Drew Dowdell

@knightfan26917 believes that something like RWD or FWD, EV or Gas, is something that is a defining characteristic of a nameplate. I don't agree. I don't think that changing which wheels drive the car necessarily ruing the spirit of the nameplate.... maybe on something like a Corvette... but a vehicle like the Riviera or Eldorado has been RWD and FWD and the FWD models are arguably the best ones of the bunch. I'm still miffed at Chevy for not calling the Silverado EV the Avalanche since it is so clearly a design descendant of the name, but Cort would disagree with me there because it's an EV and not gas powered.

It's a bit of a selection bias there. R&D dollars have been poured into EVs over the last 10 years while R&D for ICEs has been drastically cut. I don't remember exactly when it was, but somewhere about 5 or 6 years ago, several automakers including VW and MB came out and said they were no longer developing new engine platforms and were just going to let their current (at the time) engines live out their useful production cycle with minor refinements. Now, I'm sure that policy has changed since then, but it shows where the development dollars were flowing at the time. Additionally, EVs also had the most room for improvement, and selecting 2 years is cherry picking at its worst. Those 2 years ALSO happen to be the switch over from 2nd gen EVs on primarily gas platforms to 3rd gen EVs on dedicated EV platforms. The 4th gen is just starting now with the Stellantis and MB platforms that can easily do both. Walmart is motivated solely by profit and Amazon has already proven that delivery vans with 150 mile range are a perfect use case for home delivery. They aren't providing chargers out of benevolence, they are building charging stations, paid for in large part by state and federal rebate checks, for the primary purpose of powering their home delivery fleet. Amazon may have led the field with mass deployment of EV delivery vans, but Walmart is going a step further in getting tax dollars to build out their infrastructure. I'm sure if it wasn't a requirement of the tax rebates, Walmart would rather you didn't use their chargers at all.

Yeah, $1200 a year is too high. I'll just pocket the money and keep building it up in the maintenance and repair fund I have that part of our expense checks go into. I'm going to leave it active till about September or October and then kill it. The car has largely been solid, but we did have some major repairs for a differential and an internal oil leak. The warranty did pay for itself there and I'm sure is a factor on why they raised my plan so much this renewal. I'd honestly buy another one if I wasn't set on an EV. For a long distance comfort cruiser, it's been a great car for the $23k we paid for it. We did a getway over the holiday weekend out to Columbus, Ohio and managed 29 mpg out of it. I've driven the Wagonner S a couple times. It's on the list because it's around 300 mile range and it's the size and shape Albert wants. He wants the Acura more though. I want the Lyriq more. I want the G80 EV the most, but I'd have to put the Avalanche into storage for that because he still wants a crossover for himself.

I don't think old tech / new tech is going to matter to him on the charging front. He's going to charge at home on Level 2 mostly and spending a lot of extra money to charge 7 minutes faster a couple times a year isn't a good ROI. He's gonna kill the vehicle on mileage, so by the time his kids are bigger it will be time for a replacement vehicle anyway.

Yeah, it sounds like it's purely a spreadsheet decision for you plus having a few niceties. I'm very much in the same boat right now. Chrysler just increased the monthly payment on my extended warranty to $100/m from $60/m. We own the car outright, but now that warranty is getting to be too high when you consider it's also a $250 deductible for a repair claim, so we're gonna start shopping soon once some respective job changes settle down. I'm looking hard at used Lyriqs for now because I would really love having Super Cruise for all the highway travel I do. He won't be driving much at all anymore because his new place he can get to by bus. He likes the look of the ZDX and Wagoneer S. I want to like the Mach-E but I'm meh on the interior. He doesn't want something EV9 or Ioniq 9 sized. There's no equation for us that makes buying an EV financially better than keeping our 300C, but it's got 105k miles on it and that's typically when we start looking to trade. That said, I've been banking 50% of both of our monthly mileage checks for a while now so between the trade in value and a sizable down payment fund, we should be good when the time comes.

Yea, at those numbers an EV9 doesn't break even. It depends on what kind of capability you're looking for if you need that kind of hauling capabilities. I think your Prologue / Blazer idea is pretty sound and you might even pull off a slight monthly savings that way if you can find a deal on one and drop the Navi.

You both have points kinda. The Kia is going to depreciate, but with the mileage you're doing, everything is going to depreciate. You're gonna get killed on whatever you buy or you're gonna get killed fueling the Navigator. If you're making payments on the Navigator, you might end up netting out to the same monthly on an EV9 after subtracting fuel costs, but having a substantially newer vehicle. That said, $25k for a near full-size crossover in this economy means it's gonna have 75k miles or more if you find an amazing deal, so at $40k, you're just buying lower mileage regardless of how it's powered. A Kia Telluride with 15k miles is... $42k. A Kia EV9 with 15k miles is... $43k.

When you have an hour, go test drive one. Put it into sport mode and beat on it a little. You'll be surprised. Yeah it's only like 220hp or whatever, but the torque is instant.

Keeping the Navigator brings me back to the 2016+ Volt idea. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/784272025 And I know they're not the best looking, but they ride great and they're remarkably fun to drive. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/784844959 Or, if you want a bit of style: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/766048516

I was just looking for an affordable commuter scooter that would save more than your gas bill per month in the Navigator.

Undetermined at this time. Just that BMW trademarked it.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/782297241

They have the X7 and eventually an X8.

I'm old enough to remember when there were Xes on the eyes of cartoon characters, that meant they were dead.

That brings up another good point. This may seem obvious, but the calculus for an EV works better the worse the mileage of the equivalent gas vehicle is. I remember a while ago people trying to compare the Hummer EVs to a Corolla and saying it didn't make financial sense for the Hummer. But the real comparison is probably something more like an Escalade. A Hummer EV may not be a great savings compared to a Corolla, but it blows away an Escalade.

To many variables to be able to make a blanket statement. Are you in a cheap gas state or a cheap electricity state? Are you in a state that has big differences in car insurance? Are you going to charge at home on Level 2 or are you using Superchargers mostly? You'll save money on oil changes by driving the Tesla, but you'll pay more in tires every 5(?) years simply because the Model 3 has bigger, more expensive tires. Are you buying a RWD Model 3 or an AWD Model 3? Are you buying the standard Corolla or the hybrid? My bet is that if you're in a situation that makes an EV make more sense (cheap electricity to charge at home) and you drive a lot of miles, the savings on gas wipes out the difference in insurance pretty quickly It's a full pros-cons spreadsheet. I asked Claude to calculate it for us. So it looks like as long as the difference in insurance is less than $900 a year, the Model 3 wins. Personally, even though I loath Tesla, I would probably pick the Model-3 over the Corolla for my use-case scenario just to have the self-driving feature. Having a less exhausting journey for myself is helpful being a consultant. That wouldn't necessarily be something I can quantify in a spreadsheet. My travels, currently, are also through mountainous areas that kill fuel economy in my gassers but could be advantageous for an EV for regen. It's a weird "uphill both ways" scenario that I could use to my charging advantage if I was careful. (I'm tempted to rent a Tesla just to try it now)

Eh, I think the Tesla would still end up being cheaper, but pretty much any other EV would be cheaper still due to the Tesla insurance issue. I think comparing an Ioniq 6 to a nicely equipped Sonata 2.5T is a closer match and likely similar insurance rates. the BMW i4 v BMW 440i is one where the performance gets pretty close and the price difference is a rounding error. In the end the i4 will be cheaper because of fuel economy and not needing premium gas. Ionic 9 v. Tahoe is another as long as you're not trying to tow 9,000 lbs and it is just doing family hauler duty, the pricing between the two models is very close.

Yeah, that wasn’t a very good comparison and it wasn’t fair to either the Tesla or the Corolla, just in different ways. A Corolla really isn’t a market equivalent to a model 3. A more fair comparison would be something like a Cadillac CT4 or a Buick Regal if it was still made.

I'll look into it, but no issues that I've heard. The only thing I've heard is common with most direct injection engines and that is carbon build up. The GM 2.7T like to get beat on. Don't baby it. Blow that carbon out of there.

First Gen Volt is abandonware, yes. Your situation actually sounds ideal for a short-term commuter scooter, mostly because Volts can be had so cheap. On a long commute like that, you'd be into the gas sometimes and into the regen part of the way on the trip and still getting 45 mpg when on gas. If you can charge at both ends, even better. The way you commute you really could take acquisition costs in mind because whatever you get is going to have to be considered disposable. What makes it key though is cost. You can get a 2016+ Volt with 60k miles for like $12,900. You'd end up with a $300/m or lower payment and that like 2.5 Navigator fill-ups. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/783656429?makeCode=CHEV&marketExtension=include&mileage=70000&modelCode=VOLT&numRecords=25&sortBy=relevance&zip=15201

I would tell you to stay away from both the E Golf and Focus E. They're basically abandonware by their manufacturers. You'd have to go into it with the attitude that any powertrain failure could total it. The Volt 2016+ could be an interesting option as a commuter because they're dirt cheap

Yep. And I think they got the energy density a little higher than Tesla's. Not a huge jump, but enough to matter and bring the vehicles over the 300 mile range mark will still keeping battery size in check.

The concern is also largely going to disappear in the emerging generation of batteries. LFP chemistry (available in some Teslas and supposed to be coming in Hyundai/Kia/Genesis soon) have degredation curves that far exceed a vehicle lifetime. We're talking over a million miles before the batteries reach 80% of design capacity. The downside of LFP is they don't have the energy density that standard EV batteries (NMC) have, meaning you either have to be comfortable with less range or an even bigger battery pack. GM has LMR batteries on the way also. These are a medium point between standard EV batteries an LFP. They have 30% plus more energy density than LFPs. There hasn't been extensive degredation testing of this chemistry yet, but it is expected to be well above NMC and closer to LFP. Even if its 500k miles plus instead of 1 millon, it is functionally the same as LFP since so few cars reach that mileage anyway. What's interesting is that LMR and LFP could make the pursuit of super-capacitors obsolete. The only advantage super capacitors would have is rapid charging and possibly weight, but at the speeds we have today with EV charging, it might not be worth the cost for a technology that multiple automakers are struggling to bring to market.

Yeah, it was in the news a lot in the past year because a certain segment was saying it was proof that EVs weren't the way forward. GM spent a billion or so rebuilding that plant.

They rebuilt the towanda plant almost from the ground up for these engines. I’ll reserve judgement for now.