The O.C.

Probably they don't use them overseas because, for Europe, a 1.8L is already relatively large for a petrol L4......bigger Ecotecs' increased performance probably wouldn't justify the mpg and CO2 increases..... Also, bringing over the VXR powertrain would probably have been too cost-prohibitive for certification purposes....considering they probably wouldn't have sold enough of them.

Griff....there IS NO valid comparison, as you say, unless you can provide actual rental/fleet percentages for those cars. I don't have them or I would. Last time I checked, a year or so ago, Grand Prix, for example, was running over 75% rental/fleet....even the 500 at that time wasn't anywhere near that. Nothing in the Pontiac lineup even dictates a hint towards "performance" or "excitement" except G8 and maybe Solstice Targa (because there's no comparable Saturn.) Everything else either can be had at a similar division, or offers just as much performance as the respective Pontiac (re...Malibu LTZ V6 and G6 GXP.....and Solstice versus SKY.)

That's ridiculous FOG.....they are three separate brands that simply share a distribution channel. Three brands are still going to need three different types of marketing and advertising support in order to build upon or repair brand image and perception. How in the hell do you think GM can promote BPG as "one brand" when their products and target markets are so diverse???

Saw my first 1-Series on the road today.......128i Convertible in what was a VERY attractive beige-gold-tan color with a black top. The car really, really looked adorable on the road.....cute n' classy!

They are using what they have available to them.....and the 1.8L is the best bet for right now. The 2.2L and 2.4L Ecotecs aren't available in the European Astra.....and it's not feasible to just "ship some over there" to install in the U.S.-bound Astras.....

I value the time and effort you put into your above post. But unfortunately NONE of that matters one iota if GM doesn't have, or won't spend, the significant dollars required to support an appropriate marketing and advertising effort. Remember, even with a utopian product lineup, GM still has to repair the HUGE rift in consumer perception of the Pontiac brand....which is not all that positive at this juncture. That's the whole gist behind DeLorenzo's rant.....

What is the current fleet/rental percentage for G6 and Grand Prix? I think you'll find it's astonomical.......G6 "outselling" Malibu thanks to a hefty influx of fleet/rental units certainly does not indicate true consumer appeal.

There's not that much wrong with Cobalt that a significantly better interior wouldn't fix....! Even the "new" Focus' interior is seemingly light-years ahead in style, design, and material fit-and-finish (and it's still not class-leading IMHO.) Little Cobalt Sport models that are running around SoCal as rentals have some pretty decent eye-appeal......and there's never been anything wrong with the Ecotec engines.....it's just it's bottom-of-the-barrel interior that kills it (for me....)

Oh I know.....and I'm not knocking them AT ALL.....! I've driven far too many of them to know that they are excellently-engineered vehicles. I'm just saying.....when I'm writing the check, and the decision gets emotional......I'm drawn more to cars of European design, or an excellent domestic like a CTS, etc. For example....Civic Si coupe.....or VW GTI 3-door? I like the Si....and know it's gotten great reviews....and most likely it will be more reliable than the German VW. But when it gets down to it, I see myself in the GTI way better....not for any dislike of the Civic in particular....sometimes you can't fully explain it.

It's funny.....how strong can Saturn be when..... .....Chevy gets a better-looking Lambda (Traverse).......Malibu upstages the AURA in exterior design and interior style.........and you can get a Chevy Cobalt (Turbo) SS with 260hp for the price of a loaded 138hp Astra.......?

I like the Accord....alot. Mostly because it IS unique, and not what I'd call "Japanese Generic." I think it looks much more muscular and aggressive than the Camry. The interior does have button-itis.....but I think it's put together very well, with nice materials, color-selections, and trim (woodgrain versus silver-metallic.) I've seen a few coupes around here and they look good on the road.

"M1 Concept"......hahahaha......this thread got me...... I was expecting a spiced-up 1-Series coupe.......(which would still me nice...)

Not bad.....I've always thought I'd rather pay just a bit more for something German/European (VW, Volvo, SAAB, Audi etc.) than for something (generic) Japanese.......there's no question I'd get this before the V6 RAV4 (although that's a rocket-ship) or V6 Outlander, etc., and I'd get this over a Murano also in a heartbeat (although I think the Murano is bigger.) I'd get this over a Rogue too....

I'm not sure about other states....maybe it's a CA thing....but I seem to remember reading that 91 is pretty comparable to 93....it's something about the mix.....what they put in the gas here. But from what I understand, 91 is used as the accepted octane rating for "premium" gas......so if a manufacturer's car requires "premium".....that manufacturer has based their recommendation on 91-octane.

Really? Where do you live?

You really can't logically lump MINI into this segment/discussion. MINI is a premium product, regardless of it's size. The others aren't. I've been impressed with the Fit's packaging and interior design/quality....and the new one looks to be quite a bit more attractive. In many ways, the Fit is a modern interpretation of the original Honda ideal.....small, efficient, smartly-designed. And it's a decent runner with the stick-shift. The Yaris, is....okay I guess. I actually think the 3-door is cheeky-cute. I'm not a fan of the centrally-located IP, but the interior seems to be of greater quality than what we've seen in the GMDAT products.....with hard, yet low-sheen plastics and decent-feeling controls. IMHO, the new Aveo has a good-looking interior that just feels/seems way too cheap in too many ways. If the Fiesta comes to market even close to the style/design inside-and-outside that the 4-door Verve concept showcased, I think it'll be a winner. I'm not excited about the Versa, but damn it IS big for the segment.....I guess that's it's calling-card. Rio/Accent offer a driving experience that's far from exciting or sporty. However, a recent Accent 4-door rental showed it to be extremely competent as very-basic transportation. The interior and appointments also seemed again a step above the GMDAT products (though hardly luxurious.) My Accent had a very attractive light-grey interior complemented by a two-tone grey/black color scheme that really broke up the monotonous of a grey interior. Isn't my favorite, but certainly didn't feel like a $h!-box...which was what I totally expected it to feel like.

With enough advance planning (and foresight) GM could have brought the Corsa over here (or better, built it somewhere here) and for a competitive price. They are just now importing the Astra, and even though they don't build it here, it is priced pretty reasonably for it's segment......there's no reason the same couldn't have happened with the Corsa. Nothing's saying it would have to be a "premium" subcompact.....

(Edit: I put this in April by mistake....) Yesterday, the bf and I were driving along Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills/Bel Air, and I saw one of the new Equinox Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles!!!!! I was so excited I almost drove off the road.....LOL. The bf was wondering what all the "fuss" was about. I know how rare these are......so I was excited to see it. Then, I had to explain it all to him <ugh>......he's into cars, but not as in-depth as many of us on here.....

My whole thing is.....I've got tremendous respect for the quality, engineering, and design of most Japanese/Asian products. It's just that not very many of them, at all, seem to get me excited if I were actually gonna write the check. I'm way more emotionally-attracted to European, or even domestic, cars......

Agreed....in a BIG way..... And yeah....the inline 6s wouldn't work for packaging reasons among other things......but damn, what a great 6cyl engine, huh?

I've driven a hell of a lot of other manufacturer's V8 engines......and the BMW V8 is one of my absolute favorites. Revvy, yet torquey, and incredibly smooth and silent. GM's smallblock is great....but even the much-vaunted LS-variants can't match the bimmer V8 for luxury applications....it's simply way more mannerly.

Waiting for the final "OK" to come back from my background check, etc.....which I don't have a reason to fear. I've already leased out my condo.....so that's good news!

Thanks. Lame though. How often are you actually going to need to fold down the passenger seat? I know it's kinda a nice feature.....but 95% of the time, it's not gonna be folded down....and you have a passenger seat that doesn't match the driver seat..... The MKS looked better this time at ground level (not up higher on a turn-table.) You are right it does still look tall.....but somehow they've masked it better than they did with the Taurus/Sable/500/Montego IMHO. I couldn't imagine picking the MKS over a CTS.....but I have to admit it's a bitchin' competitor to the STS at a way lower price (as long as you don't mind FWD.)

Bull crap FOG..... Consumer tastes migrated towards more european and japanese design and engineering (in smaller cars) a LONG time ago.....GM refused to see it and is only NOW reacting....I've been saying for the last 10 years OR MORE that GM should bring over/build here cars like the Corsa and Astra.....and we only now get the Astra.....and instead of the sharp little Corsa, we have the Aveo....?? Ford perhaps saw it best when they sold the original Focus over here....and it was a big success. (Why they didn't follow that up with the next gen Focus' is a whole 'nuther issue....) Ford is bringing over the Fiesta....and even that took way too long to bring to fruition. If the Hondas and Toyotas of the world could foresee the increasing popularity of B-segment cars, why couldn't our own GM?

Yesterday, the bf and I were driving along Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills/Bel Air, and I saw one of the new Equinox Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles!!!!! I was so excited I almost drove off the road.....LOL. The bf was wondering what all the "fuss" was about. I know how rare these are......so I was excited to see it. Then, I had to explain it all to him <ugh>......he's into cars, but not as in-depth as many of us on here.....