need to save themselves.That's scary.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../604210374/1148 Just in case you felt GM was playing by a more ethical set of rules than those evil Japanese.....

You're right...there always has been better product, just not so many choices that are also better.The limited edition Kappas are sold out because of that fact....the Wilmington plant will put out less than 40,000 cars in '06....the capacity at that plant was over 200k in its heyday! ---That's BAD planning by GM, not something I'd brag about. Newsflash: People aren't buying either Buicks or Toyota Avalons because of their skidpad numbers... You call 'em grudges, I say its simple common sense: I (meaning joe 6-pack) got burned by my ________(insert 1980-1998 GM, Ford, VW, whatever)---why would I take a chance with $20-50K of my hard earned cash with the _________(insert same name as before) when a perfectly nice, reliable (as per everyone but some of the posters here) Toyota/Honda will shuttle me and my 2.5 kids to soccer practice every day. You are asking people to ignore good old fashioned common sense, something most Americans have in abundance, even if they don't know skidpad figures... And, just to reinforce my feeling that you speak from passion and not logic, I quote the most absurd part --"the cars and trucks for the most part are fine, and i truly believe its an effective compaign by the competition to convince otherwise"--- yes-you've discovered advertising and PR---c'mon dude....you never saw a commerical for anything that compared other competing products negatively...

You make a ton of valid, excellent points, but the problem is that the product does not meet or beat expectations....yes, the mindless masses seek guidance, but there still has to be fire underneath the smoke to maintain life...to stretch the metaphor.In the opinion of myself and many others, the latest crop of GM stuff, barring the limited production models and the GMT-900's, are just not world-beaters...they don't have the tangibles down to even bother with the intangibles. Ex. Aura-great, award winning concept-mediocre, half-hearted execution that LOOKS like lots of other stuff on the road. You could've thrown a grenade at the Auras at the NY Auto show and not killed a soul! G6 'vert- Where is it? I've seen production-ready photos for 18 months! G5-need I say more??? At least give us a hatch or a Kappa sedan, please! Lucerne- 4 speed auto on a $35k+ car...c'mon Where's the Camaro? Where's RWD anything other than trucks? Why do Caddy interiors pale in comparison to Audi interiors? And the list goes on.... These are the facts. Hard to accept, perhaps, but true. Denial only perpetuates the problem. I hope GM can do it and certainly the latest Wall Street numbers are encouraging, but they are only a start down a long road....

I'm one of the naysayers (or truth-tellers, depending upon your perspective.) I love GM. Fell in love with cars in large part because of 70's TransAms (Screaming chickens, Smokey & the Bandit, et al.), Corvettes and an endless fascination with the tragic arc of DeLorean's career/life. The child beating analogy would be accurate only if we were doing something to punish that exceeded the perceived offense- We're just expressing an opinion, on a site whse motto is 'fresh ideas for a better GM' ...for all of you who are crowing about 'No Japanese cars appeal to me'--tell me which GM products turn you on? Other than the brand new GMT900's, the 'vette and the Kappa twins, what product is GM serving that gets you excited? (You may need to get out more.) Most importantly- Things have to get better at GM or the ship is going down. This isn't an intellectual exercise or a hypothetical...there are REAL people, experts in their fields, that are predicting GM's demise. The same old, same old of rental car interiors, fleet sales propping up entire factories' production and the presumption that 1 out of 2 shoppers will purchase a GM ride are quaintly old-fashioned, and, because of the precariousness of the situation, potentially life threatening. I have a job that depends, in part, upon GM's product. They've let me down, they've let my employees down and, for those that are blinded in their passion, they've let you down too! I'm not asking you to agree with me, just see that my points have merit and thought behind them and, best intentions so that GM can right the ship. You wanna rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic?- please, go ahead---I'd rather be down below trying to fix the problem and participating in my own fate. I'm not confident the current captain fully understands the situation and it seems some of you don't either. If what I'm saying bothers you, fine, but it comes from the same passion that you have...I'm sure Turbo and evok and others feel the same way.

The problem with that 'hope' is that most car buyers want an appliance. Us enthusiasts exist on the fringe of the car buying public. Yes, we influence a few friends, some family purchases and, perhaps, set a few trends...the big problem for the big 2.5 is that the default choice isn't a US brand anymore. Ex. Don't know what to buy? March on down to your Nissan/Toyota/Honda place, they've got an SUV/Sedan/minivan you'll be satisfied with...just like their microwave or dishwasher- it'll run as intended. Why take a chance?To say that demographics have played a role in the US co.'s situation is fine...but it's only a partial component, rather than full explanation. Part of the issue is that certain age groups (45-65) were car buyers when the Big 3 were really putting out their worst POS's...Unfortunately, that means that there is a big hurdle to overcome to get them to consider a US product. This is only a component of the issue, however,... Here's the big one, IMO...what compelling USP drives consumers into a GM midsizer/compact/SUV/minivan?--there is none--and that's your biggest problem, because that cuts across all demographics and creates a situation where GM's best selling mid-size car (Impala) is a rental queen, rather than an aspirational product. Create great product and it resolves all of the above (see DCX LX). Create average and bland facsimilies of Japanese product, see them at Hertz. Case closed. (Here's a surprise---young & old people like cool cars ---can't name one GM volume product that qualifies for that adjective---that's sad.)

Perhaps I'm missing something, but the thought that Scion is a failure is laughable...the only 'dissapointment' is that the targeted demographic isn't as large a part of the group that actually buys 'em. I'm not sure that young people buy new cars at all, nevermind Scions or Elements or whatever other 'youth' oriented products are developed. I think that 'hip' youth know they can get a 3 year old 3-series for the price of an Accord...and I know what I'd rather drive. The bottom line is that, whether old farts or infants, Scion has been a resounding success sales-wise (without an SUV or crossover in the lineup)...who cares who buys them? Most manufacturers would kill for that kind of failure. We should worry more that the Kappas are going to be restricted by production volume....or that the HHR was 4 years late, or the fact that a rebadged Cobalt was the best GM could do for an entry level Pontiac (after stating they wouldn't do a rebadge - see Torrent for further offense.) The average age of buyers is a misleading statistic, as the population in general is getting older, on average...as is the age of active drivers and the lions share of wealth is concentrated in the older gens as well...

You're not accounting for the Dephi situation and a looming strike...the reason its this low is because of risk, not value of its current assets...If delphi strikes and production is severely interupted (think months), GM will burn through its liquid assets in a matter of months.... The market has done the same to Ford, as I believe they are sitting on more cash alone than the stock market valuation.

Most significant is the increased income (and transactional prices) for what was sold....they need revenue to dig out of the hole they're in, and this performance bodes well for the '06 year, however, the Delphi matter could throw a monkey wrench into all of this... It's definitely quarter to quarter right now...let's hope that gas prices (over $3/gallon in the Northeast and Cali) don't become an issue....

As someone who's interest's lie with Nissan rather than Infiniti (we have an interest in 3 Nissan stores), I personally like the decision....but, as the pricing is 20K over the next most expensive showroom product and 1500 cars means 1 per dealer, I don't see the logic in the decision, if only from a sales/service perspective...between training, tools and parts, some Nissan stores may even pass, since it may be difficult to 'qualify' (i.e. Nissan NA insists you buy x,y & z to get an alotment)

Absolutely. But who would have guessed that the LX's would be on the cover of DUB magazine and C&D, etc...It can happen. The coasts are clearly buying those cars, why not GM's?If Hyundai can break free of its associations, shouldn't GM be able to do so....perhaps even more easily?

Dead on, although I honestly have never seen the appeal of owning a car that everyone has.... GM's challenge is to create product in this segment that knocks people's socks off...think DCX 300, but one class smaller...if DCX can do it (how many people would have believed that the LX's would be as successful as they have been?), so can the General. If the rumors regarding the new 'bu are accurate, they may be on to something...but that passion needs to be in place across the board. The new Aura, which I saw up close for the first time, looks like a G6 crossed with a Stratus...and that's not good. They need to excite (and perhaps offend) their target audience to get that audience from choosing a default choice like the Altima, Camry or Accord. The competition in this segment is just too strong to do otherwise. I was under the impression Maximum Bob knew this---I'm thinking something got lost in translation between his desk and the production Aura...it can't happen again.

You claim that you drive hundreds of cars every year. Where do you valet? And why do you steal the spare change out of the cupholders? Honored by your almighty response. Just to clarify...I mean absolutely no harm...if my opinion offends, it's completely unintentional, so if you can save the personal attacks. FWIW-I'm not here to belittle, I'm here to inform and have an honest exchange of ideas...Oh, and if you wanna keep your change, don't leave it for me to find : )

Please restrict your replies to germane info. I speak facts, truth and, quite frankly, I have much more riding on GM than you. I'll continue to speak my mind, feel free to speak yours....and, while your at it, prove me wrong. I wish I was wrong.

With all due respect, anectodal reports is not evidence...I haven't heard of any tranny problems on the first 50 out the door...

Thanks. At least now I know. Should've guessed based on the lack of response to my flagging the post. Unbelievable.

Henry Ford was NOT a Nazi... Simple history can teach you that. He had involvement with Hitler BECAUSE of the manufacturing advancements Hitler fostered (And yes, HITLER WAS GOOD AT WHAT HE DID---yet that doesn't make him ethical or right) On a related note: The arrogance of the 'insiders' on this site is getting very tiring. You come here and condescend to enthusiasts, much like the media does to domestic companies (GEEE, a coincidence?) and then blatantly insult us when we DON'T BEND TO THE 'TOYOTA NOW RULES THE WORLD' status quo after being LIFETIME GM/domestic fans. You see, we're no so quick to SELL OUT like your organizations. So you're an insider/analyst/dealer/media/whatever.... Big F-in' deal!!!!! Your opinions SUCK just as bad as mine and everyone elses here; the only difference being that people actually pay you for them. I was going to put away the personal stuff (and BTW, my tirade you quote was mostly directed at an individual who attacked me - unprovoked, I might add), but since you've decided to, in essence, defend Henry Ford as not being a Nazi sympathizer---well, suffice it to say you need to read up on your history...He has been quoted as an anti-semite repeatedly- & financed/published pro-Nazi newspapers in this country until we declared war on Germany. And, to add insult to injury, you qualify your ignorant statements by stating that Hitler was good at what he did...what exactly was that??? Putting innocent people to death, ravaging the entire European continent with a horrific war? Oh, right, the Germans were good at manufacturing...that's what Ford was interested in---the anti-semetism was just a natural offshoot of his love for Hitler? I have a question...where are the admins when this guy spouts this drivel....you want to be mad at me cause of my opinions FOG, at least let me give you a reason...you're a moron, plain and simple....when you make these idiotic statements, you completely diminish all credibility you might have and make yourself and those that agree with you look like fools.... For the last time, since apparently only you haven't gotten the message: I'm NOT an insider and I have NO joy stating my opinions, just alot more basis in reality when I state them. If you don't like my attitude, go elsewhere or ignore my posts....you know what Hitler did to people when he didn't like their opinions (well, based on your rant, you probably don't.) You wanna debate like a man, go ahead, otherwise, ignore my posts and move on with your life. I not only know more about the industry than you, it also appears I know a little more about life as well. Grow up.

First, I never proclaimed myself a 'net expert...I'm a car expert compared to the majority of the people who troll this site- obviously, yourself included. I wasn't trying to call attention to my knowledge, but rather that I have an enormous opportunity to experience all kinds of products...but lets get to your ill-advised attempt to 'knock off my crown':As far as Toyota effectively managing their press and pressuring websites and print press, I never stated they didn't, so before you attack me, keep in mind you should at least know what point I'm trying to make...you obviously don't...how about rereading some of my posts? Even if you were 100% right, that doesn't mean that GM, Ford or any other manufacturer hasn't done the same thing...the difference is, they were much more ham-Handed about it (the LA Times/Neil G6/GM debacle comes immediately to mind). Furthermore, if you know anything about history and the press, you should note that big, powerful interests have always had a strong influence in the publication of all types of issues - the government & vietnam, GM & Ralph Nader (hear about GM trying to smear Ralphie by sending hookers and photogs to his hotel rooms after the Corvair fiasco??? They got busted too, just like Toyota and engine sludging....history didn't start when the internet began, you nimrod!) Despite the occassional lapse (and I have never stated Toyota built a perfect product), Toyota consistently puts out good stuff...not great, not world class in every respect, but well built, solid, reliable transport...exactly what the general public wants...and even if you don't believe me, or the internet sites or magazines or research companies - ask someone who got burned by GM or DCX or Ford or VW, et al...they'll tell you. I guess I didn't realize the whole world revolved around the internet and the bleatings of lemmings like yourself....I got news for you buddy, lots of people don't use the 'net at all, and those that do aren't worried about engine sludging on a few models from a few years ago. (If you were so smart, you'd know that Toyota quietly redesigned the oil circulation on it's 6's to eliminate the probelm, but that's another story. How about crawling back under the rock you came from...you want to argue that GM is a more ethical corporation than Toyota? Please. GM, from the lead in gasoline (they fought removing lead from gas for 50 years...ever see a child with an excess of lead in their system...well, actually, you may be a victim yourself, given the brain development problems it causes), GM fought seatbelts, GM killed Tucker, GM owns multiple superfund cleanup sites...so when you attack Toyota for hiding its sludging problems, keep in mind that its contemporary competition have their own skeletons (Henry Ford was a rabid Nazi, Benz used slave labor, and the list goes on....) Perhaps if you got off your computer and out in the real world, you'd realize that PEOPLE are full of information and the 'net is NOT the only reality. Glad you called my bluff...good luck disconnecting from the Matrix, Neo.