The O.C.

You wanna shake up the (compact-car) marketplace? Why not slap the 2.8L, VVT 210hp V6 into the Cobalt SS and/or LTZ? Why do I suggest this? BECAUSE NO ONE is doing it...! GM was one of the pioneers (I think) of bringing V6 power to the compact segment (J-cars.) Why can't they do it again? Yes I know it would add weight, reduce fuel economy, and add cost....but GM would be bringing to market a domestic alternative to the previous Jetta VR6 (re....small car, big and more importantly REFINED engine) and would give them something unique in the segment no one else is offering.

.....and I'm driving probably the best car GM makes.....(C6)......and just ordered what is most likely the second-best car GM makes.....(CTS)...... That's TWO healthy votes-of-confidence for the General from me......regardless of my often-scathing criticism of GM.

I thought the 2.4L was quite nice in the HHR when matched to the 4-speed auto. It did seem to rev quite a bit quicker. However, it most certainly doesn't feel like 170hp. It felt more like 130hp....but it was very quiet and smooth. Maybe the HHR is packing on a bit more weight than any of us really know...?

CARBIZ....no offense....but your statement above is the same sort of pessimistic view that GM has been taking for too long..... They've got TONS of talent at that company. The problem is is that no one in the upper ranks will allow the talent to shine. Believe it or not....it doesn't take a Lutz-type figure in an organization to turn out ground-breaking, attractively-styled, and well-executed products. GM's got the talent to do it themselves. I truly believe it's a matter of General Motors not being able to see the big picture....not truly understanding what the market is really like....and letting the bean-counters dumb-down just about any innovative product decision or design that comes down the pike. Why else would Europe and Australia get the kind of GM products they do.....and we get the $h! in America that they give us? Don't tell me it's because the markets and consumers are different. I think we've all seen that the mass market in THIS country IS gravitating towards the types of products that GM sells overseas. The sales numbers, market share numbers, and media "influence" illustrate that quite effectively. It's just that GM is letting the Asians and Europeans (in this country) have those consumers instead of keeping them themselves.

I can't remember the last time I saw a Chevette on the road.......

Uh....have you ever DRIVEN a new Hyundai Sonata? Or sat inside a Kia Spectra that has nice, SOFT touch plastics on the dash and door panels (hint, hint...Cobalt product planners)? It's no longer JUST the warranty. BTW....you are correct....not all of GM's cars deserved the whippings they get.....but 85% of them DO deserve it.....

Let me do some math.....JUST to counter the hypocrites...... Since there are some on C&G that LOVE to point out how COMBINED Silverado and Sierra numbers outsell F-150s..... 300/Charger - 18,850 500/Montego - 10,969 Lucerne - 10,690 For what it's worth....I'd take a Lucerne any day over a 500/Montego.....but not over a Charger/300. I would probably still go with the Avalon Touring....but I don't know about the Azera because I've never driven one.

Just a thought.....did you look for rental-car bar-codes? Myrtle Beach is a HUGE tourist area....with lots of rental cars.... I see a fair number of Lucernes here in SoCal....ALL with rental-car bar-codes.

I know you are a big Buick fan.....but how....seriously....CAN you make this statement with a straight face?

Lutz PUBLICLY stated when LaCrosse was being introduced that they (GM) were going directly after Lexus ES.....specifically with the CXS model. Obviously....now that LaCrosse has been rendered not much more than another GM midsize "rental queen," it's the Lucerne they are touting as Buick's match for the ES...

Hmmm.... I thought the article was spot-on. It spelled out quite accurately how the Impala is a prime example of what's wrong with GM today. Bad car? Nah... But totally devoid of any passion for design, engineering, or execution.

Ok....since you went there...I'll rip THIS post of yours to threads also. First of all....as Evok pointed out repeatedly....Camry and Accord (not to mention the others in the segment) are VASTLY outselling the Malibu...AT PREMIUM PRICES. That means people are willing to pay for what they perceive as a better purchase decision. I don't think someone that can only spend $5K less....is a "poor person." How do you "defend" the Hyundai Sonata? That car has a similar pricing strategy (as Malibu) relative to the Japanese sedans. Ironically, that car has been a big success for Hyundai relative to the sales of the previous-generation Sonata and is arguably a more stylish car (than Malibu) and is engineered to a much higher level (than Malibu.) Alas....that is just MHO. What about your comments about the seats in a Vectra? Sorry my friend.....the seats in a Malibu have NOTHING to do with the seats in a Vectra. At least they certainly didn't seem to be the same chairs when I sat in numerous Vectras in Frankfurt. Finally just to show how very little you even know about your OWN products you sell.....you tell me if I want a nicer interior to "buy an SS." ANYONE that knows Chevys knows that the Malibu "SS" models aren't the most "luxurious" interiors in a Malibu. That would be the leather/suede interiors on the uplevel LTZ model. SS models are cloth/vinyl combos.....and other than color (ebony), and a three-spoke wheel....not that different than mainstream Malibus. FINALLY......an SS blowing away an Accord V6? Hmmm.....from C&D road tests.... Malibu Maxx SS - 0-60 in 6.9secs..... Honda Accord EX V6 - 0-60 in 7.0secs.....(original '03 road test.) I would'nt consider a 0.1sec difference "blowing away" the Accord. In fact, you BETTER hope that Accord is not a coupe or sedan with a 6-speed manual....because it's 5.9sec 0-60 will embarrass an SS Malibu....and stay on the heels of a V8 Impala SS.

ABSOLUTELY it does. That's the problem. Those things were issues with the old Malibu.....and GM up-and-develops a brand-new Malibu on a brand-new architecture.....and that car exhibits the very same negative attributes.

They don't have to. The public is already indicating to GM their judgement of what they want a car to do, how much it will cost to buy, and who is buying them. $50K retail Malibus. $350K (roughly based upon about 25% fleet) retail Camrys. And GM is not listening to that buying public.

I'm getting sick of people using this as an excuse. The Koreans used to get slammed by the press universally too. Why? Because they built $h! cars. Guess what? Many Korean cars now get fairly positive, if not rave, reviews. I remember a few midsize-sedan comparison tests where a new Sonata finished towards the top of the pack. Why? Because they started building cars that were better engineered....better styled....and built better to fit the needs and desires of the consumers in the marketplace. Arguably they had an even BIGGER hill to climb than GM did..... ....but GM just continues to be the press' whippin' boy....why? Because they REFUSE to engineer, design, and execute mainstream products that have any lasting appeal or solidarity in the marketplace.

To back up Evok..... I remember standing NEXT to him at the auto show when they introducted the Malibu....and I remember how utterly stunned we were at how middle-of-the-road and how generic, bland, and boring it was (and not in a Camry-sort-of-way.) Do you remember Evok? In fact I even remember the car that they had up on the display was a dark-grey/dark-green color..... THAT same day....he and I BOTH predicted that this car would be a failure for GM.

And as Evok's previous thread pointed out, in '05, only about $50K RETAIL customers purchased Malibu. That's not a very significant amount......

I am. I'm sure the one thing Malibu has going for it is that it's mechanicals WILL be reliable over the long haul. Problem is....most other manufacturers today build vehicles that will have reliable mechanicals over the long haul. Other than that, the vehicle falls behind just about every other competing car in the segment in most-to-all other areas....including the Koreans. So....i don't feel Malibu is a "good car."

The Malibu has a trash interior that, in the words of C&D, "feels like if you turned the car upside down and shook it, the whole interior would fall out in pieces." That's a great way of describing how I feel about the interior quality and fit-and-finish. Every Malibu I've been in has nice plastic on the dash top and door panels. Everything else feels like it was pieced together by the lowest bidding supplier. The cloth seats were unsupportive and back-achingly-uncomfortable on a 250-mile trip from Fresno to the Bay Area. Not to mention manual upshift buttons placed on the shifter right where MOST people would put their thumbs to shift out of park....what's wrong with most everyone else's idea of a manual shift gate off to the left or right of the normal shift gate? To me, it's always been a prime example of General Motors engineering a vehicle to the lowest common denominator. I'd MUCH rather own the Sonata LX V6 I'm driving as a rental car right now than I would a comparable Malibu....and that's SAD.

BMW decided there was too much brand-equity in "3"-series and moved away from renaming the coupe and convertible a "4"-series. The 2-doors and convertibles have historically followed the introduction of the sedans by about a year or so.

My critiques.... It looks like high housing costs really impacted this list.....except for Fairfield, which is still pricey. CA cities suffered as a result.... 10) I don't know about Eden Prairie....but Minneapolis is a pretty nice city....it may be midwest, but it's no "rust-belt" city. Much newer and cleaner than other midwestern cities such as Detroit, Cleveland, Indianapolis, etc. 9) I'm surprised Fairfield made the list with how high the housing costs are there and how difficult a commute into NYC is now. Boise is beautiful.....one of my favorite cities. Amazing how a city of about only 200K people can be so vibrant and big-city-like. 7) Scottsdale I'm also a big fan off. Yes it's hot in the summer, but the city brings some charm and culture into the Valley of the Sun. The only real downsides are sprawl (it's quite a large city now in area) and an inflated ego due to the increasing wealth in the area (....my friend that lives in PHX tells me they refer to Scottsdale now as "The 'Dale" a take off of Orange County's "The O.C.") 6) Been there. Aunt and Uncle live in next-door Leawood. I don't see the appeal. Lots of cookie-cutter strip centers, shopping malls, chain restaurants, and subdivisions. It's flat. It's ugly. 5) Never been there. 4) Interesting take on a "master-planned" community. 3) Texas.....grew up there. Hot, humid, muggy, ugly, and no culture. 2) Naperville.....see my comments on #6 (Overland Park.) Also a non-descript, yet somehow upscale suburb of Chicago. My uncle used to work there. I don't get this appeal either. 1) Fort Collins is a great little town....and has a young, college-type upbeat feel. It just seems to me that the lists are all about compiling statistics.....and the statistics are formulted to appeal to "typical" american families. When I put in MY requirements, New York and Los Angeles were the top two cities that came up. How NY got there when I put weather as a top priority amazes me.....but that's what came up.

Not the same thing....

Actually CARBIZ, you hit the nail on the head...! Thanks for saving me the trouble! <The O.C. ingoring the obvious sarcasm from CARBIZ>

Something tells me that '07 was to be the last year for the 3800 because it can't meet the new emissions requirements that come about in 2008. That's why GM developed the "new" 3900 V6 in the first place....or so I'm told....as a replacement for the "old" 3800. I would venture a guess that the 3900 becomes the LaCrosse and Grand Prix base engine. It's already certified for use in the W-body thanks to the Impala/MC. I don't know about Lucerne.....or what would replace it there.....maybe the 3.6L?

When you are designing a new car, these are not "pointless" things. Every little detail and every little penny spent is evaluated to the hilt. The complexity in the decision-making on where to spend money on a car and what features to include would amaze you.