Chris_Doane

LOL...actually he and I are the same age (28) according to his profile. I certainly dont claim to know everything about the car building process, but I think I have a better idea thanks to the people who've shared what they know with me. Anyway, Im done here. Now I know why Evok and AH-HA dont hang around much anymore. :AH-HA_wink: (You know the funny thing is, I started this thread because of the uproar I saw on Allpar over the Challenger B pillar.)

LOL...ah yes, now your true colors show through. Haaha I was trying to be Bob Lutz? Hmm, I thought I was trying to explain the engineering/validation process. I won't bother trying anymore as it's clearly lost on you. If you ever meet someone who actually engineers cars, ask them how much $50k in engineering and validation spending would get you on a volume car program. Nevermind the tooling you thought would be included in that $50k. The ability to shoot cars certainly doesn't make me an expert. My job isn't just taking photos, however. My job is all about future cars. If at all possible, I need to know what's coming and have details about future products and timing. So I work to do just that. You pick up quite a lot about the process of making cars when that's what you deal with all day. I've developed many contacts with people who engineer and build the cars you and I drive. Over the years, they've educated on me on the process, which I'm very thankful for. I can say without a doubt that the people who educated me know MUCH better than you what it takes to bring a car from the drawing board to the production line. The last time I turned a wrench? Several months. Then again nothing has broken and none of the fluids have needed changing. Though there is only about 2000 miles left on the current oil. I guess I could take some photos of myself changing it if you want...not terribly impressive though. Have I seen a 2007 CLK torn apart? Nope. Pretty sure you haven't either. Funny you mention the CLK though. That's the kind of price point you are looking at for a pillarless car these days. Clearly a league the Camaro will NOT be in.

Yes, I understand just fine. It's you that does not understand the engineering/validation process that I have been trying to explain. Glass, window motors, etc. are nothing compared to the work you would have to do on the body/structure to do what you're talking about. OEM's don't function like Monster Garage. You can't just tack something on.

Good point. Something like EDAG did with the Solstice. http://www.edaghardtop.com/ If a 3rd party company thinks there is a market for it and can afford to engineer it, more power to them.

Right, that's what I said. Generally they have to pick one type of roof to spend their engineering dollars on. A vert would still need separate validation testing whether the coupe was with or without a B pillar.

$50k gets you absolutely nothing in R&D and tooling. Maybe a shift knob or a window switch? To answer specifically, I seriously doubt the vert will be hardtop vert. So that would kinda make the idea irrelevant. Even if there were a hardtop vert, they would never put a non-functioning vert roof on a car. I'm not sure if that's what your suggesting? A roof is engineered to move or not move. Can't mix and match. That would never make it past the lawyers, much less the regulations. Also, if you want to keep costs in order, you generally want to spend your engineering dollars on one roof design. As in: -One vert roof design (if you're going to do a vert at all) -One hard top roof design per sedan or coupe model. Can't have a one coupe model with a B pillar and one coupe model without. Then the business case goes to hell. However there have been cars with soft and hard top verts available. I would imagine that if you are already doing a roof that's going to move, there would be some engineering overlap to doing both. Thus, less work to do and less engineering dollars spent. If you're suggesting they take a vert body and put sort of a hardtop "shell" on top, then you have to make structural/body changes to the car. Which means a lot of engineering dollars. Also, you'd most likely have to re-certify/validate the car in that configuration. Validation is a pretty expensive process. Certainly waaaaay more than $50k. Then your business case goes to hell again. I think a lot of people underestimate how complex and expensive car building is. I know of one OEM who requires that they put tens of thousands of miles on a car just to test new ECU software. I imagine most OEM's have a similar testing procedure. The engineers salaries and cost of fuel to run the test cars for that amount time alone would be more than $50k. Imagine what it costs when the structure of the car has to be reengineered/validated.

Wow do you have any idea how hilariously far off that is? (stupid question, of course you don't.)

Not really... It doesn't amount to just wild guessing.

Probably a Mazdaspeed3. It's real quick and the MPG doesn't kill you. The Sky RL would be in the running if it wasn't so impractical with a smaller driver/passenger area and almost no cargo space. The questionable soft top also puts it behind the Mazda. The Lancer Evo X would probably be first on the list if it was available right now. For now, the Mazda get its. Regular car when you need it to be. Smoking when you want it to be. Ford Fairl...ugh...Flex. Obviously Ford is really hurting for sales lately. "Flexlane" is set to fill a large hole in Ford's portfolio vacated by the Freestar. With such a polarizing design, it seems like sales could go either way. If they get even half of Caravan's usual annual sales, it would be good step in Ford's recovery. If it flops, that mortgage they have with the blue oval as collateral might not be looking like such a good idea.The new Malibu would probably come in 2nd, however, Ford has much more on the line with Flexlane. Well if we are talking about what I think GM would do, and not what I would do...GM would probably run the usual incentive playbook. Probably get some crazy limited deals around Memorial Day or 4th of July. Idling the plant temporarily might not be out of the question. Perhaps they might actually start advertising it? I can't remember the last time I saw a TV for the Aura. A month or two ago, they ran that one ad about GM passing around the actual COTY award to Aura owner. That ran for 1 or 2 weeks? I haven't seen anything since. It almost has to be the next generation of hybrid cars (2 mode, etc.) while work continues on making fuel cells and other technologies more viable. I'd like to say the next big thing would be diesel-hybrids, but emissions regulations seem like it would hold that back for the time being. The same could be said for regular diesel motors. However I question whether it is actually the cost of meeting regulations holding back the OEM's, or if the OEM's just plain scared the U.S. won't accept diesel as Europe has? Regular diesel Jettas already get 50-60mpg after the motor is broken in. Mate it with a next gen hybrid powertrain and you could be looking at a 100mpg car. Talk about marketing power.

Ermm...did you miss the photos of the Challenger body from inside Brampton?

With all the recent "uproar" over the Challenger B pillar....there is something you should all start warming up to... There is a pretty good chance the Camaro is going to have one too. Cost? Structural rigidity? Side impact? Yea.

And you'd be 100% wrong.

The coupe they are talking about is the next gen Tiburon. It wouldn't start anywhere near 30k. The mention of 30k in that story is a reference to the production version of the Genesis.

No.

One has more power than the other. Pretty sure its the same block. I dont know what the technical differences are.

Not necessarily.

No chance of that or the LS7. It's the LSA.

Some of the timing is off. Other parts may not be true at all.

Some of it is right...some of it isn't.

.....

No.

I was shooting through tinted glass, they didn't know I was there.

Saw these the other day and thought yalls might want to see them in a non press photo/non auto show environment. Silver CTS Black CTS White STS Tan STS (No, I didn't take any rear 3/4 pics)