The O.C.

I know....makes you wonder. My problem is that I'm so trustworthy.....at times it's to a fault.....and that can get me in trouble. But dammit....I have a hard time not believing someone until they give me a reason to not believe them....... For your situation, I'd say you almost have to look at it from the standpoint.....what's in the past is in the past. Until she gives you a reason not to trust her, move forward with all your heart and trust....just make sure you keep a smart head about it.....

I know.....there's something to be said for that too.......

Did she tell you she cheated on YOU.....or cheated in general before you???

I admitted I didn't have current fleet numbers. I was responding to a generalized statement that "....the 300 is faltering badly....." based upon the sales numbers reported in this thread. I was simply pointing out these sales numbers compared to Buick, a close competitior (theoretically.) Same could be said for Buick....."faltering badly."

I know....I know.... I'm just trying to not "shackle" him down too much.....if I give him permission to borrow my car to go run around or whatever, I'm not necessarily going to grill him about where he went in it.... ....but I just don't see why he wouldn't mention it to me. Only makes me seem like there's something to hide is all. I mean....for goodness sakes....he just moved down here.....doesn't really know anyone.....I think he'd be excited to tell me he connected with a friend of his that lives close.....??????

Yeah....I think so too. Thanks bud. You know it's funny.....everything has been SO good (as good as it can be I guess) since the beginning.....yet....I'm had this cautious wonder in my brain about the whole thing....and that's why I originally started this thread. All my friends locally here have been telling me how bad of an idea this is.....that they don't trust him, etc.....but I didn't want to "damn" him before giving him a chance. That's why I thought you guys, not really knowing me, could give me good third-party advice (which you all have.) We'll see how it goes......he went into the bedroom a bit ago and closed the doors......we'll see what happens when he gets done sulking......

OK.....so new update. I need to know if I'm being overly-sensative, or if I have a legitimate concern....... On Wednesday, my bf around 9:30 said he wanted to go "grab some food" and go for a quick drive. He likes to get out on his own from time-to-time and explore, so I didn't think too much of it. I'm very aware that we both need our "alone time." I did think it was wierd that he took a shower, got cleaned up, put on cologne, etc.....but figured "whatever." He was gone that evening for around 2 hours.....and was in a chipper mood when he got home around 11:30 at night. Well, today....I was moving the A4 over to wash it in the driveway (which he drove that night) and see in the nav system that is most recent destination was this address in Newport Beach that was a residential apartment/condo address (I checked it out on mapquest and google-earth.) I confronted him about it this afternoon.....and he said it was his friend's house that lives down here. He acted like it was "no big deal" and that he just "stopped by to say hi." I was all like....."why the secret?" Why wouldn't he tell me about it, even in casual conversation? Like....."honey, I stopped by and saw my friend in Newport who I haven't seen in a long time" or....why wouldn't he tell me when he was going out that he was going to go "hang out with his friend?" He was all like....."do I have to tell you everything I do?" I'm like "no".....but we are bfs....and we live together.....so why would it be a big secret that you are going to go hang out with a friend? Not to mention the fact that it's not a friend he's mentioned before that lives so close in Newport Beach, etc..... My hair is standing straight up on the back of my neck......I'm thinking the worst......but know I won't get him to admit to "the worst." What do you guys think? Am I being too nosy here, or would you be just as suspicious given the circumstances?

Numbers are numbers. 300 sells more cars than LaCrosse and Lucerne combined. Care to compare fleet numbers for the three models? I don't think you'd want to......sorry.....

Well, I think since none of us will ever be able to agree on what "class-leading" means.....I'd have to revert to sales numbers....and yes....the Camry is undoubtably "class-leading." No other midsize sedan sells more....

Ironically.....on price.....a comparably-equipped 328i sedan is almost dead spot-on for what my CTS was.......around $41K - $42K......faster and sportier too..... But yes, the CTS is a bit bigger......

When were you last in one? When I had the 330Ci and convertible, even with "only" 225hp, they were both SO much fun to drive! They weren't rocketships, but they were quick and peppy.....but they just felt so sporty and fun-to-drive regardless of the engine. I can't imagine how awesome the 300hp 335i would be......even without going all the way to the M3.......

I love the CTS....but truly thought that with the 18-inch "Sport" package and 6-speed manual, that it would be much sportier than it really is. (I didn't drive one before ordering/buying mine.) The 3-series and A4 are MUCH sportier in feel and driving.....and that suits me better. The CTS is a nice cruiser though, with a soft ride.....but hardly what I'd call a "sport sedan."

We really aren't as far off as our friendly bantering would lead either of us to think....... One reason I did get the '07 CTS was just because I wanted something a bit different......when it seems everyone here has a 3-series, A4, or C-class. On second thought now, though, I wish I would have gotten the 3-series or A4 because experience has shown me that, FOR ME, they both are superior vehicles (not that I don't still like the CTS in its own ways though.) That's what I meant about not minding being "common" as long as the product is worth it......

OK....you said "what a car needs to gain everyone's approval....." But I think you meant "what a car needs to gain a certain individual's approval....." Right?

Well, interesting to see Chrysler sold more 300s in March than Buick did LaCrosse AND Lucerne combined......

But that's the whole thing......I don't think you could ever design a car to gain "everyone's" approval (or even a majority approval)......if companies were able to do that, there wouldn't be the fierce debate and differing enthusiasm that we all DO have on here.... Camry sells more midsize sedans than ANYONE....and has for many years.......but you wouldn't ever buy one.....nor would I....nor would many people on here...... Same thing goes for pickups......combined Silverado/Sierra sales provide the best-selling product in the country......but I would never buy a pickup....any pickup.....because I don't need one....and they don't appeal to me.....

I agree on the grill....the one they went with is better...... This car will be interesting to follow. In no WAY will it ever make Hyundai a luxury-pretender......and no one will ever trade their BMWs or Mercedes-Benzs for the Genesis. But it will provide an attractive alternative in the marketplace....in that late-$20's to mid-30's price-range. I wonder where the true buyers will come from? Open-minded domestic consumers looking for something a bit different? Asian-car consumers looking for RWD? I bet you might get some cross-shopping from people looking for a loaded Accord EX-L V6.....and stumbling upon a RWD, V8 powered Hyundai with a killer warranty.....

OK....time for a group hug with you, me, and 'Bloke..... Seriously.....this has been an incredible thread.....it really brings out lots of emotions, feelings, rationalizations, hatred, love, all these things when people discuss something so near-and-dear to their hearts......

First of all.....no denying that GM made it relatively easy for Toyota. But if it was all that easy, it woudn't be just Toyota (and maybe Honda to a lesser extent) showing such dominence in the marketplace. There are certain reasons it's Toyota......and not Mitsubishi.....or even Nissan.....there's a certain genius to that company.....whether any of us like it or not.

Not trying to bag on you bud.....but your comment here, including where you admit an "affinity for certain European cars" doesn't sound like the kind of industry enthusiast 'Bloke iand myself are trying to portray ourselves...... You "have yet to be impressed by anything from Japan"......and you "despise Toyota for their effect on the industry as a whole." You are WAY more focused in your enthusiasm......and that's okay......there are many of us on here that are on way different levels as far as our enthusiasm for the industry and how far that reaches....

I know you mean well.....but before any of us go off with generalizations, let's get someone on here that has access or knows where to get them to get us actual retail-vs-fleet percentages so we can really compare how the two companys are doing today....... I think you'll see GM hasn't cut back as much as you think.....and Toyota hasn't increased it as much as you think....... Evok used to be able to get me this info....I'll try to contact him and see if he has updated fleet-vs-retail numbers......

Sales numbers? I know they fleet Avalon some....but let's look at retail sales numbers....shall we? (Unfortunately I don't have recent ones handy....perhaps you do.) As far as acceleration times? Let's look again at apples-to-apples....two buff rags, each with using their own same testing procedures used for BOTH cars: C&D (0-60, 1/4 miles, test mpg) Lucerne CXS (3-06) 6.9/15.3/17mpg Avalon Touring (7-05) 6.0/14.6/22mpg MT (0-60, 1/4 mile......both from 1-06 COTY test) Lucerne CXS 7.5/15.7 Avalon 6.1/14.8 So....to me....it looks like Avalon's times were pretty consistent between both mags. Perhaps C&D got a "stronger" Lucerne somehow? Either way, both mags posted considerably quicker times for the V6 Avalon even over the faster Lucerne V8 that C&D had....... And to me.....even though I find Lucerne still more attractive than Avalon, I don't think there's anything on it that truly says "Buick" (fake portholes don't count.) In fact, as many have said on here before, it has more than a hint of Passat/Phaeton in the rear.......a good-looking car? YES.....but not necessarily any more "Buick" than the Avalon is "Toyota."

Thank you. That was simply my point. To the thread: My thing overall is....I don't have anything necessarily against Toyota. In reality, there's probably not one Toyota I'd buy over any of the other choices in the marketplace....however, I am intriqued by many of their product decisions. I am no Prius fan at all.....and have even had one for a day to drive and was not that impressed....especially with my average of "only" 37mpg. However, I applaud the incredible marketing genius Toyota has shown with the whole "Hybrid" thing. Truly amazing in the industry. Bring out a product that, in reality, doesn't pay for itself unless you're in it for the really long run....and have people buy it anyways....primarily for the statement it makes. And make the rest of the industry follow after you like a dog with it's tail between it's knees...... I applaud any car (Camry) that can show the dominance in the midsize sedan segment that Camry has for as many years as it has......ugly, boring appliance....or not.... I applaud the audaciousness of the Tundra/Sequoia styling....and the incredible power and efficiency of it's I-Force 5.7L V8......(even if I wouldn't see myself ever getting one of them.....) I applaud Lexus.....and how they are now perceived as a top-tier luxury brand.....in, what, less-than 20 years? What Toyota has done in this country has been amazing from a marketing, sales, and image standpoint......and they've done it in a relatively short amount of time when you think about how long the domestics have been around. So.....they are not my cup of tea.....but I have nothing inherently against them.....I see them as innovative marketers that have simply taken advantage of every opportunity our domestic Big3 (and our government, and theirs, perhaps) have given them.....and they've capitalized on that.

OK....misspoken..... Dented, crashed, pieces falling off.....perhaps "rusted" was the wrong word. It's sad.....I'd love to see more late-70's to late-80's GM products in better shape.....but I just don't......