The O.C.

Ditto. I've also owned three different BMWs and I never "got it" about BMW until I owned one and lived with one. I had an '04 330i Coupe w/ 6-speed, sport pkg, 18-inch opt. wheels, then an identically-equipped '04 330i Convertible. We currently have an X5 4.4i Sport and it is hands DOWN my most favorite SUV I've ever driven. It's everything a BMW is supposed to be.

MAN this is getting OLD......take your blinders off......

.....you mean "softer" like many people on here bitch about Toyota doing....? Why can GM go "softer" and you love it.....but people are "idiots" because they buy "bland" Toyotas instead of GM cars?

Saw it last week.....Camry's a winner. Interior execution is top-notch, perhaps best in the midsize segment. I'm kinda neutral about the exterior styling....but the details and fit-and-finish are beyond reproach.... Watch this car VERY carefully.....

My comments on seeing it in person, the interior on this car was the nastiest interior I've seen in a modern production car.....truly awful materials and fit-and-finish. Even the Neon had nicer materials. The actual look of the interior was okay and the gauge cluster was very nice...but I was appalled at the lack of quality.....and I'm talking it's way worse than Chrysler's trucks and the Grand Cherokee....which are pretty bad.... The exterior I really liked. It's a shame....if the interior was better executed, I'd vote this thing a true "hit" especially with the powertrains on offer and the pricing.

Saw the Aspen in person and they kinda fixed one of my complaints about the Durango.....the bad, hard, dash plastics....! They put some soft-touch stuff on the dash which was quite nice and far better than the crap they have been using in Durango. Other areas remained hard (back of the dashboard, lower parts of dash and door panels) but it was nice to see them make an effort. They did kinda like what Cadillac did to upgrade Escalade's materials over that of the Tahoe....

Nope.....Super Bee WAS there....I saw it on a turntable (I went on Thurs, Fri, and Sat....1-20, 1-22, 1-23.)

The 62% figure is FACT. Turbo200 posted a thread a few weeks ago with lots of models' fleet percentages (not just Impala) and he was a shocked as I was or as most of us on that post were. His numbers came from some legit source but I don't remember (for the life of me) what it was at this time....

Well, I just got back to southern California after spending three whole days at NAIAS and I wanted to share my thoughts, for better or for worse, and see if anyone agrees/disagrees with me...... My overall feeling was that, with a few exceptions (Camaro, et al) I am more and more (unfortunately) convinced that General Motors and Ford, if they continue on their current course, will be a fraction of the entities they are even today. There were some bright spots so let me talk about those first....... Buick Enclave - I voted it best-in-show (even over Camaro) and most-significant of the domestic companies. It's simply as beautiful in person as it was in pictures and if it DOES hold true to it's 95%-production-ready claim that Lutz gave us, then this will be a Cadillac-renaissance-level bright spot for Buick. Knowing we have two more of these coming is great news for GM. GM Full-Size SUVs (all configurations) - Winners, all of them. They (alone) won't save GM, but they've got real eye-appeal outside AND inside. Saturn SKY and AURA - They ought to just trash the rest of the Saturn lineup.....as these two cars look to be 100-times more appealing. Camaro and Challenger - Duh....... Lincoln MKS - Actually liked it in person....it's a big car and brings a nice dose of style back to Lincoln....even if it is derivitive.... Disappointments? Buick Lucerne - After spending much more time in and around the car, my impression of it keeps going down and down. The quality of the materials inside the car is an embarrassment at $26,000 (CX) not to mention $39,000 (CXS.) GM is truly fooling itself if they think this car can compete with Lexus (not to mention Toyota.) Plus, it lacks way too many features that are becoming more-and-more commonplace in the competition. Pontiac G6 Convertible - You can't access the trunk with the top down. VW and Volvo showed how to do a folding hardtop MUCH better....and the VW will even be in the same price range....with an entry-level 2.0T coming in BELOW G6. Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX - What do these entries bring to the table to entice you to consider purchasing them over the myriad of options already out in the marketplace? GM - ANY GM passenger car, even Cadillac. Fit-and-finish, quality of materials, and overall execution pale in comparison to the imports. Sorry, it's true. Take Impala for example....when I saw the new interior, I thought it was quite a smart design for GM. NOW, you see what Toyota has done with the new Camry interior, or the current Avalon interior, or look at how well executed the new Hyundai Azera's or the new Kia Optima's interior is, and the Impala looks to be a decade late to the party. For me, the imports were out in force this year and with a few exceptions, seem to have quite a few "hits" on their hands. The new LS was simply magnificant.....something that I would expect Cadillac or Lincoln to offer.....but alas, they don't. As far as GM in general, taken in isolation, there appears to be GM cars that I DO like....LaCrosse, Lucerne, G6, any Cadillac except the DTS, even Cobalt. BUT when you spend three whole days comparing those GM cars you like to what everyone else is offering, you get a real feeling for the true magnitude of what GM is facing.....and they have oh-so-far to go..... I've got other opinions on the show that I'm more than willing to offer, but I wanted to kindof give an overall idea of how I felt......

As Turbo200 quoted in a previous post, last year, Impala was 62% fleet. I don't see that as any indication of a "hit" either with consumers that actually purchase their cars or for the dealers that make next to nothing each time they courtesy deliver a fleet car. Don't expect the new Impala to seriously reduce those fleet numbers.......as nice as the new one is compared to the old one, it is (based upon how many I see at rental lots) and will continue to be a VERY strong fleet vehicle for Chevrolet/GM. I too would be curious to see the fleet percentages of the 300 and/or LX cars. I'm going to bet it's around 15%-20% at BEST..... Also, let's see if we can get data to show a comparison of profit margin for your typical Chrysler dealer with a 300 and/or LX cars and a Chevrolet dealer with a retail-sold Impala. Especially the HEMI's were commanding close to, if not, sticker price and I believe the HEMI's are still doing that. That is another consideration of what makes a car a "hit."

Everyone also should remember that engineering any AWD alternative (be it RWD-biased or not) adds cost, weight, and complexity. AND recent reviews of Audi's recent RWD-biased sport sedans shows that, as nice as they are, it still can't turn an Audi into a "BMW." I believe there are business cases for FWD and RWD cars....with AWD versions when appropriate or necessary. I like the Malibu/FWD, Impala/RWD kind-of thinking. Whenever I've lived in a snow-belt city (Detroit and Philadelphia) I've driven plenty of RWD cars with basic all-season tires and modern traction-control systems and for 95% of the driving scenarios, that got me through almost as well as any FWD car because MOST of the time, cities are quite responsive in cleaning/plowing streets. Now, maybe if I lived in a rural area where they didn't maintain the roads as well, I'd really have to look at AWD. I just don't consider FWD being all it's cracked up to be in winter weather traction. As we all know, when you begin attempting to accelerate on bad roads in a FWD car, you transfer some of the weight of the vehicle OFF the drive wheels. In a RWD car, you are transferring weight TO the drive wheels. With modern traction control and stability control systems helping to maximize what control you have back there, and you know how to drive and handle a RWD car, I think you are for the most part going to get where you are going. 12-inches of unplowed snow isn't going to make driving easy if you are RWD OR FWD. I believe FWD's advantages are greater in the area of packaging of the drivetrain to maximize interior roominess and would like to see it utilized in automotive segments where those traits are most welcome or essential for success.

It's perfect....

Well I was basically responding to the comment that it's a "competitive advantage" which I don't think is true one bit. And when (basically) those 4 (GM) car lines are the ONLY products in the industry (aside from the archaic Crown Vic/Grand Marquis) that seem to feel the need for the option, YES....I do think it's a waste. AND I think it brings a much bigger negative impact to consumers' perception of the trendiness, up-tp-dateness, old-manish-ness, or whatever you want to call it, of the car and model line and GM in particular.

Dude you are major clueless....... I've owned three convertibles before ('02 Miata, '04 330Cic, '06 C6) so I've got some experience living with them.... I don't know where you live, but here in southern California, my top almost never goes UP. If I had to screw around with the top every time I wanted to access the trunk and get stuff out or put stuff in, I'd be so pissed I can't even tell you. I want a convertible that I can LOAD up the trunk for a weekend trip.....and drive with the top down at the same time....you CAN'T do that in a Solstice.....and you can do that in a G6, but will have to screw with putting the top up/down/up/down/up/down every time you need to access your crap in the trunk. It's stupid and an inexcusable mistake from someone like General Motors.....

From 3-6, I usually listen to John & Ken on KFI640am.....but I flip back-and-forth between them and Tom..... "....Tom, take me out Kobe-Bryant-Style....."

I won't like Nav systems until someone designs one that doesn't compromise the user-friendliness of the radio and HVAC controls.

Oh LORD..... Sorry Turbo.....you've been replaced with a new favorite! Just kidding..... Seriously though.....CD/BP you are quite handsome......mes likes alots.... :AH-HA_wink:

I'm all like.....like.....going down "the" 405....and like....well the traffic is just....like...nasty Seriously though I don't notice ANY accent in California. If there's a difference, I'd say it's in the use of words or slang....like "like" and "hella" up north.

Yup! Even though I'm gay, I LOVE him. BUT my favorites are The Triplets.....Frosty, Heidi, and Frank (yummmmmy)

Yeah it's cool..... You could have picked it up for CHEAP. Those cars with manual transmissions have such poor resale value, you really could have gotten an incredible deal.

It IS a big deal. And it's an even BIGGER deal because other manufacturers don't put the consumer through the same crap with their convertibles. It's absolute RIDICULOUS to have to raise the top to get in and out of the trunk. Out here, my top is almost NEVER up on my C6 because the weather is so consistently nice. If I had to raise the top everytime I had to access the trunk (running errands, grocery store, etc.) I'd have never BOUGHT the C6. Edit....not true....I'd still buy the C6 because I've always dreamed of owning a C6 convertible....BUT if I was looking at cars in the G6 class, I'd certainly buy something else over the Pontiac.

6-passenger seating is not going to get anyone from a German or Asian import into a Cadillac. At best, you'll pull old Caddy buyers or buyers from Ford and Mercury (Crown Vic, Grand Marq.) The fact of the matter is.....NO ONE is doing 6-passenger seating anymore. ALL GM is doing is wasting money designing, engineering, and producing separate six-passenger seating configurations and column shifters in these cars. Believe me....the few people that actually would look for such a configuration certainly do not bring in enough revenue to GM to make the cost expenditure worthwhile. I sat in a 6-passenger Impala at the LAIAS and it was an absolute JOKE. You cannot sit ANYONE in the middle position....because the driver and passenger seat-belt connectors totally jam into your butt....not allowing you to sit "down" on the seat. You end up sitting ON the seat belt connectors.....and you cannot move them down or out of the way. Based upon sitting in bucket-seat versions of the DTS and Lucerne, I can't see their 6-passenger configurations being that much better than what I experienced in the Impala. It just makes NO more sense to me.

You can't generalize with the "Germany" comment. We've never had a single issue with any of the BMWs we've had (3-series, X5, 5-series.) Yes, Benz has serious issues. But I don't think you can generalize about ALL German makes.....

".....I'll get the cheesecake......." ".....and I'll get the ice cream......"

Satty, we've got "The 909" for ya!!!!!!!! You would feel right at home in the Inland Empire.....(although Riverside is now "951" instead of "909."