Chris_Doane

That's what they've always called the Liberty in some foreign markets. Might just be called Liberty in the U.S. actually...I don't remember.

Holy cow! Better add coming out to that to-do list. Seriously though....um, wow, that's quite a work-load. Dont forget to enjoy your time there too. You know that whole 'best years of your life" thing. I guess the frat stuff will be part of that..

I dont know how explain the disconnect between your info and my info from the people at the show. It's possible everyone I've talked to is just a bad judge of size. You seem to think they are cars measuring the mid/high 130's (inches.) The people I talked to who saw the cars compare them to cars in the low/mid 150's. While it's certainly possible they're all wrong, it's just hard to imagine several people misjudging by 15-20 inches.

Heh well its certainly nothing like the Amanti. Heh...I mean...just look at the Amanti. It does seem like the Genesis/Azera crowd the Hyundai lineup. However, Azera is on a streched Sonta FWD platform and the Genesis is on an all new RWD platform and will have a V8.

Well, the Hyundai is an actual car too...just, not yet. They just showed it to us in 90-95% concept form. It will be on sale in 2008.

Actually Toyota themselves had plans for a HD model. I think those plans are more/less canned now.

Oh...I dont know...I can see it.

Heh, no I didn't. I just left the Echo off since it was essentially done in the U.S. by 2005. I believe they stopped shipping them to dealers in late 2003. However, you could still order one if you wanted to until early/mid 2005. 1544 units for all of 2005 27 units for all of 2006 1 unit for 2007 through March I saw the Versa referred to as B segment in several places, however I didn't check the over length on that one first, so that's my fault. The Versa sedan is definitely much longer than a Rabbit, about 11 inches. I dont know that I'd call the Versa hatch, which seems like the one to compare to the Rabbit (hatch vs. hatch), "much bigger" though. It's only about 4 inches longer. Width wise, it's actually the Rabbit that is a tiny bit bigger. It's also probably worth noting that the new SX4 sedan that just debuted in NYC will not fall into the B segment as it is about 15 inches longer than the current SX4 hatch.

That is certainly important, yes. Obviously it sells at a much higher volume and brings in more profit. If they could bump the Cobalt to 40-42 MPG range and get the design a little more visually appealing, I think that would go a long way in winning people over. Then you would start to get some of the "appliance" people buying it for just the impressive "40+ MPG" and the rest buying it for varying degrees of liking the cars looks and liking the cars economics.

No I definitely recognize your points there. However when you talk about "Americans" not liking/wanting this segment in same breath, it seems you are speaking for a broader-than-local group. So it seems like you are saying two different things at once.Also I'm not sure if the "oil panic" argument holds much water anymore. I think it's very possible that a seasonal "oil panic" may become a pretty standard, yearly thing for the time being. I hope I'm wrong about that. Whether people are buying them out of necesity or appeal on whatever level, it really boils down to a sale being a sale. You have to remember that, to many people, a car is just an appliance. For that kind of person to "like" a car may only take a great MPG # and an iPod socket. If that's what a large segment of people are looking for, you better have something to offer them or their dollars go elsewhere. Disagree due to the prices of oil. Even if gas costs $3, 4, 5 bucks only 4-5 months out of the year, people will remember those months. I disagree. There are most certainly people who buy a Mini because it is one of the small cars that gets great MPG AND actually looks cool. These are not so much the "appliance" people I mentioned before. Now I'm equating "thrifty" to good MPG. It's possible you just meant the price of the car. While the CAFE part is true to a degree, I disagree with the rest. There is a trend towards smaller, more efficient cars. GM does not want to be late to the game and miss any market share. Several OEMs, GM included, were late on the shift away from SUVs. They don't want to make that mistake twice. Also any added profit is, of course, a good thing. Perhaps, but again, some people only care about MPG. The appliance people.

Doh, how did I forget that one? All sales #'s include all bodystyles 2005 U.S. Sales Mini Cooper - 40,820 Chevy Aveo - 68,058 Honda Fit - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Hyundai Accent - 41,012 Kia Rio - 30,290 Nissan Versa - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 7,967 Scion xA - 28,033 Scion xB - 54,037 Toyota Yaris - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Total - 270,217 from 7 cars 2006 U.S. Sales Mini Cooper - 39,171 Chevy Aveo - 58,244 Honda Fit - 27,934 (was not on sale until April) Hyundai Accent - 34,735 Kia Rio - 28,388 Nissan Versa - 22,044 (was not on sale until July) Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 12,221 (SX4 was not on sale until "summer") Scion xA - 32,603 Scion xB - 61,306 Toyota Yaris - 70,308 (was not on sale until "spring") Total - 386,954 from 10 cars 2007 U.S. sales through March Mini Cooper - 8,073 / 32,292 Chevy Aveo - 15,228 / 60,912 Honda Fit - 8,837 / 35,348 Hyundai Accent - 8,272 / 33,088 Kia Rio - 6,309 / 25,236 Nissan Versa - 16,195 / 64,780 Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 3,930 / 15,720 Scion xA - 5,354 / 21,416 Scion xB - 8,500 / 34,000 Toyota Yaris - 19,186 / 76,744 3 month total - 99,884 / 399,536 from 10 cars The first number represents actual sales figures. The 2nd number is an estimate of year end figures if sales don't accelerate or decline

Weeeeell....the data doesn't really back up your opinion. In 2006, 325,648 people disagreed with you. While what you say may be true for your geographical location, it does not seem to be the best place to judge trends for the whole country. (Now this is assuming that the Trax, Beat and Groove are B segment cars. Or that a production version of any of these cars to be sold in the U.S. would be B size. There has been some debate, but, eveyone I've talked to who saw them in NYC says they are B sized. Unfortunately, no specs have been made available at this time.) All sales #'s include all bodystyles 2005 U.S. Sales Mini Cooper - 40,820 Chevy Aveo - 68,058 Honda Fit - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Hyundai Accent - 41,012 Kia Rio - 30,290 Nissan Versa - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 7,967 Scion xA - 28,033 Toyota Yaris - Not yet for sale in the U.S. Total - 216,180 from 6 cars 2006 U.S. Sales Mini Cooper - 39,171 Chevy Aveo - 58,244 Honda Fit - 27,934 (was not on sale until April) Hyundai Accent - 34,735 Kia Rio - 28,388 Nissan Versa - 22,044 (was not on sale until July) Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 12,221 (SX4 was not on sale until "summer") Scion xA - 32,603 Toyota Yaris - 70,308 (was not on sale until "spring") Total - 325,648 from 9 cars 2007 U.S. sales through March Mini Cooper - 8,073 / 32,292 Chevy Aveo - 15,228 / 60,912 Honda Fit - 8,837 / 35,348 Hyundai Accent - 8,272 / 33,088 Kia Rio - 6,309 / 25,236 Nissan Versa - 16,195 / 64,780 Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 3,930 / 15,720 Scion xA - 5,354 / 21,416 Toyota Yaris - 19,186 / 76,744 3 month total - 91,384 / 365,536 from 9 cars The first number represents actual sales figures. The 2nd number is an estimate of year end figures if sales don't accelerate or decline.

Sadly, no. Buick Century March 2007 sales = 2 units. Down from 12 in March 2006.

March 2007 sales figures for the United States: Hummer H1 = 15 units Pontiac Grand Am = 12 units Buick LeSabre = 11 units Maybach = 10 units Pontiac Sunfire = 5 units Pontiac Aztek = 2 units Chevy Astro = 2 units GMC Safari = 0 units (not kidding!)

Yea the closed down in February: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/15/rip-mot...ssic-cancelled/

Well no, that was almost a year ago. Im thinking of some annoucement about a mag closing down maybe 2-3 months ago...?

Weren't they the ones who annouced they were closing down a while back?

Hah well, in terms of length, yes, really. I know it looks 10 miles long in pics, but it doesn't look that crazy in person.

Or you could just look here where it already been posted for days and days: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showforum=53

Add 1.5 inches to the Outlook and you have the Flex. Edit: I mean in length

Haha that kind of reminds me of Top Gear's convertible people carrier episode.

*shrug* Heh, Im really not trying to be argumentative...I'm sure it seems like I am though. Just reporting what the people who've seen the car in person are telling me.

Heh OK I give up....just talked to a few more people in NYC who saw the cars and they all compare them to an Scion xA (154 in) or Honda Fit 5 door (157 in) length.

LoL...well, I dont know why Im hearing different from people who saw them yesterday. Apparently the press kits they handed out don't have any measurements or specs. Was that guy referring to the Aveo sedan (169.7 in) or hatch (152.7 in)? Matiz is 137.6 inches. Someone at NYIAS must have a tape measure!

Hahah Brenda just added this in that thread over there: "Ray, Sweetie …. if you can’t tell if it’s me or (Mr.) Chris Doane - honey - I don’t know what to say…. (How much did you have to drink at the party tonight??)"