The O.C.

Okay....the "Queen Bitch of Interiors" has to speak his voice...... Saw the new G8 at NAIAS.....GT and a V6.....and was shockingly appalled at the interior quality on these new sedans. Those of you that have seen the production units arrive....how do THEY look? I was certainly NOT alone in my opinions....many people commented how cheap the car looked inside. The worst offenders were the controls/switches/knobs/etc.....cheap, flimsy, and certainly not substantial. GM's "black tie" controls may be overused in many GM cars, but they are far superior from a quality and refinement standpoint. Additionally, in the base $27K model, the steering wheel and gear shifter are not even covered in leather.....but a nasty plastic....? At least the seats were nice.....front and rear.....and at least the base car has an attractive cloth trim. That being said.....the cars are still extremely attractive....and I love the powertrains. But with all the strides GM has been making in interiors, this car's interior was a major disappointment to me.... Other opinions?

Hmmmm....I'd like it sooner.....but mid-'09 would be JUST about the time my lease is coming up.....! Might I be swayed by a CTS Coupe this time?

Okay....let's not forget about..... Styling..........old-school, HUGE front-and-rear overhangs..........clean, modern, upscale, with-the-times V6s..........thrashy, pushrods, 4-speeds, slow (compared to 'Bu)..........smooth, revvy, powerful, quicker, 6-speeds Rear seat room..........tight, low cushion, limited foot/leg room..........surprisingly roomy, much better use of interior space Ride/handling..........floaty, ponderous even in SS trim..........ranked as one of the best-in-segment by even the buff mags Impala is an anachronism.

I agree...... While I'd be inclined to purchase a Malibu over an Altima, I can say honestly that the Altima still has a higher-quality interior.......

I haven't seen the article yet.....but I'm guessing the Malibu LT with its softer suspension and smaller tires (compared to the LTZ) probably didn't have the same ride-and-handling compromise that C&D has raved about in the past.....slotting the sportier Altima one step ahead. Way I look at it....is that ANY GM car that can finish within the top three of such a large comparison test is only due praise....

I just saw my first two the other day.....one was an LS rental.....and the other had dealer plate frames (a retail unit...!!!!) Nice to say that, in the parking lot (rental) and on the road (retail unit) both caught my eye quite nicely!

PLUS....as opposed to a hybrid....a good diesel engine can give you other rewards IN ADDITION TO better mileage......like they can be quite pleasurable (and FUN) to drive due to the excellent torque characteristics. I had an Alfa Romeo Coupe GT in Frankfurt a few years back as a rental.....and it had "just" a 1.9L turbodiesel with, I think, "only" 150hp.....but that car was an absolute BLAST to drive and felt way faster than what I'm sure it was...... I've never been in any hybrid that was actually fun to drive....in addition to being frugal. Hell....a Prius rental I had only averaged 37mpg for the time I had the car. Sure that's good mileage....but not anywhere near what I would accept to offset the lack of fun-to-drive in the thing.

E-85 seems like a stupid, bean-counter-type alternative to what I think most people would rather prefer.....an up-to-date diesel engine. From what I've seen.....E-85 gets WORSE gas mileage than a comparable gasoline engine.....and it's tougher to find. So what's the uptick? I don't see one.....

I think it was Chrysler that showed us the "new" Town Car...... Remember the limited production "stretched" 300C from last year?

I was just in Phoenix today for two meetings....but alas, forgot about B/J....and flew in this morning and flew out this afternoon. Didn't have time to stop by.....<groan>....and I drove RIGHT BY it on the 101 fwy in Scottsdale...... Ugh....

That's not saying much if the cars are substandard......(bad for W-bodies.....good for new Malibus and Lambdas....)

And how many of those W-bodies have they had to cart off to the rental companies just to keep the plants crankin'....? Answer.... ....a TON....

I agree with you, Cory. I find this thing NASTY. Lincoln has TRULY lost it's way. I'd rather see a rebadged Flex than I would this thing...... Cadillac may not be perfect, but it's GUARANTEED they are making the Lincoln product-planners very nervous these days. I say good ridance to Lincoln....and none too soon. (I wish that I didn't have to say good ridance.)

Although......because of the RWD, I might be tempted to consider this over a $31K loaded Accord EX-L Nav.....or a Camry XLE V6.....?

I like it...! (Wierd grille though....) And....what's with that center console? Ewwwww...... Overall could be a good entry in the marketplace I guess......seems like a cheapy competitor to the Infiniti EX35....?

So.....was in Phoenix today for two meetings and was graced with an '08 Charger rental....800 miles on it....with the <groan> 2.7L V6 engine. This was a base car with cloth, no moonroof, and vinyl covering the steering wheel. I'm reminded of why I like the LX cars. Even in this (very) base trim, this car's overall package is hard to beat. The chassis is solid and tight as a drum, and even the base car goes around corners with almost NO body lean and a complete lack of float on the highway. What about the small V6? Let's just say it's a dog....BUT....if you drive the car like most normal people do, it's quiet, mannerly, and at light-to-part throttle, offers more than enough power for everyday use. Let's say if I was buying one, it would be HEMI all the way. But if I got stuck with one as a company car, I wouldn't mind this 2.7L V6. The car is slow, but it revs pretty cleanly.....and only gets growly if you hold it to redline. Not as torquey as, say, an Impala 3.5L, but believe it or not, much more mannerly at anything up to 3/4 throttle. The 4-speed auto is quick to downshift....helping to compensate for the 2.7L's lack of power. However, the powertrain would be that much better with an extra gear or two. In general, this 4-speed if fine....but sometimes offers up a harsh shift or two....not quite as mannerly as GM's 4-speed 4T65-E. The interior, to me, shows that a base car doesn't have to FEEL like a base car. I like the simple, yet durable-feeling cloth covering the seats....and the seats themselves are firm and supportive. I also like the very simple, easy-to-use HVAC and radio controls....and absolutely LOVE the "Benz" overly-large, downward-tilting turn-signal lever! LOL. The steering is quick AND responsive and gives a good feel for the road. And finally, this is the ONE Chrysler offering that still gives you better-than-expected interior finish with materials that aren't to be found on any other Chrysler product. Why? I don't know. The &#036;h&#33; in the Avenger/Sebring (and everything else for that matter) makes me want to gag. Obviously I didn't have much time in the car....but did have a mix of freeway and city driving.....and I'm reminded why I like the LX cars so much. This car feels and drives SO much better than an Impala (or any other W-car) it's not even funny. It's nice to be in a "base" car and see the basics so well nailed. Makes me long for a HEMI version! I REALLY hope Cerebus doesn't screw up the next LX cars........!

All I want to know is.....will there be some C&G drink-fest going on? Party at my room at the RenCen Marriott after the show....! LOL! Gays AND straights ALL invited......

Where are you coming from? I have the flight from hell.....LOL....I leave LAX about 1am <groan>....connect through DFW.....and arrive Detroit about 10:45am on Friday.....we'll be going most likely both days to the show.

Hey....guys I searched and searched to see if someone started a thread on this yet....but didn't find one....so if it's a repeat, I apologize..... My friend and I are going to be in Detroit from Friday, 1-18 through Monday 1-21....and I'm wondering who will be in town going to the show on Sat or Sun of that weekend? We are staying at the "Hallowed Grounds".....the RenCen Marriott..... Also....can ANYONE pull strings and get us into the GM Heritage Center?

Expertly said....!

Gimme sum of what ur smokin' dude.......are you that out of touch with the non-GM market? I see the Civic as the exact opposite. IN fact, I haven't seen one new Civic....even an Si version.....that's been tweaked out..... All the Civics I see are driven by Mr. and Mrs. Normal Joe and Jane.

How frickin' STUPID and IDIOTIC. Listen GM.....why don't you bring back "We Build Excitement" and then give Pontiac a product portfolio that actually lives up to the tagline! (Buick could stand to do the same with "Premium American Motorcars.)

I think you may be wrong, actually. In my latest Autocar (british weekly) they came to Phoenix and compared the "Premium" 4.2/300hp car to a 550i Sport 6-speed manual. Although they gave the prices in pounds, they stated in the article that the Jag and the 550 were within something like $275 of each other. (Of course add for the auto in the 550i.) So with the auto, the 550i is about $1500 more than the Jag....which is not a huge amount. They supposedly drove US-spec cars there.....the BMW given to them by BMW USA as a press car....and the Jag by Jaguar USA..... That would put the SC Jag somewhere NORTH of the 550i.....?? And that would make the (similarly-powerful) 535i less expensive than the 300hp Jag...?

Most people, even at this level, shop price/payment than they do vehicle size. Let's put this controversy at REST. If ANYONE has access to consumer cross-shop data......or Cadillac trade-in data......or Cadillac cross-shop data......bring it on. I'll bet ANYONE on here that the facts will show that CTS, when cross-shopped with Europeans, is cross-shopped more among 3-series, C-class, and A4 as opposed to 5-series, E-Class, or A6.

LORD I've never seen such spin in all my life.....! OMG....do you work for GM PR?