Drew Dowdell

I’d love to find a final year of the first Gen Aurora, but they are almost always beat to hell. People didn’t preserve them.

???????

That BMW is a 1998 or 1999. 1997 or 1998 I'm assuming some of this stuff is getting sold... so maybe.

Well within range of me if you don't mind a visitor

*perks up at the Motorcycles*

I'm sorry to hear that @Robert Hall. And I'm sorry I wasn't around to be aware of it.

I feel like I missed a couple episodes somewhere...

In the Kia Luxury Brand thread. Any luxury SUV competes directly with any other luxury suv of the same price regardless of purpose or styling.

Really? That’s odd. You think a Defender and an X4 are competition.

If it bases at $50k, it’s going to have significant competition when it gets here in *checks notes* two years. Chevy will have 2 EV crossovers and an EV truck in that same range. Tesla will still have their rabid fanbois. Kia and Hyundai have entries too.

I think this will do okay because it’s “cute”. It will likely be the price that’s the killer.

Post pics of your rides, but try and get them all in one frame!

This is the spiritual successor to the Neu Beetle. Retro, cute, but this time a modern powertrain and roomy enough for people/families to actually buy.

Because they operate as separate companies that share tech rather than the GM model of multiple divisions that develop together.

@smk4565, did you hack into @balthazar's account? Jaguar/LR are barely the volume of the Denali trim at GMC. I wasn't speaking of volume, I'm speaking of differentiation of purpose. Defender and Discovery buyers are not cross-shopping against the E-Pace or F-Pace, they're looking at the Lexus GX, or maybe Yukon Denali or Grand Cherokee Summit if they're open to brand-slumming it. E-Pace and F-pace buyers are going to cross-shop with Macan or X4/5 or GLE "coupe" or the Infiniti QX70 if they still made it. The Genesis GV70 and GV80 are direct broadside torpedo shots to the GLC/RX/MDX (the XT5 should be here, but it's so outclassed on the interior I can't put it in the list with a straight face) and the GLE/QX60/Aviator respectively. These are the big cushy cruiser crossovers. What I'm saying is there is room for KLB to do a better Defender / Discovery / GX460... or an Escalade/Navigator/LX (hybrid or EV only of course) then add the Stinger with a substantially upgraded interior and a "rugged" small EV (think Baby Rivian) and you've got yourself a luxury brand that doesn't overlap with Genesis.

You're thinking old style rebadging. That is exactly what I wouldn't want to do. Where Genesis is curvy, KLB should be square. Where Genesis is plush (and their higher trims are very plush), KLB should be firm and restrained. Designed with function in mind rather than flare.

Yes... but they'll compete for different people. The LR Defender and the Lincoln Aviator and Acura MDX and Porsche Macan and Lexus GX460 all start at around $50k +/- $5k Are you suggesting that there is a lot of cross-shopping between those models just because they're the same price SMK @balthazar? I'm suggesting that Genesis looks at the GLE/Aviator/Macan buyers while while KLB does the more off-roady, woodsy Defender / GX buyers There's nobody left that has two luxury divisions around the same price class except perhaps Jaguar-Land Rover. But it is exactly them who I would point to as an example of suitable differentiation. Their issues aren't from competing with each other but a host of other things.

That’s why I’m suggesting that they do not overlap, but hit different “styles” of luxury. Genesis takes on the metro-chic luxury of Mercedes. KLB goes after the woodsy “I own a working estate In Connecticut” like LandRover and the Lexus GX/LX

From the mail bag.... occasionally I get these e-mails regarding this 10-year-old article in protest to @Blake Noble's conclusions.... usually, they're just one-line retorts calling us stupid... but I got this one last week and it was very well written. Dennis says: "I would disagree with your review of the Chrysler 2.2 - I had cars with both the 2.2 and 2.5 - my mom had an 83 Plymouth Reliant with the 2.2 and auto trans - she drove it until she quit driving at about 160,000 miles - when we sold it. I did have the head off once I believe, or maybe just the valve cover gasket - the main thing on this car is that it needed to be tuned just a bit out of specs for it to run right - if set within specs it would not run well at all until warmed up. Frustrating thing is that the mechanic showed me that it made very little difference in emissions tuning it to the place where it would run great. The car was comfortable, had one a/c repair at about 100,000 miles, roomy, and I thought it was an attractive car - hers had a nice dash and interior - unlike the ugly cars of today. I did try to keep this car well maintained - so that helped no doubt. But at over 160,000 miles, it was running great, not burning oil, and got great gas mileage. The 2.5 engine was very smooth, but I would take the slightly better gas mileage of the 2.2 over the smoothness of the 2.5. And the 2.5 still sounded not-sporty at a stoplight in my 87 Daytona" Dennis, we love to disagree with people and we love when people disagree with us. It's part of what makes this site fun. So please consider signing up and join in the fun.

The Camaro is an example of a product that is probably best in class for its purpose but no one wants it because the only people who can afford it and live with a sports coupe are too old to get in and out of it. The people it is marketed to want SUVs because they are building their lives and households and need to haul crap home from Home Depot.

The Facebook group is celebrating but there is still a lot of bitterness about it. Even if every single person reinstates their original reservation, the trust of the company is broken and it will not be forgotten.

*rushes over to facebook*

A lot of people on the Rivian group are saying exactly that. There are those who are saying "I could afford it, but RJ (the CEO) lied to us and now I've lost all faith in the company. I've canceled my order". Rivian needed this Fanboi base like Tesla has. They royally screwed the pooch on this. The stock is tanking for good reason. They pissed off the fanbois. I'll try and post some screenshots later.

This is actually Rivian's second bait and switch. The first was when they promised all of the reservation holders early access to the IPO. Then they advertised the IPO at a certain price for a month or two. Then the share price shot up a lot right before the IPO. There are people who reserved their Rivian on day one of reservations who still haven't gotten theirs. They had their configuration submitted and their price agreed on. Now they're getting e-mails of $15k - $20k price increases on their reservation. That's not how reservations work.

Up to. Yes, depending on the options selected. There is also some slight of hand by Rivian as well where some things stayed the same price but were decontented. Like the new standard battery pack has 54 miles less range while the original battery spec went up by $6k in price. Some optional paint prices went up $1000, and every color but silver is an optional color. One of the interior colors went up by $2k. So right there, getting the old standard battery, a paint color, and an interior other than black and your cost went up $9k. Still want the original spec quad motor AWD instead of the new standard dual motor AWD? That’ll be another $6k. Hitting a $15k increase with just 4 options is pretty easy to do.