enzl

They'll only sell a little less than 200K Tundras this year, however, a current 18K/mo. sell rate means that their 'target' of 200k annually is being met at this point in time. Check Automotive News, they usually have latest figures available.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news/gm/gm...v8official.html Kudos where its due...that's what you do with failed product--Improve it!

Toyota forget their monthly stipend? Another nail in the coffin of the media bias boogeyman? (a guy could hope)

Your anecdotes about 1 region in Canada mean zip.You haven't answered as to why a stated policy (US fleeting) was discouraged, but is now OK (& unmentioned in monthly PR on sales #'s)? You don't find that odd? I know nothingabout Canada or Ontario. I DO know that GM in my region will lose another 3 dealers by next spring and Regional sales are at 70% of targets..that's my anecdote for the day. You are absolutely wrong when you neither explain or acknowlege the change in policy...and you speak like a salesman when you concern yourself with auction availability, monthly payments on the cheap and ignore resale as a valid concern of real customers... Fleeting means discounted profits and, maybe, an upfit or two to make a buck here in the states...my fleet guy has to sell 100's of cars to match a salesman making 15 sales a month, and that's a problem!

Where's GM's modern minivan? Oh, yes, they don't have one.As far as the minivan market, if they've been selling 400k+ of the previous gen, I suspect interior quality isn't #1 on a buyers' checklist. The truck's aren't triples, maybe a ground rule double...like I said, numbers will tell the story.

Don't bother. There's an element here that can never let facts get in the way of their opinion.great example of another (forgotten) promise.

Insert Sarcasm:GM's products are perfect! Check out the golden standard opinion of guys like CarBiz, that want to bring back the drum brake! Be careful, printing bad things about GM means a mod warning from Ven...now, racial slurs are OK, as long as they're ignorant and anti-Asian, but that's another story for another day. Back to topic: Accord V6 Automatics have been a disaster for Honda, especially on the higher pwered Acuras and AWD applications. I do recommend obsessive maintenence for these units for anyone who has one. Otherwise, the Accord review seems fair and proves that Honda is human...although it doesn't change the fact that the Accord blows pretty much any GM competitor out of the water during the same time period, so most people with a shred of common sense went Honda (or Toyota or Nissan) regardless.

Oh Boy.10% fleeted vs. 50% fleet..which owner group is affected more? You're just being difficult, not applying logic, as the 'bu has 25% of the retail sales of a Camry...the GP is at 10-15% of Camry sales @ retail. You conveniently forget that GM has indicated fleeting is bad. They've strained to say so each month BUT August for the last year in their monthly sales explanation.GM said it. Ford has said it. Chrysler has said it. I'm not making it up---why does everything you do at your showroom in Canada somehow apply to prove GM's overall success, yet when I restate a FACT, it calls for a Congressional investigation before you 'believe it'? No agendas, only truth---which is that (again) GM has shown neither the intestinal fortitude or backbone to stick with a good plan.

1. My point, obviously missed, is that GM has made a point of stating that they are weaning themselves OFF said fleet sales.2. 50k/500k Camrys is vastly different than 50k/100k GP's...simple math, man. 3. GM has again revealed its corporate ADD with the resumption of unhealthy fleeting....indicating a short-sightedness that extends, unfortunately, far beyond this one issue. If they can't keep their word on this, what else are they back-pedaling on? Zeta? Badge engineering? You mistake truth for bashing..I grew up knowing that a man keeps his word. They haven't. Not on fleets. Not on badge engineering. And, mark my words, the latest Union contract will jettison more American jobs, to be replaced by Chinese/Korean and other 3rd world suppliers, engineers, et al...So, for all of you concerned by sending your $ overseas, GM will only accelerate that trend in the near term. Harsh but true. (BTW- Reg, if you dropped the idiotic asian-accented BS, you might sound like more than a 4th grade dropout. It's offensive---I've said it before, but VEN is too busy trying to warn me about bashing mods to notice!)

we have some mid-level modestly equipped units in stock. They aren't fantastic---but I'm not sure the avergae minivan buyer will care. I guess time (and sales numbers) will tell.

If they were a great idea, why would Ford & GM crow about reducing said sales, every month that their #'s dropped?Hyundai is tripping, clearly, but Toyota is still below 10%fleet mix of total sales...when GM gets to 10%, pigs will fly, my friend!

US Fleet = Low or nonexistent profit and quick return to market as used... If cutting these type of 'fleet' sales wasn't important, how come GM has crowed about reducing fleeting in EVERY press release regarding (lower) sales numbers...except, coincidentally, August 2007? I have no ulterior motives, only the truth, which is, BTW, that GM has again abandoned a decent idea before it could see true results. It's BS, and even if you don't like the messenger, what I'm saying is 100% accurate. Giving fans the false impression you've turned the corner helps no one. If Detroit drops dead, its because of management negligence, as exemplified by this latest short sighted, hypocritical & misleading move to puff Aug #'s that they knew would be bad.

Which is the exact problem for GM....lots of competition for their NEW product come return time.I can't believe you guys are giving GM a free pass on this one. They've completely done exactly what they said they would no longer do! AS usual, the corporate ADD ruins a sound plan on their behalf, just like the side-by-side-by-side campaign for Aura... Better product + Same old management CYA = Failure. (Most GM dealers in my region are running at 75% of target sales--that ain't good enough)

Oy.Either its: A. a vast conspiracy, aligned against GM for no real apparent reason, nor anything to gain OR B. GM had about 20 yrs. of mediocrity punctuated by moments of outright corporate dementia, but have recently been awoken--and no they have little credibility with their critics... Saturn is moving in the right direction, as a passenger car division of GM. Saturn as an idea, however, has been put out to pasture, which I believe is the article's point. (Or, everyone's just against us...)

Miles Automotive is currently selling street legal, low speed all-electric cars, built in China. I've driven one. They supposedly have a 'real car' (Li batteries, 120 mi range and 80MPH) planned for an 08 rollout! (No really www.milesautomotive.com)

Nah...they'd rather push GM's sales-figure Kool-aid. (Besides, it would indicate begrudging respect for the Toyota juggernaut..NGH here.)This is like LaDanian Tomlinson being signed as a free agent to your football team. Huge, aggressive and smart rebound move after parting ways with Wolfgang. Puts Chrysler back in the game, almost instantly, in some respects.

Anything in the press releases about fleet sales?..they've generally crowed about reductions in down months... I smell fleet sales being tweaked...anyone?

Toyota is just doing what they've always done, only in a new segment... It's an avg-above average product with the likelihood being it won't break soon. And they're willing to sell it at cost to carve out a solid piece of the market. Everything else is just detail....

Mag/Issue avail.?Haven't seen...

Is there a direct link to ad itself? Wouldn't the $5k on the hood and invoice pricing get you about there on the highline product?

Why is everything a conspiracy theory?Effective PR is a manistay of life at the top of the Fortune 500. Blaming Toyota for hiring better flacks is absurd. Of course all items made by humans are imperfect. The only difference between Toyota's handling of issues and GM's is that they've been much more effective, from a communication and marketing viewpoint, of staying on message. This FJ thingn sounds bad, no doubt...its how its handled that matters.

I would guess a combination---the truth is that a DSG-type set-up is probably the best auto/manual comprimise, which none of Enclave's competition has. I'd assume we're a generation out from seeing such tech in these types of vehicles.

Can't argue that Toyota has been slow in the past, but this seems like such as extreme issue that goes far beyond the plausible deniability of previous issues and into a whole new level of negligence if it is true...

First, read what ANY owners manual says about off-road use and warranties....including Hummer, Jeep, et al...because many people are complete dolts when it comes to knowlegeable, safe and responsible off-roading.Off-road = Voided warranty, generally Second, I commented on the posters, not the survey. Third, it's not a reliable source, at all.** (and bear in mind how upset people get here when similar sources are used to bash GM products) Like I said above, I'll believe it when the car is recalled or otherwise has this flaw 'outed'. Never heard of this one at our Toyota service dept...and its likely a result of extreme abuse or misuse--although I will readily admit, if true it is another stain on Toyota's (deteriorating) stellar rep.

It's a bunch of postings on a board from guys who have modded and off-roaded their vehicles...lets hold off on the hossannahs as we again show our true colors by reveling in the 'failure' of Toyota. When the NHTSA get involved, gimme a call. For now you are basing your info on the anonymous rumblings of a fan board. Should we go thru every GM fan-board to trumpet the issues some car may/may not have? C&G'er love to scream media bias when GM gets dinged, but its somehow OK to grasp at straws to create a controversy...hypocrites, all of you.