The O.C.

Ahhh yes.....the Atom.....and the Noble.....that was the other car. But what British "race car?" I'm trying to remember?

And you are just spinning away GM's lack of foresight in the marketplace. There were signs EVERYWHERE. There was no explicable reason why GM should invest SO much money into the GM-10 program without even considering sedans. Taurus debuted two years EARLIER than the GM-10 coupes.....and was met with instant success. It took GM way too long to come to the market with competition.....and then that competition was already dated when it was introduced. (Not to mention the fact that Honda, Toyota, et al, were gaining huge strength in the mid-80's in compact and midsize sedans.......) BTW....your own GM dealers even knew better. I can't tell you how many times I had to endure the rant of a Buick dealer as to why GM went to all that effort to give them a Regal Coupe.....instead of a Sedan......

Take the f*cking chip off your shoulder. I won't change my post. You don't like the word? Tough.....so consider it "many" of us....or "some" of us....whatever tickles your tonsils.....

Please.....I invite you to explain how any of my post is not an accurate view of the current situation GM is facing......"bleak" outlook or not......

Everyone misses my point.....that being, it doesn't matter how "strong" mid-size coupes were in the market back then.....because the trend shifted to sedans. That's something Ford was able to foresee....and GM didn't....and much damage was done as a result.

Jean Jennings......

Let's look at the situation....... * Many of us agree that GM cannot fully support 8 brands from a sales and marketing standpoint....at least at a level competitive with what Toyota and others can support their brands. * Most of us agree that GM can't simply "get rid" of 2, 3, or 4 brands and the dealerships that go along with them......even if many of us have the opinion that's just what GM should do..... * Even with the brands they do have, GM is less-than-competitive with a good number of the products they have in the current lineup. * GM is struggling to regain lost ground. Other manufacturers have no where to go but up. Even though I honestly think GM will NOT go under, or go bankrupt, or go out of business......this is like the "Kobiashi Maru"......a "no-win" scenario. We are going to see weak GM dealers die off the vine......and we'll see GM market-share continue to plummet until it hits a (for lack of a better word) a more appropriate "saturation" point. What will that point be? I don't know....but I'd guess somewhere in the mid-teens. I don't see any other way around it. They'll definitely survive.....but they won't be the biggest.....or the strongest......

Last Saturday at "Cars & Coffee" when I met AAS....... Jaguar XF SV8 BMW M3 (2) Audi R8 Lexus LS-F (2) Z06 (like 8 of 'em) Ford GT (7 or 8 of them) Mustang GT500 (3) Vector (2) Lotus Esprit (2 old ones, like Bond's, 1 later S4) There were a gazillion Ferraris, Lambos, and Porsches. Along with plenty of older hot rods and muscle cars including a few old Camaros. Plus, lots of old MINIs, Triumphs....all in like-new or restored condition. And there were some really pretty Jaguar old XK-Es....a couple of convertibles, and I think there was a coupe too. AAS.....if I've missed something, let me know......

That's why Canada's gonna become our 51st state...... (And you'll still only be the 2nd-largest state in the union.....)

In my experience working for them, the Japanese are FAR less arrogant than the Koreans. It's a totally different business culture.

Start looking for another job. The Koreans will grind you into the ground.....just like they did at Kia. There is no employee motivation or morale with them. It's all about threatening you with your job. That's how they like to motivate you. The only reason so many people in various positions still work for Kia (and Hyundai) is that they do pay extremely well. When I went from GM to Kia, I got a HUGE pay increase for doing basically the same job. I lasted 11 months...not even a year. I quit because it was such a bad work environment.

My point is.....GM shouldn't make a decision to keep the minivans around in their current form (totally uncompetitive in the marketplace) simply based upon their performance in the Canadian market.....IMHO, that is why we now have the Lambdas. And anyone on here that TRIES to spin away the fact that the original Explorer was a total game-changer for Ford is only fooling themselves. It's an opportunity that GM did not foresee. That's the point. They continue their missed opportuntites to this day......

I think the original post was simply to invite discussion on an interesting, yet sensitive topic. It's not likely GM will ever move.....but it's interesting to contemplate. I never thougth Buick would leave Flint...... VW Group is moving from Auburn Hills to D.C....... Boeing moved from Seattle to Chicago......

How many 2-door SUVs or CUVs are on the market now? FORD invented the 4-door "family" SUV with the Explorer. GM missed this opportunity in the marketplace.....there is no mistake in that. GM minivan sales in Canada basically mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Canada's auto industry is what FRACTION the size of the USA's....? Taurus was a sales leader up until they "gave up" on the car and let it slide into oblivion. Doesn't change the fact that the best-selling car today is a 4-door sedan....and way back in 1988, GM decided to introduce three coupes......(WTF????)

I wouldn't have thought of YOU as a "BMW man!"

It worked for Toyota....for right or for wrong..... 'Could've worked for GM.....

Well, well, well....... This may just very well be my next car when the CTS lease is up.....(and the timing will be perfect!) I think I'm gonna hate the interior in this car......but damn, outside, that is one HOT looking car. I can't find a bad line on it....or anything to complain about. And I love the concave shape of the rear decklid..... Is it just me, or do the wheels look conspiculously like the new Challenger SRT-8's...?

It's Korean arrogance.....make no buts about it.......I worked for Kia for 11 months and trust me....no one is more arrogant than they are.....even the Germans I'd wager a guess....!

You know it does bring up a good point...... What's worse? The Pop Culture being developed by the coasts? Or all the people here and in between that buy into it.....? I don't think "Pop Culture" in and of itself is bad. I am old enough to remember a time when there were no Reality Shows....no Britney Spears....no Paris Hilton....and no <gasp> internet (which only tends to exasperate it.) When I was growing up in the 70's-80's.....we had Pop Culture, but it was way more wholesome (re...."Brady Bunch for one example.....LOL)

How are people gonna peak in and watch if you tint the windows?

To do it, though (and I'm not saying they would or should) they'd have to move ALL OF IT. Remember Ford tried it with L/M and it was a dismal failure. Dearborn never properly supported the gestation of the Irvine group. Although the Irvine group did give us the Lincoln LS, most feedback from Irvine ultimately fell on deaf ears in Dearborn. (As a friend of mine that worked there/and still works for FoMoCo tells me first-hand.)

Well, you should consider it. All I can say about the people is.....don't pre-judge us. Ironically, since moving to SoCal, I've made more and better true friends than I've EVER had anywhere else in my life. Once again....it's the media that shows you the "fringe".....like the Britney Spears and Paris Hiltons. Yeah, in many places here you can find tons of "plastic" people.....but you know....you will find those people ANYWHERE. In a funny way, it's one reason I love to go up to L.A. and hit the bars and clubs. It's like entertainment! LOL (And plastic/snobby people aside.....there are alot of great places to go here to do things, eat, culture, plays, entertainment, etc., etc.) BUT I thought you said you were a "small-town" guy?

Cool....!!! Over the years, I've really grown to like Phoenix alot more. Over the last 10-20 years that I've been visiting PHX, it seems like the city has really "grown up." (Of course the population has exploded...it's like the 5th largest city in the U.S. now just behind Houston.) PHX used to be just like a big retirement community in the desert. Now, it's a major metropolitan area with a growing wealth of culture and class. I especially like the Tempe, Scottsdale, and Paradise Valley areas. Plus I LOVE the desert geography/terrain there. It's really a beautiful area......(if getting a bit congested, with worse smog than L.A.) I don't mind the heat in the summer their, either.....makes summer nights warm and sultry.

LOL There is one in North Hollywood. You never hear much about it though.....do you.....?

Bless you we agree on something........ Did you hear that there is a village in Texas that is missing it's idiot? Well, Germany will be cool. I myself wouldn't mind spending some time overseas. It's just not in my cards right now. One of my best friends is from England, and has been here for about 20 years. Now he's the biggest USA-lover.....but even his is totally disgusted with how this country is progressing. I think if we don't get our hands around this PC crap, we'll be in real trouble. Everyone's afraid to do anything here. Our children are out of control. And heaven forbid you spank your unruly child in the grocery store. You do, and someone might try to get you arrested and your kids taken away from you. (Not to change the thread.....)