enzl

I have recently been driving a pristine, '01 Saab 9-3 5door, which was recently acquired by my company. Fun, roomy and very practical (my 70lb. dog can fit in the rear hatch area)...I really like the car...everything works, except a burnt out headlamp. Not a big deal, right? Here's the issue: EVERY time you turn on the car, it's messanging center describes ALL of the car's current problems (low washer fuid, headlamp out)...in big, bold letters that sit there if you don't use the radio or manually clear them... So, as a consumer, you are reminded of flaws each time you sit in the car. Could this influence people filling out surveys? I think it could. My wife notices it each time we use the car....It can't help...at least if it comes up as a reminder, let it shut off after some period of time... Thoughts?

Gotta do this one right, the first time...It's an overall execution thing in my opinion...I think the entry level V6 could be pushrod without too much crying... If the Camaro comes in under 3500lbs...(which it should in base form), then a 220-250 hp base motor is fine. The key Camaros will be the variety of v8...the sixes in either Mustangs or Camaros were always sold as 'secretaries specials' on some level... It's gotta handle, look right and have a decent quality story...hopefully, Lutz can keep this one on the straight & narrow.

Mmm...yes. Someone finally correctly guessed my true occupation I'm a little biased for Subies, as they have served me ('84 Wagon, 135K) and family (a '04 Legacy GT Wagon (45K)...well. That being said, I think the industry in general would benefit from more Subaru's and less badge-engineering...

I think you might be confusing the use of 'bad' which I think really means 'not as good', which, is I think, what's intended. When you have a brand that's on the 'outs' for whatever reason, you need to exceed the class expectations, and give the doubters ammunition to jump...yes, you're fighting a herd mentality, but, it has to be dealt with. Style turns quickly and brands can recover... IMO, the only way is to be demonstrably better in ONE facet that matters across the spectrum. 300C did that for Chrysler's brand, and the CTS did that for Caddy. People love or hate 'em, but you always notice a CTS or a 300...GM needs to absorb the lessons learned and leapfrog the competition...the 3.6 w/DI and 325+ hp must appear at launch, if possible. More importantly, killer execution at all levels is needed. The CTS will definitively prove if Lutz can change GM. Solstice tells me he has a chance. We'll see.

I'll weigh in..carefully...and I'll try to bridge some of the gaps in this thread... Everyone, to a certain degree, is right, because I believe that Cadillac, along with everyone else, has been caught somewhat by surprise by a number of A&S developments-- 1. Escalade-its beyond successful and a cash cow. If the sales of the ESV/EXT are proportionately as good as the reg. 'slade, Cadillac will sell more $50K lux trucks than anyone in the states...that's unbelieveable, and quite frankly, just what Caddy used to stand for...big, brash, heavy, cromed V8 beheamoths...so, in a way, their cars have gone more modern, and trucks reflect their past fairly clearly...which leads me to... 2. CTS staying power....fooling $35k luxo buyers might work once, but the media, fans and new blood showed up in GM showrooms, in many cases, for the first time. Love or hate the styling, you know exactly what it is rolling down the street. 3. Quasi-failure of STS/SRX-Thinner air up in this price range....TBC....dinner's ready!

I'd love to see the CTS lineup expand to a coupe and convertible before they even think about moving upmarket... ...additionally, the time and effort would be better served to refine what they have and give all more competitive interiors...

Their new design direction with the edsel grill is nasty....I'm thinking they need to vacate that style yesterday.

I would disagree that they're 'always in the shop' based on an owner you know......I know many owners, but I wouldn't use their experience as evidence of a general statement or fact about any product. I stand my above statement that they're good cars and highly regarded....people buy Saabs or Audis to be different too, and, unfortunately, they like to complain about them, apparently....see any independent study, owner surveys or industry sources. I noticed a more positive attitude towards Subaru here when they were in GM's orbit...find it interesting that they basically reject GM and, suddenly, they can't build decent cars anymore, according to some....

Sorry...I haven't had a chance to really research this, I just flipped to a bookmarked site...it happened to be CR (which I personally don't like), but if you look at almost any media source, you'll find almost unanimously positive ratings....

CR Good BetsThe best of both worlds These are models that have performed well in Consumer Reports road tests over the years and have proved to have several or more years of better-than-average Used Car Verdict. They are listed alphabetically. .... Subaru Forester Subaru Impreza Subaru Impreza WRX, STi Subaru Legacy Subaru Outback Additionally, other than JD Power, these cars are all 'best bets' and highly regarded... ...no matter....I'd still put them up against any competitor, as they are what Saab should be and isn't.

http://thetruthaboutcars.com/content/11477...06557/index.php Mmm...I guess the Japanese automakers aren't getting a free pass from Mr. Farago's site after all....

Subies are reliable...have been at the top of the list for years... As for their upscale aspirations, they've been slowly heading upmarket for years and, to my eyes, are the least 'Japanese' looking of all the Asian makes (which is a good thing). I'd put them on equal footing with Honda or Toyota, with a dash of style and uniqueness, since they sell about 10-15% of what those two makes peddle.

What would qualify as 'sufficiently differentiated' to have worked?I've always thought the Concept One (5 door version of Phaeton?) would have worked at $45 K, decontented instead of equally luxurious....think last gen A6 interior spec.... That was what I thought might have worked as a step above the Passat W8......

No argument. Press has been decidedly mixed on this car, but a 15k Toyota will sell if reasonably designed---the Scions are a huge success for this reason as well...although I can't see why someone would buy this car when a loaded, more practical xA is right across the showroom floor.

Not to mention it cannot pass EPA standards for 07 and will likely not be updated to do so before the next gen Astra...Diesels sell--VW sells everyone they import in the 45 states they can...IIRC, Fiat was GM's small diesel partner, so no provision has been made to adapt them to 50 state standards--More evidence of GM's myopia...

I'd get a used car, if these were all I could afford. I just can't wrap my mind around a car that small as a daily driver.

Only the 4 dr. is being upgraded...It's still an accomplishment to outsell the best-seller 2nd month out...neither vehicle is anything to write home about...

Remember, Compass & Patriot are coming off the same line...3 shifts until at least next year...the 3rd shift was planned to coincide with Cmpass/Patriot intros, IIRC.

BTW- This 'POS' just outsold the Aveo in its first full month on the market...

No fleet, other than a few for QC, to my understanding....I can only speak for our Dodge store when I say none are in inventory and the 6 coming in have deposits on each...its considered a 'small SUV' by the masses, at a price thousands cheaper than other co.'s "SUV's"

This scenario would work in the real world, except that GM, in an effort to develop 'all things to all people', ironically, they've devolved into producing 'some things that nobody wants'...that's what happens when the budget for a 'Camry fighter' gets split amongst Chevy, Pontiac, Opel, Saab, etc...the result is a group of poorly differentiated, somewhat mediocre product, rather than true weapons to fight Toyota.None of the cars mentioned above in your post have a USP (unique selling point) rather, they are different strains of Vanilla...one has vanilla beans, one's soft serve, but none really are either a killer appliance or a unique, interesting choice, thus leaving GM stranded in no man's land when it comes to mid-market sedans...So, now they're stuck selling the latest 'deal', resulting in even less desireability...it's a vicious circle...One I'm sure Lutz is trying to break with supposed 'breakthrough' redesigns for the 'bu and Impala...I guess we'll have to wait and see (a familiar refrain, unfortunately)

Just to clarify..and I think you made my point for me...no mainstream GM product, and very few other domestics, are really 'characters'---sporty, fun to drive and containing that certain something that brings them out of the ordinary....FWIW, the Corvette is a limited production and far outside 'mainstream', as I was defining it...also, at the $35k + level, Caddy's should be full of character and, IMO, are not mainstream products, nor would GM want us to regard them as such... That leaves 0 GM'ers....when a Malibu, Impala or normal Cobalt are characters, GM will be heading in the right direction....until then, they are trying to out-Japanese the Asian makers, which is not their strong suit...

While it is absolutely true that Toyota makes appliances (soulless, but reliable, well built, highly functional and targeted accurately), I don't see how THEY are responsible for sucking the soul out of car building...Ex. What mainstream product truly possesses soul? BMW? Alfa? Mazda? Nissan? I'm not sure what the criticism is here, as Toyota's direct competitors, import or domestic, build a ton of really vanilla product. Is the Malibu or Impala inherently more soulful than a Camry? If so, what is the critierion used to measure that? I might see an argument that certain Altimas are very sporty, in a way that a Camry isn't....or that the Civic Si, with its screamer engine, is a more involving product than a Corolla.....but are these really products with soul? Perhaps its semantics, but I don't find any mainstream GM products soulful....Ford might have argument with the Mustang (or Fusion) and the DCX LX's might be arguable... I'm trying to establish what we are benchmarking, because I can't honestly say that Toyota, GM or any other mass manufacturer really puts out mainstream product that has a 'soul'. Can anyone shed some light on this one?

All have been promised after the rollout of their platform mates...it's my understanding that this platform may also be able to support a V6 down the road, which, at 3000lbs+, it probably needs on some level.

Cadillac's newfound life has been, iMO, GM's greatest success of recent memory. I agree with Mr. K (who woulda thunk it?), as the small gaffes of product (SRX was wrong development of Sigma, should've gone 5 passenger, at same price point as CTS--see RX as partial guide) and interior quality (which really hasn't hurt the CTS, but clearly needs improvement) haven't prevented Caddy from getting their footing in a highly competitive market.As I stated above, the key is the next gen of vehicles...you've gotten alot of people to pony up and buy, now you've got to convince a tougher crowd of converts that the product you build is Demonstrably Better than the competition...I hear a 300 HP 3.6 and a 400hp n* are on the dynos as we speak....No Caddy should leave a factory without one of those two motors....18" wheels and available AWD at every trim level should also be on board...just a few thoughts before my coffee...