Drew Dowdell

beat me to it Griff

Over the 3? yes VW? Maybe, I haven't driven the Golf, but with the reliability problems we had with my Ex's Passat, it would be an uphill battle for it. Remember, I'm coming from a CTS, I'd buy the loaded out model anyway. This is the Focus I drove. 2 Liter <I think> turbo diesel that was as refined as any Honda 4-cylinder and easily quieter. No it didn't pull to 8,000 rpm, it didn't need to, it felt like a V6. It starts at 23k Euro which is about 33k dollars but remember that exchange rates are fluid. If they produced it here <or in Mexico> it would be substantially less expensive for us. If the price was say, 27k dollars, would you pay that for a hard top cabrio with NAV, leather, great handling, and a 4 cylinder diesel that pulls like a V6 and gets 40mpg or better? Want to keep the $10,000 Focuses? Fine. Brand the Euro-Focus as a Mercury and BAM, Mercury is relevant again. Edit: I like the *look* of the Astra, but the engine and weird option combinations give me pause. I'd have to drive it first. If we had gotten the Astra Twintop, then yeah, I'd go Saturn.

<-- seen one in person <-- ridden in one <-- driven one <-- would prefer it over the US focus.

GAaah! My eyes! All those button and knobs! :AH-HA_wink: In this price class the Audi A6 gets my vote for most attractive: then again, I've always wanted to be at the helm of the Enterprise.

And there's the rub. There really isn't anything wrong with the STS's interior.... it is just conservative and doesn't "Wow". I've never felt the BMW interiors were "Wow". Both are just simple and handsome but nothing special. The main difference between the two is the BMW replaces all the small buttons with one big one. People want the STS to be a 2008 Duesenburg for 60 easy payments of $299.99 with no money down and that is just not realistic.

people need to get a life. I drove like an idiot as a kid, I didn't need a commercial from McDonalds to tell me to do it.

heh I love this one

OMG PONTIAC IS TEH SHELVED@@!@!@@!!!!!

I have socialistic tenancies for businesses that end up being natural monopolies.... utilities, some areas of transportation, those sorts of things. I also tend to not like market consolidation and would like to put stronger limits on mergers and acquisitions. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

The LaCross obviously has the ES directly in it's crosshairs.

that's just the lexus cars. the lexus trucks are also down 5.4%

w00t! 531 views!

Sorry, I'd go with a Cobalt, Malibu, or Impala over a Vibe, G6, or GrandPrix.

Ok... that's two. Ute makes 3 if you count it as a separate model. Point is, Pontiac is a lot closer to irrelevance now than Olds was when it died.

HHR owners seem to love their cars and tell everyone they know about them. Someone I know just had her 100k mile Silleoett totaled and is now HHR shopping because two of her co-workers have been raving about theirs.

actually the Honda humper did that as a slight against the STS.

3.6 and 3.6DI and LS-whatever. yeah, they're done. oh yea... and a 3800 series III

See this is where I disagree and am probably going to get shouted down for it. At the end of it's life, Oldsmobile had much more relevant product in terms of it's stated mission than Pontiac does now in terms if it's stated mission. Oldsmobile was supposed to be understated yet classy in the price segment each vehicle occupied. In that regard, Olds succeeded. Other than Solstice, where is the "Driving Excitement" at Pontiac?

I live on eating straw man arguments.

wtf, the CTS and malibu aren't a good enough start? yes, this was a very ouch month because fleet sales are down. I much rather have unprofitable fleet sales down while Enclave, Acadia, CTS, and Malibu sell close to sticker. Don't care about market share as long as the company is profitable and keeps putting out product as good or better than the recent releases. Keep doing that and market share will be back on it's own as Toyota keeps shooting itself in the foot and Chrysler meets a timely demise.

yes but Acura meant to put that there...... Cadillac just had a picture of a blank center stack and played darts with it.

not a fan of the colors, but I'm sure you there are other schemes available that would look hot.

ah yes... because round knobs and rectangle buttons are hideous.....

Not even close...