The O.C.

Not to me. There's something about the sheen to the plastics, the sturdiness of things like the glovebox door....the action and appearance of the switchgear (especially the HVAC and stereo controls)......the supportiveness of the seats.....and the overall integration of the various design elements from the door panels to the instrument panel to the dashboard to the center console, ets.....the color coordination of trim pieces in different colors (as in the beige option in the Yaris....) To me, even Yaris is upscale compared to Cobalt.....in fact, there's nothing on the market that doesn't beat Cobalt in terms of overall design and fit-an-finish.....EVEN the barebones Rio and Accent Koreans.....

hell....my paycheck now again is based upon GM's success in the marketplace. I'm now working for a Cadillac store. You know what? Even at Cadillac, there are just two....TWO cars.....that hold any interest in the marketplace.....the CTS...and the short-wheelbase Escalade. Where's our new STS? Or our new DTS replacement? How about a truly competitive XLR that draws customers like an SL Benz does? I have high hopes for the BRX.....as a great competitior to the RX.....but how long will we wait for that product too? It's same-ole....same-ole for GM my friend....and that's not good.....

I've been in plenty. In fact, the Aveo has a much-better screwed together interior than Cobalt. Yaris is STILL light-years ahead of Cobalt. I haven't been in a more depressing compact (or subcompact) since the original Kia Sephia....(and I think even THAT car was better assembled than Cobalt.) You know my feelings about this car....I'll debate you all day long....but you know what you'll get with me. The Cobalt is absolute junk inside......and that's even compared to the Koreans.....

Problem is, my friend, the market doesn't agree with you. Your affection for the Impala is notable....but it's the wrong car, at the wrong time, for a GM that's trying to reverse a disasterous market share slide. It's not just about product (as many would have you think) it's also, unfortunately, about perception, image, perceived quality, and market acceptance. Those are things the Impala LACKS in spades. That's the reality. Regardless of the banter you or I or anyone else on here might get into. The real question is....WHAT will it take for GM to regain it's market dominance? I'll tell you...it's not with cars like the Impala. We can all sit here for days upon days arguing the merits of 6- or 7- or 8-speed automatic transmissions.......or in-dash navigation systems......or multi-valve engines......or <insert favorite technology here>.......but the fact of the matter is......the longer GM lags behind the competition in bringing these supposedly accepted and sought-after technologies to the market, along with their unispiring designs (like Impala).....the further their market share will fall.

Yeah....no sunroof.....on the really sporty XR 3-door.....once again, GM at it's bone-headed best......and ur right....it would be a deal breaker for me too. Even CARBIZ said the Cobalt interior is crap.....and in my opinion, that's being nice. GM simply doesn't know how to sweat the details. I really do think their executives live in a Detroit-based vacuum. How they managed to make the CTS so nice is beyond me......

Yeah....but lord it seems like they do that with everything!!!!!!! (OnStar an obvious exception.)

And compare and contrast the Cobalt interior with the Astra! I get it that the Astra's center stack is confusing, but lord the materials and fits seem so much better! I don't think the Yaris is that bad inside......I still think it's better than the Cobalt. Although I HATE the center-mounted instruments.....

Oh agreed.....I just meant that it looks put together better. Another thing....take a close look at the Traverse's interior.....(I was inside one at the IE auto show).....in styling it mimics the Malibu's interior....but the fits and finishes are far greater. The Traverse, of course, shares it's interior hard points and switchgear with the other Lambdas.....which are damn near class-leading. The center stack, in particular, is finished alot better than Malibus....lacking the excessive cutlines and contrasting materials that Malibu suffers from.

You are 100% correct about that. Interesting, eh? Kinda makes you think.....

Yeah....LOL....forgot about all that.....I've experienced similar things at auto shows that I helped to set up for GM and other manufacturers I worked for. I also ran into this when working a convention for my last company. Specifically I can speak to the "electrical union man" having to plug in the convention booth lights for me.......<ugh> It's just like my chair example. Total bull&#036;h&#33;. NOW....if I needed something technical done with the electrical setup, or something fixed, or whatever, then fine...it makes total sense to have the electrical guy do it....because that's his expertise...not mine. But don't make me stand around and wait for someone to come "move chairs" for me or "plug in my booth lights." It's that crap that really makes unions look so overwhelmingly assinine.

Oh crist...it's just my opinion..... I just happen to be really interested in urban planning and architecture.....one of my hobbies aside from cars. The RenCen to me holds onto an architectural "dead" period of the 70's (when it was built) that never captured the romanticism of the styles of the past (like many of the art deco buildings STILL in and around Detroit, albeit in a state of disrepair) nor did it even try to attempt to recapture that same spirit. Nor, does it share the same sort of architectural flair that we saw start to crop up in the mid- to-late 80's into the 2000s......just look at the skylines of some of the more modern cities today (many of them in Asia) to see how trends have really matured...... Atlanta's a great one to contrast and compare. You've got the RenCen's sister hotel (without the four surrounding office buildings like the RenCen has) located downtown, built in the same time period as the RenCen.....and then all around it, moving from downtown to midtown, you have many highrises built in the decades that followed that really showcase a unique combination of glass, concrete, and steel....and they all have their own signiature details that make them interesting to study.....

Yeah.....but Ranger is just a drop-in-the-bucket in Ford's overall product portfolio. We're talking about Chevrolet's supposedly "flagship" (more- or-less) sedan......

I think this is a great point that I totally forgot about......the upcoming new Taurus. I know we've all only seen a picture, and other details are scarce.....but damn from just that picture I saw, it's going to look like quite a nice vehicle. And Chevy will soldier on into 2012 (apparently, supposedly) with the same ole' Impala..... Funny because, although I'm not overly excited about it either, the current D-platform Taurus is a FAR superior car to today's Impala in terms of interior proportions, interior design, fit, and finish, seating comfort, and even though I find the styling bland, it at least has decent proportions.....plus it finally has a great powertrain that simply trumps the Impala so easily, it's not even funny.....

On the column shift....you may be right....but gee, GM is the only remaining survivor that believes in that configuration.......(Don't bring up the Fox platform mates....they've been around since the age of dawn.) Plus, it could be argued that one of the main reasons anyone would buy an Impala like that is.....simply....it's what the dealer had in inventory? How "harsh" is the ride in the excellent new Malibu? It's not. What makes you think that having a "modern" platform that doesn't float or wallow, and has appropriate shock, spring, and damping rates all of a sudden dictates a "harsh" ride? It doesn't....

OK....so GM has a nice facade on the front. I don't get why so many people seem to think this complex is some kind of architectural wonder??? To me, it looks bland, old, boring, and totally lacking ingenuity in design. And inside? It's even worse...... I guess that's just MHO.....

Sounds great to me.....! <sarcasm dripping> I guess that's why slightly-used, 2- to 3-year old Taurus' are such sought-after and valuable automobiles......

We'll never see a cure to cancer or a cure to HIV......what would the big drug companies EVER do without patients to medicate.....?

There is absolutely NOTHING "balanced" about the UAW. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say.....unions in and of themselves aren't bad. I truly believe the United Auto Workers is a travesty all itself. I think the UAW has done more by it's very self to add to the huge anti-union sentiment in this country today than any other organization.....

Gee....is it ANY wonder why they haven't been able to organize the transplants?

OK I may be a bit late in the game here on this thread, but I'll take the bait. The sense of entitlement that the UAW projects is absurd and totally undeserved. Guess what? I, as a so-called "white collar worker" at GM couldn't move desk chairs from offices into a conference room.....instead, I had to stand around, wait for 45 minutes for some UAW worker to come up, and do it for me. I decided that was asinine and moved the chairs myself. My boss "wrote me up" and the UAW workers that came up to do it bitched me out. I'll tell you what.....I have NO respect for your basic UAW member. Sorry. Don't. Won't ever will. I know that not all union workers are unproductive, whiny, uneducated assholes (because we have some good guys here on this site).......but, sorry, the vast majority I've ever had dealings with....WERE.... It's not about what the assembly line job is about....or how tough it is....or what it takes to perform it.....it's the UAW/union attitude, mentality, and sense of entitlement that has to be killed. I'm sorry to be so blunt....but I had many really bad experiences with UAW assholes during my 11-year "white collar" tenure at GM.....and it's tainted my attitude about it all pretty badly.....

Ugh.....we'll be left with the same nasty proportions, front- and-rear overhangs, huge trunk, but confining back seat room, pushrods, 4-speeds. and a wonderful rental-queen image....I bet they'll even leave the bench seat and column shifter in it.....

Phillips in Laguna Hills was a Mazda-Buick-Pontiac store.....(yeah....wierd combo.) They just dropped Buick and Pontiac and are now an exclusive Mazda store! I have a feeling GM probably pressured them.....sure they wanted Buick and Pontiac away from there......but damn it's surprising the dealer agreed to lose all that service business to just rely on Mazda..... Either GM paid them a &#036;h&#33;load of money to re-align the brands with GMC somewhere near......or it's a more scary testament to the strength (or lack thereof) of those GM brands here in southern Orange County these days......<ugh> To date....I haven't seen a replacement for Buick and/or Pontiac in south O.C......

My parents have a 2000 Regal GS SC.....and my dad has always complained about the mileage....but then again he has a '99 Vette 6-speed that he drives (the Regal is a 3rd car for them) and he doesn't really get that much better mileage in the Regal....and feels he should since the Vette has ~ 350hp..... I think they get around the low-20's for the GS from what he's said. That's about what he gets with the Vette. I will say this.....their car has like 150K miles on it....and that powertrain is FLAWLESS. I don't know that they've EVER had a problem with the engine OR transmission. The REST of the car, however, is a travesty.......and my Dad is Mr. Anal when it comes to taking care of and cleaning cars. The Regal has really loosened up so dramatically......plastic pieces don't stay on, knobs and switches fall off or don't work......the suspension creaks and groans so much it's embarassing. The overall powertrain reliability of their car has been steller......but after 100K miles, you can tell that these cars were built to a price when it comes to non-powertrain-related issues......I really think that's where the domestics get a bad rap. They simply don't do well after 80K miles or so.......(again...powertrains aside.)

I drove a Prius for about 200miles one day as a rental in and around L.A.......and I didn't "hate" it.....but also didn't "get" it either. It was a perfectly acceptable, comfortable, car to drive with no major faults......but so is any other number of compact-to-midsize cars. BUT....I just didn't get the big attraction to the car. I dutifully topped it off when I picked it up, then topped it off when I returned it.....and I averaged, over 200+ miles in mixed L.A. traffic, "just" 37mpg. I drove the car like I would any of my others......not "trying" to get the "maximum" mileage.....so I'd have a consistent comparison. To me, when I drive the A4 2.0T in similar conditions, I average 25-26mpg. Now I know the Audi is more expensive, and does require 91-octane gas.....but lord....I'd rather take the Audi and the 25-26mpg.....to get a car that is FAR quicker.....FAR more luxurious......and actually offer a very attractive design. To me, the Prius wierd interior and wierd exterior (neither that caused any problems....but didn't make me proud to drive it either) and the somewhat jerkiness of the drivetrain made me more convinced that Hybrids are not for me. If we were talking mileage in the 50's- to 60's....in REALISTIC driving conditions......then I might rethink my assessment.... I can understand why Prius drivers are such dolts. It takes a very unique mindset to actually buy and live with one of these things........

Well, they had it available with the DI V6 all during '08.....????