enzl

E85 seems like a boondoggle. Anything the Senate is hot for can't be good. Diesel will always be sailing against a headwind here in the states. I'd sooner see the Feds push stations into Diesel than E85. Most Diesel emporiums are kinda nasty. A little too 'truckstop' for Mom in her CUV (which ironically would be the best destination for clean diesels.) I think we're going to see more hybrids than diesels for a while.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/review...rn-vue-xr_N.htm Another decent review. More importantly, how's it drive?

I debated with even acknowledging you, but I can't resist.... Your repeated attempted to goad me into a flame war has now reached its limit. You're right, in one regard: You can (& obviously will) post whatever you'd like to. My issue is not with your 'right' to do anything, merely your wisdom in doing so. My opinion is irrelevant to this argument we're engaging in rather, it's your callous disregard for what your actions actually say about you. For someone who is so concerned about the American Auto industry, its people and the jobs they go to everyday, it seems somewhat disingenuous to selfishly cling to a symbol that casts many fans and similar minded people in a negative light. I fully understand that you neither understand nor accept that point of view--but many casual onlookers, new posters or even GM's 'enemies' peruse this board just to see what's up with the world of GM. To risk taking all of the positives on this site and flushing them because YOU feel that you are right is not the situation you'd want to create. As I stated above, this is my last scree on this issue. My position has more to do with liking this site than hating what you stand for...I suspect you're incapable of taking the same mature outlook, but I offer the opportunity to consider the quiet majority here who might benefilt from a more considerate position on your part.

I guess reading comprehension is beyond you. I didn't bring it up on this thread. (I believe Moltar did...) Congrats on 'winning' here. I'm fairly certain I've got you covered everywhere else.

....and the peanut gallery weighs in..... The beauty of our country is that even dumb*sses have the fullest protections of the law. You live your life anyway you see fit, my brother. You're setting out a real blueprint for success in life with your philosophy. Call me when you accomplish anything noteworthy beyond removing your knuckles from the pavement when you walk.

Thanks. Now I've actually got a legitimate excuse not to give them to my son!

Rumor has it that Apple is working with BMW on its next interface....they could use the help, IMO. It's nearly impossible to just hop into a new BM without a primer on iDrive and the new 08 auto-shift lever popping up in its newer models.

Are you a Civil War expert? Or an anthropologist? Then your opinion doesn't do anything here to move the needle. Also, this isn't a 'white European thing', this is a uniquely American issue---The US owes part of its unique power & wealth to its slave past--a trade that had been outlawed in a majority of the 1st World by the time the Civil War rolled around. The descendants of these slaves haven't exactly had the easiest time of it here either--or do you guys have textbooks that only reach the 50's?---it certainly sounds like it. I'm sick of people on this site making excuses for the abject ignorance of some posters... If a symbol, be it a Nazi swastika, a KKK white hood or a Confederate Flag offend some---why use it at all? If referring to Asians as 'Japs' is OK, why isn't it used in polite conversation with Japanese people? Because it's a slur. Would posters put up with gay epithets or AIDS jokes? No, they wouldn't. So when more than a few site users complain about the Confederate Flag--that opinion should be given a respectful hearing. It's clear that many of the mods don't get out of their Mom's basement too much...but that shouldn't mean that the site couldn't get somewhat better with a little outside advice, IMO.

An overwhelming majority of black americans? Descendants of civil rights workers maimed or killed by the anti-civil rights idiots? Most normal people in this country? Freedom of expression is one thing I can support---but the Confederate Flag is so loaded with negative history, I can't believe it's worth it to this site to support such an assinine position, but so be it. *I'll shut up when YOU walk down the street in any black neighborhood in this country with a Confederate Flag on your shirt. You're an ignorant coward if you won't. I'm sure that they'll welcome you with open arms. Perhaps you could handle the more 'confrontational' individuals by showing them surveys that indicate that millions aren't offended? (I'll be happy to follow you with an ambulance...just give me a time and date.)

Couple of bloggers called BS on this 2nd image. Seemed to claim it was the old show car drapped with a photochopped cover.

Flat out untrue. Many, many immigrants, from where-ever, often buy domestic products because they're proud to be here. Our Asian language staff sell 100's of new Chevy's to delightful Korean, Chinese & Japanese individuals. You accuse me of race-baiting & that's the best you can do?

I've been told to keep my 'politics' to myself....so although I agree with you, I've yet to win that 1st fight here. Apparently, 'jap' is OK and the confederate flag is a symbol which, despite offending millions by its mere display, is 'historical' or part of some 'heritage' that outweighs the offense... As far as the second point above, I don't believe that any right-minded individual, Republican or Democrat, really subscribes to such hateful views. The anonymity and 'power trip' factor of the internet emboldens the smallest of minds here.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4326-10895_7-6606699.html The CTS gets a nice compliment along the way....and the brief reviews reveal alot about their respective manufacturers.

It seems to me that there are alot of xenophobes on this board. The simple fact is that not only the Japanese have taken advantage of the US Gov't ignorance of international markets---we buy products here from all over the globe, perhaps without thought. Alot of you imply that there's some grand scheme to ruin the US or that ignorant consumers are 'punishing' US Corps---the fact is, as it applies to vehicles, an automotive purchase is the 2nd most expensive one will ever make. Why would someone 'take a chance' on companies that have disappointed in the past when there's so many 'good' choices (incl. US products) nowadays? You are asking people to ignore their own common sense--they're not out to 'punish' anyone. Most people bash foreign things/entities as a proxy for their deeper rooted anxieties, fears or outright dislike of non-white, non-christian peoples---our own beloved politicians prey on these fears and encourage this foolish ignorance. I hope I'm wrong about the posters here--but based on some other arguments I've had on this board, it's more likely than not that I'm right. Get things right here in our country, keep our image in the world as a leader, with respect of other cultures & elect some smart people, rather than fear mongers and panderers---all of the sudden the problems might get fixed, instead of patched and ignored.

Actually--while you have a great idea--I'd go one step further...make them maintain and bring them to dealers for repairs and service--so they can see first hand what overdealering and state franchise laws have created---there's nothing worse than the average service facility at 2nd tier imports and most domestic dealers. I'd rather have root canal.

you've hit on my big beef with the current administration: What does RW know about anything other than GM? Yes, the Lutz hire was a masterstroke--but it was also a necessity. The products just weren't good enough to retain or expand marketshare, so something needed to be done, ASAP. I have the good fortune of living with 20+ cars/year a few weeks at a time. Most are used inventory that we're waiting on titles for--but many are low mileage & representative of the average consumers use of said vehicles. The 'desireability' gap of imports & domestics is closing--but there's still plenty of examples of mediocrity out there... I just don't think RW knows enough...in fact, I'd say he doesn't know how much he doesn't know. The insular view of the rest of the industry from Detroit is patently obvious. I hope that GM hasn't waited too long to swallow its medicine---this year will be ough going for even the strongest industry players.

RW has been there his whole professional career. To say he doesn't share in some of the blame is absurd. He either sat by while bad decisions were made or assisted in making them. GM squandered its competitive position. They left an opening with their cavalier attitude towards their product and customer---just because other companies such as Toyota or Honda took advantage of GM's hubris (with assistance from an industry-friendly Japan gov't) doesn't make GM's slow descent into hell any less a problem of their own making. The last two posters act as if GM hasn't burned customers in the last 30 years. GM can be saved---I've seen little evidence that RW is the man to do it.

Gentle reminder: Those 'punks' are about to sell 3x what Caddy sells worldwide this year...the quality of their line-up isn't impressive, which makes the accomplishment even more amazing in my book. Perhaps it's a lesson in marketing that GM should take note of?

All 100% true. Why isn't someone looking for these people and recruiting them? Not just as CEO, but as management? You would think that this would be a priority--if the Union has stared into the abyss and determined there's no more time to screw around, wouldn't you think a couple of independent Board of Directors might suggest such an idea? Mind-boggling.

It's not about the past...there's alot of futures depending upon the decision-making that's being made right now at the Tubes. Ask yourself: Is Wagoner a 'guts & instinct' kind of guy? GM needs less lawyers, accountants & MBAs...but they could always use more car guys. If product is everything, shouldn't the top cat be product expert?

All the more reason those in charge need to look outside of Detroit for their inspiration. They should be getting into the 'why' their new product is routinely ignored, rather than screaming bias or complaining that the populace at large isn't giving them the time of day.

No. They can't because of residual hell. 10 pts. or more means $2000-3000 in equity that needs to be address over only 24-48 months..simple math sez $40-$125/month (+ interest) that GM needs to eat or charge the customer...and auctions generally net less than set residual values for GM as well. That's where the product quality can literally save a corporation. Unfortunately for GM, the overall perception lagging those quality gains have left them in a tough position.

In other words, you agree with me, but you're loyalty keeps you from bashing GM, which, honestly, is admirable. I don't view my company's position as anything but smart business and free enterprise at its best--but we didn't have a crystal ball--we just exercised common sense. That's the only standard I can hold GM to in this matter. While GM Europe's small vehicles may not be immediate help, it confuses me that you would go through the development effort for a Delta or Ep sized vehicle and NOT coordinate your resources. If VW or MB can sell similar models to all parts of the globe, it stands to reason that GM can too...maybe the Golf becomes a Jetta here or MB sells 5% diesel rather than 40-50%+ in Europe, but it can and should be done. The Corsa would a great Saturn--or Aveo for that matter---source the production from Mexico if it can't be made here. I'm a huge GM fan--but to stretch a sports analogy, I'm not a cheerleader with a goofy grin when the team's down by 50 points. Not in my nature. And I respect, even if I disagree, with your opinion and anyone else's here as well.

Wolfgang Bernhardt, Carlos Ghosn or maybe some of the guys that have rescued Fiat (which is nearly miraculous)...or, how about pulling a Mullaly out of another industry?...the guys running Catepillar have done a fairly good job in a funky economy... Or maybe there's a couple of guys in the executive offices at GM who aren't 'yes' men...guys who will never become CEO normally because GM is such a stilted, go along to get along type place. They know the current game plan well--maybe they know how to execute better--and you won't have the downtime of someone 'learning' the business. You've got to take a chance on somebody, regardless---I don't believe that RW is the man for the 21st century. Think about it for 1 sec...he's NEVER worked elsewhere--how can you absorb 'best practices' when you've never seen them work? He's a lifer, a former lackey and boot licker that got to his position by NOT 'messing up." Does that qualify one for the greatest job on the planet? I just don't think so.

First, my resume is immaterial to this conversation, other than the fact that I'm in the retail end of this industry--in a position where I oversee and review 16 different dealerships--Toyota, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ford Lincoln & Mercury---Some are well run, others not so much.... I'm very positive about My prospects--we're well positioned to weather whatever storm comes our way---we did that via expansion, acquisition of makes, improving real estate & extensive marketing. In other words, we're prepared--to say conditions are tough is to presume they weren't either anticipated or expected and I want to know why. MY point is simply that GM hasn'tanticipated anything in 30+ years--and everything being offered up in their defense is an excuse or creative twist on the facts on the ground. A simple understanding of economics and accounting would lead any sane person to come to the same conclusion. As for doom and gloom--if you were on a sinking ship, wouldn't you be better served by a crew that was moving quickly and efficiently to assist and warn? GM is listing, my brother, and quite frankly, they need more guys taking a critical eye to the situation at the Tubes... You are entitled to disagree--but proper planning, be it economic, product or resource allocation, would have made GM much stronger--instead, its the same tune, different lyrics--wait for the new product, new quarter we'll get them, we're predicting a gain in marketshare, the new X is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Explain to me how the formerly largest Auto Producer in the World hasn't been profitable during the largest US sales market-ever? How do you fumble that gift? More importantly, how do let the figures at the top get away with that? I don't want to hear that RW hasn't been responsible for all of the problems--of course he hasn't--but his fingerprints are on enough of them that it should be over for him--remember, he's a lifer--and was in the executive suites when alot of these horrible decisions went down---and he stood by, because it was probably more important to him to become CEO one day than rock the boat. That who you want as the leader? Please--I don't. I'm sick of the fear mongers that dread change at the top--that's BS---not one product decision in the short term will be changed by removing Rick--but perhaps some long-term ones will be better with him gone. He couldn't manage the flush economic times, so what gives anyone the faith that he can handle truly tough challenges? PS-The Traverse will mostly cannibalize t-blazer & tahoe sales, along with the other divisions Lambdas. And, I'm sorry, The Aveo is a joke--23 city MPG with an automatic tranny--especially with the superior Corsa and Meriva running around Europe for years. If the Aveo is your idea of good product, please don't bother coming to the planning meetings.