The O.C.

I don't think I've ever considered downtown Detroit remotely attractive....even lately with all the superbowl stuff going on......it was bad when I lived there ('88-95) and it's bad still. When we were there for the show, you could tell all the work they were doing......repatching the streets, the fake facades, all that stuff.....however, behind the fake facades were crumbling buildings and there were still way too many old and abandoned buildings with windows all boarded up. The place is like a ghosttown....even during the middle of the day. On the people mover (during the week I might add when people should be downtown working) there were only people at like two of the multiple stops it makes.....I think Greektown and Cobo Hall showed the ONLY people-mover activity in the entire city. Also, the tiny Greektown area seems to be the only part of downtown that has ANY activity going on.....?? At least that I was able to experience..... For a city of almost a million people, it has an embarrasment of a city center. It doesn't even have that many tall buildings. Look at all the cities with HALF the population that have thriving and booming downtowns (Seattle, Portland, Denver, Atlanta, Cleveland, Baltimore....and many more) Props for what they are TRYING to do.....but I think there has to be a more fundamental shift in the political nature of the city before it will EVER turn itself around.

Maybe because Impala is mostly a heavy reskin of an existing model? Therefore they are making a more solid claim on its reliability. BTW....I don't think the last Sonata was known to be a particular piece-of-garbage....they were pretty solid reliability-wise from what I've heard. It's really only the very early Hyundais (and Kias) that were known for poor quality.

Well, I don't think they are necessary just "clueless." I think this situation/thread really points to the nature of the true challenge GM is facing in this marketplace.....the perception problem they have with consumers in the marketplace... (A perception problem, I might add, that GM fostered due to all the shoddy product they offered consumers for too many decades....and the well-built, BUT less-than-competitive or less-than-appealing product they are offering them now.)

Hey bud.....I may not be the master of advice, but I can tell you there are MANY of us (me included) that had similar challenges as you growing up and I can tell you to SMILE because believe me....there IS a bright light at the end of the tunnel.... And it's not nearly as far down the tunnel as it may seem right now...... And as far as coming out to certain people and the risk to those relationships that you are feeling now......that will all come along when the time is right. You WILL get to a point to where you'll feel comfortable telling them. It may not be right now, but don't fret as you will get there when the time is right. You are young.....and most likely, your life will never remain the same as it is now. As you said, you can't wait to go to college. You'll leave Brookville and you'll "find" yourself and you'll "find" your life.....be it in college or whatever. Sure you'll leave memories and family in Brookville.....but you know what? You'll always be able to travel back to visit those memories and family. I left home when I was 18 to go to college.....and it was the best thing I ever did! However, in many ways, I feel you have such an advantage over me. I didn't "come out" or "come to terms" with being gay until I was 25 years old. Many times, I DEARLY wish I had started dealing with it when I was YOUR age. I regret all those years that I missed living my life...... Don't ever stop smiling! :AH-HA_wink:

I like the SRX and really have no issues with it. I've even enjoyed driving them when I've gotten the chance. Other than the fact it's a bit too "station-wagony" for me to buy, I think it's a nicely-designed piece.

Agreed.....I saw a report somewhere....and even GM admitted that heavy fleet sales helped to bolster their numbers in January. Apparently retail sales were down......

ANYONE, black OR white using a form of Ebonics......

Sadly, the vast majority of consumers out there don't consider Buick a "premium" brand......certainly not in the same light as Acura, Infiniti, Jaguar, Volvo, M-Benz, Lexus, or even Saab I'd garner.... Let's back out all of the fleet vehicles that Buick sells (specifially LaCrosse and Rendezvous) and then lets take another look at how Buick sales compare to the above. Let's also take a look at average transaction price.....let's see how big the rebates and discounts are on most Buicks sold retail....and ALSO compare that to the average transaction prices of the above. Your post is encouraging and supportive.....but Buick has a long way to go before we can "let them off the hook...." Lucerne was a START.....(and only a start) but it will be Enclave that will truly be the first Buick that can be compared honestly in the same light as its rivals at Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, and Lexus. (IF it comes to market close to the concept.)

oh, I totally agree.....no question....

I actually like the G6 and don't have much to complain about except..... 1) Center stack controls suck. However, rest of the interior is made up of quite nice materials with comfy seats, decent room, and nice fit-and-finish. 2) OHV engines and 4-speed automatic should never have entered into the equation. Didn't GM learn their lesson? Remember when the two-generation-ago N-cars were introduced WITHOUT airbags and WITH a 3-speed automatic transmission? They were universally panned for those decisions. 3) It is overweight....which I'm sure adds to the clumsy handling feel compared to the competition. It IS so close.....and so far superior to efforts like the Malibu.....

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Nissan launched Altima with two engines....(4cyl, V6).....two transmissions (manual, auto) and three body styles (S, SL, SE.) AND, at the time, Altima was launched with the most powerful 4cyls and V6s in the midsize market....and they built upon that and ran with it.

But all J-car coupes had this kink.....not just the Pontiac.

I don't think you can classify the XLR-v winning "hands down" with this price comparison. The SL may be the "normal" non-AMG car, but many upscale consumers see way more image, status, and style with the $100K SL than they do the $100K Caddy. XLR is a no-show out here in this market. I can count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of XLRs I've EVER seen on the streets here. Not to say it's a bad car....it's just competing in an arena that Cadillac hasn't earned yet. They will.....they started with the CTS and the Escalade.....but it's going to take a lot longer to get people to choose to spend $75K-$100K for a Cadillac OVER a competing BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

GEE....no wonder Carlos is not worried that over 50% (some estimates even much higher) of the California-based employees are rumored NOT to make the move to Tennessee...... I always guessed that he was banking on that so that he could repopulate the employment of Nissan with lower-cost workers.....(many probably from GM and Ford.)

.....you say that.....but when's the last time you sat in a Kia Spectra? It's interior quality of materials, switchgear, seating comfort, and fit-and-finish are 10-times what the Cobalt offers. Soft-touch (!) dash pad and door panels on the Kia (won't find that in the Chevy), nicely-grained plastics, comfy seats covered in a "plush" velour-type fabric, and classy-feeling center-stack (HVAC, radio) controls (won't find that in the Chevy either.) That being the case, I still like the Cobalts styling inside-and-outside better and it's powertrains are more substantial. But you simply cannot back up your claim that "kia interiors are nasty across the board."

It was at NAIAS. I sat in it there.

Fine....label me all you want. I don't really give a rats ass what anyone thinks of me on here. I'll bite....YES, almost anything IS better than GM right now in many fundamental ways....with a few notable exceptions that GM deserves all the credit for. There, I said it. Are you done? It's the truth....the unfortunate truth. The truth that NONE of us want to be....but it IS. It doesn't mean I still don't wish them well, or wish them success, or that I don't like the very GM products that I criticize........iIn most cases I do. Doesn't change the situation though. I'm sick of all the blind loyalty on this site when it's directed harshly at people (such as me) that point out legitimite issues and concerns.....or deserved praise for a competitor's product. And, I'm sick of all the bashing of anything that presents the tiniest threat to GM's supposed dominence. It's what got them in trouble and it's what's keeping them in trouble. I'm just as big a fan of GM as anyone, but I'm not willing to look past the fact that they are seriously uncompetitive on many levels today. That's why they are in the situation they are. And I wasn't disqualifying anything positive about Buick and Cadillac's warranty. Obviously you didn't get my point about the warranty issue. And secondly, where in my post did I elevate Kia to the same level as Honda and Toyota? Where? Please POINT IT OUT. Lucerne? If you go back and research my original posts, I was one of the most positive posters on here about the car. After seeing it more, sitting in many of them, looking at the car and studying it, YES there is TONS of room for improvement. Much like my enthusiasm level for LaCrosse and Impala. And YES....the interior quality is embarrasing for a car that goes up to almost $40K....especially when it's sister-car, the DTS, does it just a bit better in all the right places. There. Enough. Rant over.

I think the overriding argument here is that too few people see any advantage in a folding tin-top considering all the trunk capacity/trunk access compromises you have to make in ANY of these models.....

[quote name='razoredge' date='Jan 30 2006, 05:28 PM'] NEXT ! The competition has figured out how to make sloping roofs and good looking automobiles - Avalon not good looking, Camry acceptable but lacking, yet from the rear is butt ugly, Fords interesting but not for me, Dodge not for me, Accord I like the G6 far better - and still make back seats infinitely more comfortable than most of GM's offerings. -according to you - Once again, go sit in an Accord, Camry, and Altima back seat and then compare to G6, Grand Prix, Impala, Malibu, Lacrosse. As OC has documented here, GM places the seatback angle so as to artifically create more rear dimmensions, - as I recall what OC spoke about was the location of the seat bottom in the floor pan creating an awkward entry exit issue, I have owned W body, have you ? had no effect on my life whatsoever, my then 15 year old daughter said it was alrigh but nothing like the luxury roomyness of our H & C bodies, do you know about them ? didnt think so ! I really always loved to see 3 teenagers sardined into the back of an Accord or Prelude, I prayed their parents never lost them before thier time. - but not comfort. Listen to the argument, comprehend it, and then respond. - you have no arguement, nothing to comprehend, just the same old thing over and over and over, its called a fetish, maybe kinda like that guy Monk ? - [post="82355"][/post] [/quote] [post="82500"][/post] [/quote] Thank GOD you are not in a position of importance at GM....... <aaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh>

That's funny....it looks like a FAR fresher design, inside and out, than Malibu. It's actually a nice looking car. I sat in one.....and the materials and fit-and-finish are much better than the old Optima....and a serious upgrade over what GM offers in any of their compact or midsize cars.

Are YOU quoting figures from the NEW Optima just shown at Frankfurt and NAIAS? That one follows the new Sonata....and as far as I know, it shares Sonata's basic suspension, chassis, and powertrians.

Obviously you haven't driven one of their newer models lately......or even sat in them.... I HAVE sat in the new Optima.....and it is far superior in terms of packaging and materials.....and IF it drives as good as the new Sonata (on which it is based) then it will DRIVE far better than Malibu as well.....

.....like Buick and Cadillac's longer warranty?

The ZR-1s engine did........

Well kinda.....but not really....... GM's pushrod V8s don't necessarily rev like import engines......but for the MOST part, are just about as smooth (in their narrower powerband), cultured, and refined. That being said....a BMW Valvetronic V8 or M-Benz V8 is even silkier. GM's V6s, however, are no where near as smooth, cultured, or refined as the competitive V6 multi-cam/valve engines. While GM has gotten idle noise mastered quite well, any toe into the gas brings larger noise levels in their pushrod V6s as well. IMHO