enzl

Dave, like others here, we'll have to agree to disagree. I hear what you're saying, but I just see the situation as dire---there's no 'rubbing it in'--I stand to lose alot more than most here, so perhaps it makes me angrier that the general poster. If that comes across as too harsh or aggressive, it isn't intended as a personal affront. For that, I apologize to anyone offended. It still doesn't change that facts, however. Things are really that bad, brother. That's simply not just my opinion, but most experts in many disciplines across the board. Any assertion to the contrary is wishful thinking, not grounded in any reality.

The Yaris is, IMO, surprisingly cheap. It and the Tundra aren't Toyota's best efforts. I think the problem is that the Aveo may become mid-pack, but the Kia Soul, Honda Fit & Ford Fiesta are probably the class acts, with the Nissan Cube also creating a new standard for the segment in the NA market. If the Corsa was GM's new B, I'd be thrilled. The Daewoo products aren't even close to GM's best effort in the class.

When you have each and every post dissected because of your POV, call me. Almost every post, I've got a shadow IF my POV doesn't tow the line here. Check out where most of the people who have been here and left stand on GM issues. It isn't a coincidence. You're made to be the enemy, rather than devil's advocate. Until then, consider my post a response to someone calling me out. It's not bragging when its merely defending where my knowledge comes from and how my opinion, however horrible to some, may have the weight of real experience. Real people. Real Lives. Real jobs. And, you've really misread O-boi's and others' posts if you believe they're advocating the degree of change that will save GM.

My suggestions would save $billions & all that is asked is an immediate reinvestment in product and flexibiity. Your concerns can all be addressed.

You're simply mistaken as to my position on a number of fronts...and it's so easy to check my postings--which are up for all to see and verify that you're just picking nits. I have an opinion that you disagree with, so I'm wrong. I get it. I'm contrary to those that are Kool-Aiding the topic--nothing more or less. Patriotism is sometimes confused with other things. I've frequently expressed hope for GM---but I won't lie to myself or you about the cold, hard facts.

Done.

Quite simply: 1. Fire all the Yes men. The white collar workforce should be pared down, immediately. If you're not an engineer or designer, your job is in immediate peril. We must show that the corporation is willing to cut deep from the top down, not just shove VEBAs and 30% paycuts at the Union guys. 1a. RW, Fritz and co. are goners. Keep Lutz for the product development and muzzle his ass--no more public speaking for Maximum Bob. 2. Flex manufacturing must be instituted in all GM plants, regardless of current product. If plant can't be retrofitted, it's toast. 3. Supplier relationships must be mended. Partner with them to share costs of new tech--give them a stake in every success--and an ability to sell that tech to others, so long as GM gets a cut. 4. Sell off anything not core to Automaking (if there's anything left). 5. Investigate the interest in the sale of any of the brands--Saturn, Hummer and Saab come immediately to mind----it's simply cheaper than closing them 6. Volt/e-Flex has to be produced, on time, regardless of cost. If it's as good as advertised, multiple products (especially upscale ones) should be readied along side it so that the costs can be recouped as quickly as possible--roll those out in '12 & beyond. 7. PR must be revamped or gutted and redone. GM hasn't done a good job with marketing or PR for 20 years. Time to find industry peole who know what they're doing. 8. No bonuses, Golden Parachutes, raises or paydays for upper management until GM is profitable. While sh!t rolls downhill, it's up to leadership to exemplify the sacrifice and concentration needed to correct the course. That'll be how I start--assuming I can't get into a time machine and roll back some of the bone-head moves of current mgmt.

The powers-that-be here have managed to chase away anyone with a divergent opinion---as well as their own mod (without a peep) because the site has become a dumping ground for the Lowest Common Denominator. Add in the racist displays masquerading as 'free speech' and its no wonder all of the intelligence has been drained from the place. It's really sad, as there was a time in the recent past where multiple sources of interesting info would congregate and discuss--and even disagree--without the empty rhetoric. Now its a pissing match of one-liners... I'm hoping for better in the future. Maybe Flybrian will return and rescue the place from itself.

Flint is right--but what's done is done. We all know what the cost of a shut-down would be...and my guess is that Saturn can be revived because it doesn't have the baggage of some of the other divisions. Additionally, revenue has been enhanced by the price points of the new product--most of the product starts at a price significantly higher than the Saturns of 4 years ago. I would have done the revivial differently, but there's no unringing that bell at this point. Perhaps they could sell Saturn to somebody someday?

Hey, brother...You got ideas? I do...I've been giving a prescription (sic) to this company for years....the last 2+ on this board. I've been quoted in a very noted business journal saying the exact same things 3+ years ago. Is that the kind of proof you need to show I'm for real and you're just a fanboy with an internet connection? You can hate on me, but please don't try and play it like I'm on the bandwagon now. You're just trying to be cute in order to score some points with similarly minded posters--how about an original idea or two, genius? Or sipping on a can of STFU? They are doing it wrong, they've been doing it wrong for years and I'm going to yell it 'til I'm blue in the face---they are so wrong that I can't believe even someone like you can't see it....but, hey, it's easier to be a snarky anonymous a** who sucks up to the lowest common denominator here. I get it. You're an apologist.

GM simply can't afford to have any of their divisions 'independent'...the product cadence is a mess without fiefdoms to battle. I think Flint is seeing the cup as 1/2 empty. Transaction prices are higher and, while slow, the transition to a better image will take time.

Check last month's sales figures. This is how wrong you are: Toyota (the brand) has outsold Chevy or Ford nameplates in the US for 2008. Period. GM needs great product, immediately. They're still at 20%+ Fleet sales---and dropping marketshare. Here's the difference in POV: I'm in the ambulance with a heart-attack victim, you're advising him about diet. If the alarms haven't sounded by now, well.... I guess we'll just call it a difference of opinion.

The man is right. The Impala is fine...but imagine how good it could be with a more modern powertrain, better proportions and enhanced fuel efficiency. What confuses me with the W-body defenders is that although sales are good, does GM really need to wait until it isn't selling to make changes for the better? Isn't that what's gotten them to their current predicament? Why not take current Impala attributes and enhance them? There's so many GM products suffering NOW from the 'let's hold off on updates' or 'let's make due with compromised product'. Wouldn't it be great to have GREAT product---without apologies or excuses? The knee-jerk reaction of Impala + Volume = Success is not logically consistent to those that crush Camry buyers as sheeple---it just exhibits the frustrating lack of intellectual honesty that drives me crazy. GM needs more G8's, vettes & CTS's...less rehashes, me-too's & aging platforms. It's actually that simple. When I see GM throwing $1 billion at American Axle ($800 million in lost profit, $218 million in payoffs to Union cast-offs), I see the financing for an entire platform being thrown out the window---and that's why I can't stand the current management---there are literally dozens of New Products that have been squandered by these morons---and more yet to (not) come as Delphi is about to hit GM up for a multi-billion $ payoff in the next year or so. When I see a W-bodied Impy in my 2012 showroom, it'll make me ill. I just know it.

TB is a regional issue. We steadily sell double figures a month simply because it's a 'real' SUV. Explains why other dealers beg us to take them.

I'm not too sure about that....but it makes life here interesting.

Sorry, but these guys kept up the link.... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/saturn-di...american-image/

IIRC, the 1.8T is an older design unrelated to the 2.0T. I believe there are issues with emissions that would make fitting it into US product a problem. Why not just a 2.0 4cyl., without the T?

We've had 3 in inventory for about 2 months...I think we've fielded 3 total inquiries about them in that time. Great product, horrible timing. I'm afraid that the minimal expectations may be difficult to meet.

It's no wonder so many posters are completely out of touch with the realities GM is facing. You can't even let your prejudices get past your neighbor's driveway. I have to laugh when you try and site numbers like there are existing statistics on bad drivers and what they drive. You wanna say that people on cell phones are distracted, and thus dangerous--fine. But as soon as I hear about Camry this or Prius that, it simply loses all credibility. Suffice it to say that there are tons of terrible drivers out there, whether driving a new Lexus or a rusted out pick-up, they're certainly evident everywhere. I just find this thread high comedy. It's no wonder a bunch of you read the biz pages (or god forbid, GM's own SEC filings and PR) and can't understand the depth of GM's issues. Thanks for the unintentional humor provided. Really. I genuinely pray that GM isn't listening to a bunch of you, for their own sake.

What bothers me about the Cobalt is that it wouldn't take $1,000. And while you're spot on with the Yaris, I still believe the Fit wastes the Aveo...and the buzz is pretty good for the Kia Soul of all things, believe it or not.... I think you've hit on GM's central issue: an apparent case of ADD. It seems to strike fewer products nowadays, but it's still there.

The problem with the Volt=Greenwash approach is the inevitable sour press if you don't meet the timeline, mileage claims, et al... I could see your point, but as the line-up of Hybrids is fleshed out, GM should be able to make a compelling case for themselves without everything riding on the Volt. The other issue is whether or not you're saying to people that they should hold off on a vehicle purchase until the Volt comes out--or simply reinforcing peoples preconceived notions that GM's vehicles are currently gas-hogs or uncompetitive.

Me too. GM's PR is still stuck in a timewarp...I'm hoping they can get the darn thing to work. CAR mag had a huge write-up on the Flextreme which had very similar talking points--

Great news, of course. Please serve crow with a decent side dish. I'll be happy to have been wrong.

I'm also about the same age...My first car was a Dodge Dart! (It was shortly replaced by an old Celica, with a stick so my bro couldn't drive it.) My suspicion is that parents simply don't make the time to invest in their children, regardless of what they give them. As a parent, I'm painfully aware of how little free time I have---most of it is dedicated towards my time with my kids--and my wife isn't working while they're young, despite the fact it has crimped our style and budget somewhat. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that too many adults have a sense of entitlement because, as a society, we have become a nation that likes to blame someone, anyone for our own errors. These Union guys are no different and no better. The fact that RW and co. had their salaries restored despite the piss-poor job being done must really burn some guys asses as well. Again, blame for the Fairfax situation must fall squarely at the feet of those negotiating this labor deals. Management should have known better--GM couldn't afford this situation to arise, yet they did the expedient thing rather than the right thing.

To get back on point a little: The Astra is a great start--the 1.8 was the default choice because of what's being produced in the EU. I'm sure that GM would have preferred the US Ecotecs... That being said, apparently Gas Prices and Fuel Economy concerns finally made news at the tubes: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../805140386/1148 GM's going to emphasize cars and fuel economy! Wow, are these guys a little slow.