The O.C.

No....lots of stuff-touch stuff inside....and nothing nearly as bad as what's in the Cobalt. The top of all the dash, the door panels are soft-touch and what IS hard-touch inside is really nicely-grained and looks and feels good. Styling inside is a bit strange, but when you sit in it, it looks kinda cool from the driver's seat.....and strange as it is, fit-and-finish is exemplary. From the standpoint of fit-and-finish, quality of materials, and seating comfort, it is a whole class (or two) about Cobalt and Focus and on a par with Mazda3.

......ACTUALLY.....Jeep has announced that the Patriot WILL be "Trail-Rated." Figure on less outright ability than Liberty, but factor in that it WILL be the most able-bodied AWD, car-based off-roader on the market......far more able than Escape, CR-V, Equinox, etc. I had a chance to take a new BMW X3 off-road and for a vehicle that has NO pretentions of tackling Jeep or Hummer in the dirt, I was amazed at how competent the new X-Drive system was in the dirt. Things like a well-tuned AWD system, hill-descent-control, and non-sport-packaged wheels/tires really helped. Remember as crappy overall as it was, the more-car-based LR Freelander AWD was quite competent off-road.....

Good post and good point.....the same argument can more effectively be made when comparing something like a Jetta TDI versus the Prius. However, I really, really don't believe that most Prius owners bought their cars after putting a serious pencil to the numbers...the attraction to this car seems to be far beyond that. I think the main attraction with the Prius for them is the chance to drive something innovative, clean, and fuel efficient....all wrapped in a distinctively-styled package. Plus, I'm sure there is some draw to the "image" they feel they are protraying by driving the hybrid.

Why can't you guys just accept the fact that this might be one sweetly-engineered little car? It doesn't mean you have to buy one....or that you have to change your loyalties... Styling is SO subjective....I happen to think the car looks good....and I've seen 3-4 of them already here in southern California and I've sat in two of them....so I'm not basing my opinion on just pictures... The interior is innovative and uses high-quality materials....higher quality in my mind than what's in the Accord even with many soft-touch surfaces on the dash and door panels. I haven't driven one so I can't comment on the suspension or powertrain.....

SO....did they pick the Z to win?

I think I'm going to like it once I see it without all the camo.... Look at the wide track on that sucker.... I predict base 2.4L 170hp, opt. 3.7L 210hp, opt. 2.8L TD, opt. HEMI.

I predict that Caliber (and Patriot and Compass) will be big hits.....maybe even along the lines of the original PT. It's got style, roominess, and the new 2.4L is said to produce upwards of 170hp (matching the EcoTec 2.4) AND.....who's to say they can't put the 2.4L Turbo H.O. (230hp) into this chassis? Could they use something smaller and less-expensive? Sure....and we'll probably see it somewhere down the road....but Enzl is right....Chrysler is the healthiest of the Big 3 right now....

It doesn't matter that it's "optional." The question is....what are the dealers going to stock? In most cases, they will stock the aging bench-seat/column shifter configuration....and that's what the consumers shopping the lot will see and test drive....and many will walk away from. At least that's what Orange County dealers in California are stocking in LaCrosses.....mostly base CXs with the bench seat/column shifter.

Even though I don't like the S-Class and 7-Series shifters, they are not even remotely the same thing....they are MUCH more tactile, and don't "shift" down the column...the shifts are controlled by electronic solenoids as you "tap" the shift lever up or down, etc. .....and I certainly don't see bench seats in these cars either...... But I'd still rather have a traditional shifter in the console in both these cars.

And many GM engineers and marketers have had the same exact opinion as you for too many decades.... ".....it's okay....it's acceptable....people won't notice...." The cheap, hollow, plastic door panels that aren't even trimmed and finished at top are a prime example of GM's famous cost-cutting.....have YOU sat in one yet with the windows down and even looked at what I'm complaining about? Stop making excuses for the company.....

Please READ my post! :angry: Can't you SEE that I admitted we can't sit in it yet or feel it's materials?

Thank you empowah....! And Croc, the Spectra uses hard-plastic that is actually matte-finish, with a nice grain, and things like the glovebox and center stack plastics are not flimsy and brittle..... Center stack radio and HVAC controls feel FAR more substantial than the silver radio/HVAC controls in Cobalt. Croc, maybe you HAVE been in the new Spectra....but I think you are the one that's not being realistic....(but I still like 'ya) ^_^

I've NEVER liked any CVT-equipped car I'm driving. The Murano rental-car I have right now irritates me with its CVT. It doesn't feel natural, and the groaning and moaning from staying high in the rev range when accelerating is weird...not to mention the rubber-banding effect when you are off and on the gas.... Murano doesn't feel any better or any worse than any other CVT I've driven.... I like the feel of a traditional automatic transmission upshifting and downshifting through the gears as you accelerate.

I don't know about you..... .....but myself and about 99% of the rest of the population in this country NOT directly involved with the auto industry, are not going to see any degredation in OUR standard-of-living because of this.......

EXACTLY why this is such a breaking point for the UAW. It's a MAJOR precedent that's being set before our eyes.... The '07 contract negotiations between the Big 3 and the UAW will be like no others that have come before us.....

It's GREAT to be a patriotic American.... BUT what people don't realize, is that in today's world economy, we don't HAVE to manufacture all or a good portion of our goods here to be a world-leader and economic powerhouse. What we NEED to do is leverage the available resources from around the globe to our best benefit for our economy. Even with a Delphi bankruptcy or even, agast, a GM bankruptcy, we will still continue to manufacture cars, trucks, and supplies in this country.....I don't see that going the way of the steel industry....but it WILL be a different business climate for the Big 3 and their related suppliers. We never were a big export country, if I'm correct. CERTAINLY we've never exported domestic-made automobiles to any great extent. AND, if I'm right, we probably export WAY more of the Hondas, Toyotas, BMWs, and Mercedes-Benzs that are built here than we EVER did any of the Big 3's products....

....America is not going to suffer from a UAW strike....at least not in a large scale. As I've said before, the rest of this country's economic sectors have already adapted or ARE adapting to this new world economy that we see forming. The domestic auto industry and what happens to it right now will have an impact, but a relatively small impact on this country. It's a fact that the domestic auto industry has a fraction of the impact on our overall economy than it had say, 50 or 40 years ago. It's a different world now and a different U.S.A. Whatever has happened, economically, for the U.S.A has for the most part, already affected us good, or bad. The domestic auto industry is just about the last sector to face this new reality. I can guarantee you that even though I'm IN the auto industry, I won't be affected by what's happening to Delphi or GM. (I don't currently work for one of the Big 3 or their suppliers anymore, but I am associated with the auto industry pretty solidly.)

I've been fighting this battle forever too.....GM is the only holdout to cars with column shifters and bench seats. All it does it use up development costs to engineer the different seating parts and steering column parts and shifter parts when you'd save money doing only ONE configuration. Plus, it's hard to engineer proper steering-column stalks on the right side when you have a shifter jutting in the way.... I know there are some people on here that prefer column shifters but if you look at the market, they are in a HUGE minority. If Ford, or Chrysler, or one of the imports were still offering this alternative, and people were buying it, you could put together a business case for me to develop it in a new car like LaCrosse, Impala, or Lucerne. BUT, the business case is simply not there, compared to what IS selling in the marketplace. (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Town Car don't count in my mind......they are old designs that have had column shifters for decades.....and certainly are not selling RETAIL in any big volumes at all.) Ford didn't do it in the new 500/Montego......Chrysler didn't do it in the new LX cars.....Toyota even did away with it in the new Avalon...... To me, the downsides are the image such features give the car in the overall marketplace (like why whitewalls and vinyl roofs have gone away.) We WANT import owners to be attracted to this car and the reality is, the Buick dealers will probably (unfortunately) stock way more bench-seat CXs than they will CXS models.....at least that's what our Buick dealers out here do with LaCrosse. I think that's a bigger downside than the upside of the very few GM/Buick fans in the marketplace that actually prefer a bench seat/column shifter.

Of course you shouldn't be pulling it off.....but it's a good example of one area of the car where GM really should have put more thought into.....that's all.....

http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif "Straight shooter?" You don't EVEN want to know where my sick mind could take that comment......hehehehe

This interior is BEAUTIFUL and looks to outclass anything GM offers....even the STS... Of course we can't touch and feel the materials, but just look at the great fits and lack of cutlines on the interior.... Why can't GM do this at a competitive price?

Xterra probably deserves it.......I test drove one before ordering my '06 Liberty company car and even though it looks like the old one, they've made MAJOR advances in NVH and refinement while keeping the "butch" look and image. I drove a 4X4 4.0L V6 with 6-speed manual and it was smooth, punchy, with a really nice clutch and shifter action. For the price, it was unbeatable. $25K pretty well equipped. And for people that DON'T want a "cute ute" it's a really smooth and refined take on the "truck-based-chassis" SUVs. The interior materials were lacking, but everything fit together pretty well. As far as the others, Explorer is really nice but really not ALL that new.... RR Sport is nice, but way overweight, and although new for a Land Rover, it's been done a long time ago (X5, Cayenne) so it really doesn't establish any new ground in the segment. I'm kinda surprised M-Class didn't win.....but after driving it, I can also conclude it's a HUGE step up for Benz but not good enough to redefine the segment. H3 was, for sure, let down by it's drivetrain and inefficient interior roominess.

Miller doesn't have to BUDGE....it's a different game now. UAW strikes? The court will most likely nullify the UAW contract.....leaving Miller free to fire as he sees fit.... In this context, a strike means NOTHING to the UAW....

I'm no expert in labor relations, but what I read into all of this is that IF Delphi and the UAW don't come to an agreement by December (and it looks like they won't....I don't see Delphi loosening up any) then most likely Delphi's attempt to get the court to throw out the contract will be successful. Then, I see the UAW striking.... THEN....with no contract binding them, I see Delphi wasting no time in issuing an ulitmatum. Stop the strike and accept Delphi's terms....or striking workers will be fired... Delphi will have no problem filling employee vacancies with new hires.... Guys and gals, it's a new world now and while the REST of the country's economic sectors have already adapted or begun to adapt to the new economic reality in the U.S., the Delphi/UAW situation is the first sign of what we can expect to begin happening to the rest of the domestic automobile industry....

Uh, yeah it is... I was in a showroom looking for one....and started pulling the door panel away from the door and stopped....because I felt I was going to rip it off the door panel. That's not right....and just plain crappy.....and GM should be ashamed. For the record, my parents' 99 Regal GS had the same problem. The door panels were really shoddily attached and you can easily pull them away from the doors.