The O.C.

What's all about this latest "fad" about winter tires in snowy climates? I lived in MI for 7 years....and Philadelphia for 2 years.....and drove all manner of cars (some RWD, some FWD).....and NEVER had a problem! Usually the cities are pretty prompt about clearing, salting, or sanding the roads.......

This is another thing that pisses me off about GM. For something this minor, why even spend the development money at all....? We're talking about new foglamps and some fender vents. Who's gonna notice....other than us on here? At least the MCE on the '09 SL has a bit more differentiation in the front-end......

....and I apologize for my harsh response to Ven....it's nothing personal. But dammit, if we didn't care, we wouldn't get this vocal. Guys like Enzl and I wouldn't spend the time we do on here. It's not like we don't have other things to do.... <Chris takes a deep breath>

Unfortunately your post is pretty much all pointless to me. Harsh? Sorry. Here's why....... Before this job, I've only spent a short time at the BMW store. Before that, my whole CAREER was based around the industry. (Don't forget I also have 11 years on my GM pension.) My whole career, prior to now, has been at different levels, to analyze and be informed about the market. My favorable opinion of BMW doesn't come from working at a dealership for 6 months....it comes from my personal and enthusiastic opinions of the company and their products. I'm not trying to sell a car to anyone on this site.....so I really don't care WHAT any of you think about my opinions.....in that regard. I'm talented enough to be able to separate my internal opinions about my product from my actual sales approach with a customer. THAT's what a talented salesperson is able to do. Otherwise, there's plenty of pre-owned (non-GM) cars and trucks on the used-car lot that I would have a hard time pushing. And none of your post changes the brutal fact that GM is a sinking ship.....with a management team that refuses to accept the realities of the market....and seemingly simply don't have, or never did have, the foresight, knowledge, or intelligence to effectively compete in today's market. For a company of this size.....and of this historical importance....it's PATHETIC the levels of incompetence in the VAST majority of GM products compared to their competition. It's PATHETIC that this company is still operating under a "good-ole-boys", "cover-my-ass" culture that fell out of favor 30 years ago. It's PATHETIC that this company STILL operates with too many dealers, too many brands, and too many models. And, frankly, it's PATHETIC that so many people are so blind to all of this. OK...Now I'm sorry for my "harsh" post. But one harsh post deserves another..... Dammit.....I'm SICK AND TIRED of the fact that it was Toyota that came up with the Prius and marketed it so successfully. I'm SICK AND TIRED of the fact that it's the Camry and Accord that are the two best-selling midsize sedans (and there are good reasons they are.) I'm SICK AND TIRED that I still have to "spin" away the reason why GM's fullsize SUVs (Escalade in my case) don't have power fold third row seats like everyone else in the market. I could go on-and-on....but I know no one on here would read it. OH....and btw....I'm not trying to "convince" any GM fans or C&G members on here of anything. I thought this was a forum to offer up one's honest opinions for open, (sometimes heated) discussion. That's all I've ever done. If someone wants me to leave C&G because I'm opinionated, don't drink GM kool-aid, and offer opinions that spark controversy, well then ask me to leave. Otherwise, if you don't like to subject yourself to my posts, comments, opinions, or insights, then you don't have to read my posts....and you CERTAINLY don't have to respond to them. You won't break MY heart.

That's an idiotic comment....and you KNOW IT..... Of course I don't talk Cadillac customers into BMWs.......doesn't mean I don't still have my internal opinions on GM and it's competition....

For the record, we get more traffic and attention on the DTS than we do the STS. STS just seems like a bastard step-child that sits on the lot and rots. Sad when you consider the second-gen "STS" was Cadillac's first step into the mainstream to battle the high-end imports. And there for awhile, it was pretty good at it....FWD and all..... People that like the CTS are bored by the STS, and see it as resolutely old-school GM....where as the CTS is gunning for BMW and Benz. DTS pulls in the old fogeys.....who wouldn't look at a CTS or STS. (However, that being said, we'd be much more successful with a modern, RWD, full-size STS/DTS replacement that could stand toe-to-toe with the larger and more expensive imports.)

The materials and craftsmanship inside any BMW are far superior to the STS.......and as far as "driver-oriented"....it's the seats, a smaller steering wheel, clear, readable gauges that offer absolutely no flash at all, etc. BMW interiors seem like "cockpits." Most Caddy interiors (CTS excepted now finally) still seem like barcalounger living rooms. I'd say the STS is not bad, per se, but not up to the level of it's competition at the price point it plays in. Also, too much "retro" GM in the controls, fittings, plastics.....(as opposed to, say, CTS.)

UGH....I hate the "round gauges in square tunnels" look......

I was mostly just yanking your chain.... But do you have ALL of those in your immediate household? That's what I was wondering.....

UGH....speaking of GM "cost concerns"..... I can't TELL you how many Escalade deals I lose to Navigator, Expedition King Ranch, M-B GL450/550, and others.....due to the STUPID 3rd-row seat that doesn't fold into the floor.....

What the HELL do you need with......an H2, Escalade, SRX, AND a Suburban?

We had a guy in today at the Caddy store that wanted to trade in an '07 H2 on an Escalade. Couldn't make the deal....because.....he was $25,000 buried.....

It's a BITCH. I've worked at the Caddy store for two weeks now......and let me tell you....the new CTS is most definitely one of the best products GM has in it's product portfolio right now.....and it can stand up to any competitor in the marketplace. Yes, the 3-/5-Series might still be more of an ultimate drivers car, and Audi might still have the slightly superior fit-and-finish.....but in the end, CTS is on pretty much the same plateau now as it's competition. AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM...... They haven't leapfrogged.....they haven't re-invented the market.....they haven't done anything spectacular to make those BMW, Benz, and Lexus drivers to make the CTS their new "gotta-have" car. So...yes now we have the product. BUT....we STILL have to convince those consumers dedicated to their German (and sometimes Asian) competition to "make the leap" and join GM again. CTS is a HOT PRODUCT at our store....no questions about it.......but STILL.....I can count on one hand the number of german-import trade-ins or cross-shoppers we get. IF GM pulls out of this slump.....it will, I guarantee, be decades before we see it. And in order to do that, they have to hit all the buttons between now and then. Given past performance, I don't know if they can accomplish that.

The problem is, it's going to be a very long time, IF EVER, before GM can overcome the perception, image, and desirability of the BMW nameplate (not to mention Mercedes-Benz and Lexus.) We can debate the merits and demerits of CTS versus 3-Series before we are blue in the face. But the fact of the matter is, the consumer that just has to have "a BMW" (or insert prestige name brand here) is going to be very tough to win over....even considering the excellence of a new product like the CTS. The REAL problem is.....this perception, image, and desirability factor comes into play in more mainstream market segments also.....(Honda/Toyota, Chevy/Pontiac/Ford.) From a product standpoint, IMHO even though I still like my car, my '07 CTS isn't nearly as appealing to me from a driving, ride, handling, and powertrain standpoint that the 3-Series is. The new CTS is much closer.....and will make my decision more difficult when my lease comes up.

That statement is so true, it's not even funny........

I don't know if Buick can have an American revival.....at all....at least not like all of us would like to see. But even if it did, the market is way too over-saturated with excellent and exciting choices these days. It would take something completely off everyone's radar right now to generate the kind of excitement for Buick that would make a difference. If it were Buick a few years ago, that had brought out a distinctive, full-size, RWD, Corvette-engineed, "Park Avenue".....instead of Chrysler......we very well might be looking at a different Buick today. But now.....if Buick were to go with the expressive, American-styled, luxurious, RWD, full-size sedan.....well......we already have a 300C out there. Kind of a "been-there, done-that" type of situation. 'Course....considering Ford has been so slow at coming to the game, maybe it wouldn't be as bad to have a "Park Aveune" duking it out with a 300C in the market. I just don't know....to tell you the truth.....

You know, as much as I like Cadillac, you are RIGHT....! We have exactly two cars that are worth a damn.....(from a retail-sales standpoint)......CTS and Escalade short-wheelbase. STS? Dud. DTS? A tiny bit less of a dud than STS. ESV and EXT? Duds, especially compared to their short-wheelbase cousin. SRX? Dud. All this talk about Cadillac being a "revived" brand is bunk. It's not in ANY way a "revived" brand. It's a brand that just happens to have an award-winning entry/midsize luxury sport sedan, and a high-end SUV that appeals to the bling crowd. We never should have been saddled with the STS (or we should have had a "true" STS that was as competitive in it's segment as CTS is in it's own), and DTS should have gone away a long time ago.

Do you realize how much CTS traffic we get at the dealership NOT because of any sort of "deal?" "Where's the Car of the Year?" "I wanna test drive that new Direct Injection V6." "I heard Caddy has this new BMW-fighter!" GM has shown they can do it.

Vague....really vague. What IS your definition of "price" in this matter? Who knows. And who knows what the consumer considers "price." "Price" is usually considered to be a factor such as "I want a CTS" but I can "only afford a Cobalt." So, in that manner, YES...."price" is one of, if not THE most important consideration. But, let's say you are comparing a CTS to a new 3-Series....where the lease payment differs by $50 (or so....pulling figures out of my ass)........most likely, price won't be nearly as big of a factor. If you are swayed enough by the CTS styling and features, you most likely can afford the extra $50. It all depends on how you define it.

I shudder to think it was "the deal" that got it for you......not the fact that the CTS was actually a far superior product to an XG350, Legacy, 300M, or other General Motors products....... You are a PRIME example of Enzl's whole POINT....! And you walked RIGHT into it. (Contrary......for the most part, a new CTS at our store is more expensive, payment-wise, on a lease, than a comparable 3-Series or C-Class. But you know what? CTS is doing FAR better than it's ever done before (at least in the Las Vegas market.) People see real value in the styling, driving character, and appointments of this car. We'll see if the trend continues....)

OK Oldsmoboi.....I'm gonna drop this one. But JUST as a reminder TO YOU.....this is the one-line sentence that you typed......that I responded to. Go back. Re-read my original post responding to THE ABOVE. You are the one that was flying off into tangents.

You are in a constant state of dillusion......WHERE do you come UP with this CRAP? ("Crap" meaning that you are a MASTER of "spin.") You keep trying to deflect the whole argument about a simple matter of "low-end torque" in a pushrod versus a multi-cam/multi-valve engine. As usual, my argument is such that you can't get around it.....can't respond to it.....can't combat it.....so you throw out this incredibly vague collection of paragraphs, phrases, opinions, and verbatim....JUST to try to deflect everyone reading these post from the real point. I'm laughing right now....

.....or a $38,000 Hyundai......

LOL......I was thinking either something like that, or maybe "The Strip"...... The pushrod/DOHC mini-debate that started in here was the result of Oldsmoboi whining (j/k 'Boi) something about loosing his pushrod engines with "torquey" low-ends.....and that valvetrain configuration has little to do with refinement and NVH. That's what I was responding too. Showing that, for similar-sized displacements, in the same car, (AURA and Malibu) the DOHC choice in this matter is, in fact, torquier, at a lower rev-range, and offers lots more horsepower....with comparable mileage. I was trying to make the point that, in order to match the 3.6L in power and torque, you'd have to have a pushrod V6 probably greater than 4.0L, maybe even 4.3L....4.5L (based on what GM is getting out of the 3.5L, 3.8L, and 3.9L.)

Who has "frequently described" the 3.6L as "louder" than it's Honda counterpart?