The O.C.

I'll chime in on the Rendezvous debate...... To me, Rendezvous signals the "old" GM to me....(whereas something like Lucerne, etc., is alot closer to what I'd like to see in a "new" GM.) I had one as a rental recently, and considered it quite nasty, unfortunately. To me, it DID drive like a minivan, with a floaty ride on the freeway, tipsy feel (even for an "SUV") in the corners, and a platform that felt less-than-solid going over bumps. The V6 performed better than I expected (given the road test numbers I've seen) but it was GM-pushrod-V6-typical rough, thrashy, and noisy. The exterior design looks like what it is.....an SUV that has been designed to fit over minivan architecture The interior quality and fit-and-finish was really pretty crappy......cheap silver plastic on the center stack, for example. However, the gauges were TOTALLY classy and a nice touch (even if they are a bit harder to read due to the "aqua" color on silver-ish backgrounds. The very next week, I had a Toyota Highlander......and what a FAR classier, tighter, higher-quality-feeling vehicle all around....(even if it is a bit bland looking.)

Yes they CAN be argued with....... <_< That "old-school" platform gives the LaCrosse, Impala, and GP simply awful interior packaging (mostly back-seat woes) relative to their quite-large exterior size...... not to mention the design woes such as the overly large front and rear overhangs. I've already ranted about how the 3800 is well past its prime.....these cars need the HF 2.8 standard and the HF 3.6 optional.....at LEAST.....

BV you are right about the Quad4.....but unfortunately, really, the Quad4 was a pretty bad engine. I had an Acieva SCX W41 with the 190hp Quad4 and you really can't compare the Quad4 to modern import multi-cam/multi-valve 4cyl engines.....or even to the Ecotec L4. Quad4 didn't like to rev, yet that's where it produced most of it's power. It was noisy and rough. Road test acceleration numbers looked good....but the reality of living with a Quad4 was much worse. GM hasn't done a good 4cyl engine until the Ecotec.....and it's NOW a pretty good one. But if you are using the Quad4 as an example to guess what you'll think of a Honda 1.8L or a Mazda 2.3L will be like to drive, you are comparing apples to oranges.

See? That's my point about driving the Honda. The Toyota 1.8L H.O. engine in Vibe GT, Matrix XRS, Celica GT-S cannot compare to Honda's V-Tec engines, etc. The Hondas don't take near as much time to get into the powerband....and produce much more flexible power down low. The Toyota is a very bad example (IMHO) of a "typical" "high-revving" Japanese 4cyl engine. Even the S2000 I drove a month or two ago wasn't bad. Sure most of it's power was above 6,000rpm, but even way below that, it was smooth, tractable, and nice to drive. It's wasn't sluggish at all on the low end....it's just that the MAJOR power boost came higher up.....

The smog is not really as bad as the media makes it out to be....as long as you are anywhere near the coast. The only time it's really bad, is if you are way inland....up close to the base of the mountains that ring the L.A. basin.....because the smog gets blown inland and hits the mountains and can't go anywhere.... Plus, BECAUSE we have the mountains, it makes the smog stand out more in the background....many cities like Houston for example have real serious smog problems and many years is rated worse than L.A....but you never hear about it in the news, etc. Phoenix and Denver are real bad too.....

Hitting the brake lights up your brake lights when you really don't want that cop closing in on you to see you tap your brake lights......

You know I'm wondering if it has to do with cruises on the stalk versus the wheel....? The Corvette has cruise on the stalk.....and DOESN'T have a cancel function.... hmmmm.....

Like he said....once you start using them, you'll LOVE them. And the point is....for lane changes, you ONLY need ONE tap....not two like you said above....one tap gives you three-four blinks and then they stop automatically. The C6, actually, has the "tap" feature on the turn signal and I LOVE it. You tap it without "clicking" it on, and the signals flash three times then go off. GREAT for lane-changing. The BMW and Mercedes turn signals are very similar.

Well, the C6 DOESN'T have a cancel button. Cancel is very convenient if you need to disengage the cruise, but still want to use resume later. Why use cancel to disengage? If you don't want a cop behind you see you tap your brakes to disengage....or you don't like the idea of moving the shifter to neutral (or dipping the clutch pedal will do it too.) As far as the Benz headlight question, the S-Class has a dash-mounted dial knob and it controls (very effectively) the headlights, the parking lights, the auto setting, the front AND rear foglamps. You twist from left to right to activate lights....and then pull out once for front fogs and a second time for front AND rear fogs... Two actions.....twist and pull....very convenient and simple...and keeps the stalk less cluttered.

OK sorry I'll modify..... I don't mind simple headlight controls on the stalk....my Jeep has ONE dial for twisting the headlights from off, to parking, to on. It's on the stalk and not offensive. The Corvette, however, has two dials that move both ways and has way more functions such as the DRL cancel, the "auto" setting, the foglights, etc. It's WAY more complicated. In THAT case, I'd rather have a dial control on the dash somewhere like the Mercedes referenced in my previous post....

Believe it or not, L.A. is one of those cities..... For example.....you can be in the middle of urban Hollywood, West Hollywood, or Beverly Hills then drive 5 minutes up into the massive expanse of the Hollywood Hills and you are on windy two-lane roads in the middle of trees with houses perched on or atop hills or down in hidden valleys. In fact, because L.A. is surrounded by mountains, and even has numerous smaller ranges of hills WITHIN the cities and suburbs, you can live right in the middle of the L.A. basin and be minutes from a more rural-type setting.....or you can be an hour or so from REAL mountain living...up near Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead at 6,500-feet-plus up in the San Bernardino moutains. I live in Aliso Viejo, in the O.C., and our city has 51% of it's land area as wilderness or parks. Our city is on the hills that separate the ocean and Laguna Beach from the rest of south Orange County and MANY times we have problems with wild foxes and coyotes roaming our subdivisions. Right in the middle of a county with over 3million population, I can drive and be in a HUGE wilderness area hiking, jogging, or biking in 5 minutes. It makes the craziness of living in the southern California urban jungle alot easier to manage.

Yeah....I agree.....even though I live in the O.C....I love all the energy and excitement of living in the L.A. area....17million-plus if you count L.A., Orange, Ventura, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties..... There's more traffic on the freeways here at 2am then most cities during the middle of the day....there's always somethin' going on...... I voted urban....but love suburban also. I would live right in the city....IF I could afford to live the same lifestyle I do out in the suburbs.... The nice thing about living suburban in the O.C., is that there's plenty of nightlife, culture, restaurants, and bars without having to go up to L.A., etc. That's not what I found living in the suburbs of most other cities I've lived in (Detroit, Philadephia, even San Francisco, Dallas, etc.) In those cities, if you were in the suburbs, you HAD to go into the city to find anything to do...or find a restaurant that's actually NOT a chain....etc.....

Guys....I'm not going out to buy a Civic or anything......MY choice in this segment WOULD be a Mazda3s sedan. I'm just TRYING to make a point about the fact that you simply CANNOT generalize about the performance, flexibility, or economy of a vehicle simply based upon the stated horsepower and torque figures. I understand EVERYONE (damn near) on this site HATES the Civic.....okay then..... But HOW many of you have driven both a NEW Civic and the Cobalt (for example...?) And not just "around the block?"

I think it's the significance of a Korean entry in the largest segment (midsize) making the top-ten alongside Accord and Camry......

PLUS.....how come GM STILL refuses to give us a "cancel" function for our cruise control? Tapping the brakes briefly lights up the brake lights....(not good if you see a cop coming up behind you) and moving the shifter into neutral and back seems unnatural. Also, turning the cruise "off" without tapping the brakes cancels the cruise memory function.... EVERYONE else I can think of gives us a "cancel" button for the cruise that kicks it off without forgetting your cruise setting.

I agree with you, Croc. My C6 has what I call a "modified" version of the typical GM stalk.....the wipers are on the right-hand side, but the headlights and foglights are still on the turn-signal stalk and cumbersome at BEST to use....I hate it.....AND they've STILL packaged the cruise functions on there as well..... All the headlight functions, plus the "auto" setting, the DRL "cancel" setting, the foglights, and the normal lights are split between two rotating "dials" on the turn-signal stalk. The best I've seen is the Benz (and similar BMW) headlight dial on the dash. Turn the dial to the right to activate the lights you want (off, auto, parking lights, on) and pull the dial OUT to activate the foglights. When you turn the dial "off" it automatically goes IN and turns off the foglights as well.....simple, intuitive, and easy to use.....

Nah nothings wrong with you. Some people like some things and others like other things... Personally, I prefer cruise control on the steering wheel or in the "Toyota" position on the right lower side of the column.....and wipers on the right had side. I don't mind headlights on the turn-signal stalk.

Well, here you go......Edmunds Inside Line road test......they just did a comparison of the new Civic EX Sedan (NON-hybrid) versus the Mazda3 sedan. Both cars had automatics. Now the Mazda3 won the comparo.....but I'm more interested in comparing acceleration between the Civic EX and the Cobalt 4-door that was tested a few months back in the economy-car comparison........ Cobalt - 2.2L, 4-speed auto, 145hp, 155lb/ft 0-60 - 9.2secs 1/4mile - 16.6secs @ 82.7mph as-tested mpg - 22.5mpg Civic - 1.8L, 5-speed auto, 140hp, 128lb/ft 0-60 - 9.6secs 1/4mile - [email protected] as-tested mpg - 29.7mpg Considering the Civic's "on-paper" major torque deficit (and minor horsepower deficit) I don't consider 4/10ths of a second slower to 60 and half-a-second off in the quarter mile to be a major lack of performance compared to the way torquier Cobalt. I'd like everyone to also note the as-tested MPG. Now I know that no test is the same, but considering the testers probably drive these things with the heaviest of feet in any case....I think the difference of over 7mpg (considering the minor difference in performance) is quite significance...in favor of the Civic. My point is.....that numbers don't tell the whole story and some of the posters on here that are overly arrogant (reg...?) about the "torqueless" Civic need to hold their opinions until you've driven them back-to-back.....then make a fair comparison and don't fall victim to stereotypes about engine performance.

But you are forgetting my point that the H2 and H3 are basically a new skin on the Tahoe and Colorado architecture.....basically fancy rebadges.... None of the current Jeep lineup shares anything (other than engines) with other DCX products. And say what you will about Liberty's chassis.....in enthusiast (re...Jeep) circles it gets rave reviews for its off-road prowess....and will definitely stay with any H2 or H3 off-road....(when equipped with the optional P245 tires and skid plate package.)

Disagree with you balthazar in a MAJOR way. The lack of trunk space is a total deal-killer for me. The reason I LIKE my C6 convertible (and why I'd pick a Miata over a Solstice) is because, even with the top down, there is still plenty of trunk space for two roller bags and a bit more stuff. One of the pleasures of owning a convertible is the ability to take short trips....driving with the top stowed. With Solstice, you can't take ANY luggage with you (I believe it's 1 cu. ft. or LESS with the top down) if you are going to drive with the top down. SO, therefore, if you want to go on a trip in your Solistice, and have to take ANY luggage with you, you have to go on your trip driving with the top UP. That, to me, totally negates any reason for buying a convertible. I'm not sure where you live, but here in SoCal, it's a rare event that I drive my C6 with the top UP. If I had a Solstice, I'd never be able to go anywhere.....go golfing....take luggage on a trip....even run errands and go shopping...! UNLESS I threw everything in the passenger seat instead....and THAT negates taking anyone along with you. As far as the interior quality....I've ranted on that already....it's a great-LOOKING interior that's way let down by shoddy plastics and fit-and-finish. Miata is quite superior in this regard.

I'd buy another Focus in a HEARTBEAT.....even the "old" one (now that Europe gets the "new" one.) I had an SVT Focus for a bit over a year....and that was a HELL of a car....and I never had any problems with it....tight, no squeaks, rattles, nada. The Focus is STILL one of the best-driving small cars out there (even in 'base' form....that's what makes it so good....the base car drives GREAT.)

.....man please DROP IT.....! :o No, seriously.....didn't we put this to BED in the Civic thread? OK so you don't like the CIVIC....WE GET IT...... Geezus Reg....you piss me off sometimes..... <_<

Yeah and I'm gettin' SICK of ALL the rental Impalas around me here in socal.... No seriously.....I really like the SS, and have been DYING to find an LTZ to look at....but every FRIGGIN Impala I see in a lot or on the road is an LS or LT with the rental barcode in the rear window....and they are all white, silver, or grey. AARRGGHH

Have you driven it? It's a GREAT engine.....smooth, revvy, with a GREAT V8 soundtrack. 4.6L Ford OHC V8 is a much nicer overall engine (IMHO) than GM's family of 4.8/5.3 litre OHV engines. Plus.....I think 300hp from a 4.6L is GREAT compared to GM 'only' getting 303hp from a much bigger 5.3L...?????? BUT, yes....I do think the LS2 is a step above them both....

I've driven most of these engines.....the only one I don't agree with is the Audi V8. Oh, for sure it's a great engine (in the S4 I drove) but I don't see what makes it any more competitive than most other similarly-sized V8s from BMW, Benz, or Cadillac.