The O.C.

OK....here's all my Cobalt bitches.......since you brought it up...... The good? An attractive exterior design.......a great engine....... That's about it. Seriously sub-standard interior fit-and-finish and materials, cheap feeling switchgear....specifically HVAC controls (they thankfully integrated the GM-corporate radio.) Average seats. Dull driving dynamics (except SS and SS supercharged.) Basically the base car feels rental-grade. For example, a base Focus still feels like a driver's car. It's rental-grade also, but doesn't feel like it. I guess it all boils down to the cheap feel that the car imparts to me.....much of it coming from the interior.

Are you following me again? (j/k)

Yeah....but FORD has managed to give us a more-useable third-row seat in a more compact (relatively-speaking) SUV. Why should GM "force" me to move up to a more ungainly-sized Suburban to get a decent third-row when I want a more manageably-sized vehicle? BTW....the third-row in a Suburban is little better at all than the one in the Tahoe.....looks like they added the space in the cargo area instead of the third-row area.....(when comparing Suburban and Tahoe at LA)

Didn't MT pick the Expedition EL over the Suburban a month or two back? After extensive looks at both Tahoe/Suburban and the Expedition twins, it's shocking how much more user-friendly the Fords are in terms of the rear seats, cargo room, etc. As much as I like the dash and interior design of the new GMT-900s.....I'm not so sure I'd get them over the Ford....... If you are really using the SUVs as they were designed, the Fords win easily in my book.

You are just trying to find an excuse to Toyota-bash...... They may not be the most exciting vehicles, but the old Camry was still more competent than a comparable Malibu or the old Impala and the current Corolla still has a much-higher level of interior fit-and-finish and material quality than a Cobalt-owner could ever dream of. Sure Fly....it's poplular to try to bash the Camry and Corolla.....but they are WAY-competent cars....and that's why people keep buying them. (re...I said "competent" not exciting.)

......but if no one WANTS to buy them.....? Guys the issue CONTINUES to be ignored by GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Wagoner and his counterparts need to stop making excuses and whining that they "don't get fair treatment in the media about their accomplishments..." and they need to focus on the REAL problem... WHY do many consumers simply not DESIRE a domestic automobile? It's a complex question with no easy answer......but until the Big 3 tackle the REAL problem, no amount of whining over the media will do them ANY good.

It's an interesting read.....but basically the author points to the quality and fuel economy topics and avoids one of the main reasons (perhaps THE main reason) that Americans are not buying as many domestic automobiles as in the past..... High quality or good fuel economy aside....with a few exceptions, the domestic auto manufacturers are simply not building cars that consumers over here WANT to buy.....be it from a design/style standpoint, features standpoint (pushrod V6s, GM?), or desirability standpoint (ever compare the ride, handling, driving, and interior quality of an Accord versus a Malibu?) People out here don't buy a domestic car because they don't feel it won't last, or guzzles gas.....the bigger problem is that they don't buy a domestic car because they simply wouldn't be SEEN in one....or simply do not find them as well engineered, designed, or styled.

When did you hear that? IN fact, up until the current generation, Miata didn't even have "pull" handles on the outside.....they were always the "flipper-up" type....??

OK all....let's look at the current Malibu pics again......regarding the center console to the center stack..... Can any of you (Fly) tell me that you think the Malibu's looks better integrated than the last-gen Camry??? Plus, I'll say it once again......you'll think differently once you sit in the Malibu, grab the console with your hand, and wobble it back-and-forth in it's mountings......I can guarantee you the Camry's is WAY more solidly attached.....feels like it was made that way....even if it IS off-center....

I don't understand your point...... I don't ever remember a Camry console being wobbly and flimsily-attached.... Looks to me like they designed that console to meet up with the dash.... Not even close to the same thing as the Malibu

Unfortunately, that's an old-age GM attitude that's led way too many product-development cycles.... It's one of the main reasons they are facing the challenges that they are today.

Of the remaining ("modern") 6-passenger cars available (all GM) I've never found the center position in an Impala/LaCrosse or Lucerne/DTS as even remotely comfortable....even for a short trip. It's totally pointless. In FACT, in the Impala/LaCrosse, if you try to sit in the center position, your butt sits right on top of the seatbelt connectors for the driver and passenger (and I do NOT have a "big" butt.) So explain to me #1) How that is comfortable? and #2) How is the driver and passenger to be able to latch their seatbelts? I don't even find the interiors that more "spacious" without the center console. The other points made in this thread as to why they are going away/have gone away have already been well made.

But to me.....regardless of the color, the interior just looks plain junky. And I'm not really even talking about the plastics and trim quality.....it's more the fit-and-finish that looks like it was designed in to meet the lowest quality demoninator.... For example, the cheap console that wobbles.....and doesn't come close to lining up with the center stack....almost like two different committees designed each piece and never talked to each other first....

So does my compliment on your HOT body get my "warning" removed?

I HAD to order it. It was hard enough just finding "Sport" models in stock. 6-speeds were non-existent....except for one local Cadillac dealership that ordered a bunch of loaded 2.8L luxury models with the 6-speed manual by mistake. LOL The only thing I would change is to make Navigation available. It's really inexcusable that you can't order it on this car.....especially since it's available with the 17-inch sport package and standard on the v-Series.....

OK....this was just hilarious.....! Cory.....all my best to you bud.....happy (belated) birthday!

Totally disagree......the I-5 is a piece of crap (IMHO.) I've driven quite a few of the trucks.....but you don't even need to drive the truck to experience the rattly and unrefined sound and feel of this motor. It's more rough and tumble than many I-4s around....and has nowhere near the NVH refinement that you find in the VW 2.5L I-5 or the Volvo (Ford) I-5. Those trucks also don't feel 200+ hp strong to me, either...... To a V6, it doesn't compare in performance.....it doesn't compare in NVH......and it (seemingly...based upon buff mag tests, etc.) doesn't compare in fuel economy. It's too bad....don't know where GM went wrong.....because the I-6 is a wonderful motor....

eeewwwww......we don't like FLACID

I disagree......the standard seats could hardly be called "sport" seats. They are exactly the same as the base car seats but in black leather with colored inserts and "SS" embroidery.... The Recaros are VERY nice however.... I don't know if I would have placed it in last place as a result, but I do agree with their assessment of the very cheap and plasticky interior. Even compared to other "economy" cars, the Cobalt is the only one that screams "rental" even in SS trim.

Awwww.....we'll be there tomorrow....! I was really hoping to run into Croc..... I'll have to make sure to get ALL dressed up for him......

.....and of course you have profit and revenue data from Chrsyler, Toyota, and Honda on their minivan programs to back up your claim of "unprofitability".....correct??

I agree...... It's like GM is trying to justify their exit from this segment as a result of "declining sales" in the segment......when in reality, if they had produced a competitive minivan from day one, I'm sure their outlook on the whole segment would be alot different. Honda and Toyota don't seem to be having many problems with their minivans...

OCCarNut and I will be at LA probably just about all day on Saturday....! If anyone else is going and wants to meet up, PM me on C&G and I'll PM you back my cell phone and we can try to connnect..... Cheers! Chris

The state is something like close to 50% democrat.....50% republican.....not NEARLY as liberal as most of the rest of the country would like to think..... Also, for example, Orange County, one of the most car-crazy counties in southern California, is one of THE most republican counties in the country....I think like close to 80% of OC voters are registered republican. In fact, the ONLY reason California gets such a bad rap in these matters is because of the crackpot legistlature in Sacramento that, unfortunately, over the last few tersm, was voted in by a slight democatic majority in the polls. The voters have moved to begin to change this thanks to, for example, Arnold's re-election to the governorship. He may not be perfect, but he's a moderate republican.....and probably way closer to the mainstream CA voter than any of the current legislature that is currently serving. And you cannot escape the fact the California will always have an influence in this country......Arnold governs over an economy in this state that STILL is something like the 7th or 8th LARGEST in the WORLD.....in fact, giving him theoretically more economic power than the vast majority of world leaders.