The O.C.

I don't know where you live (heavy blue-collar, unionized region??) or if your lifetime career experience includes any non-union, service-related, white-collar experience.....but to me...it appears that the vast majority of the burgeoning industries currently here in the USA are non-union-related....and have always been non-union-related. AND that includes the transplant manufacturers in the south. We may have our problems (traffic, high cost, LOTS of people) but the actual job and business economy here is BOOMING right now in southern California. AND, if you research the numbers, you will see that the state of California is STILL heavily invested in manufacturing (just not auto manufacturing any more.) BUT, the state over the last 20-30 years has been progressively moving towards a more service-oriented economy (high-tech, etc.) because many, a few decades ago, had the forsight to realize that the "Hollywood" entertainment industry wouldn't dominate the economy as much as historically it has due to increased competition from Canada, India, etc. AND with the cutbacks in defense and military spending, the state HAD to find another solution. My point is.....I don't see the "doom-and-gloom" for the country in WHOLE that you and many others predict as a result of GM and their struggles with the union and their retirees and employees. I predict to say that this phenomenon (and it IS an unfortunate phenomenon) is highly regionalized. The rest of the country has moved on. And in many cases, it's all the better for it. I don't have anything against the "good" or "majority" of union workers....I have a big problems with unions themselves, their intents, and their supposed "relationship" with management. As a employee of a major corporation (and a former, 11-year white-collar GM employee) my loyalties and enthusiasm have always resided with my company and the management of my company. I could NEVER imaging harboring more loyalty or respect for a union organization over the very company that signs my paycheck. I think to work for a company with that mindset is a very sad state of affairs. The company I work for now is a multi-billion-dollar company and this company, and this industry has never been unionized. And you know what? I have never been treated better by a company and it's management, and I have never worked for a higher-class organization.

....and hence GM's REAL challenge in the marketplace......good products or not.....it's the perception they are battling.

Ironically, I think the BLS would probably do better here in the U.S. where people might be attracted to its mini-CTS looks. When I was in Frankfurt in September, the BLS display was deserted. The car seemed to get no attention or notice at all......not a good sign for a car that was developed for Europe...

I don't like any paddleshifters..... If I wanted to manually shift my automatic, I'd want to use a manual shift gate on the console with the shifter. That being said, I LOVE the 6-speed MANUAL in my C6. Short throw, positive gates, and a decently-comfortable clutch effort. It's an easy manual car to drive.

I bet they could cram the Camry's 2.4L into it.....157hp, that would probably make it pretty fun, eh?

I've actually been in numerous FJs now.....and I say.... UGLY interior, but still top-notch fit-and-finish, materials, and switchgear. I can't bash Toyota because I don't like the looks of the interior....that's my subjective opinion....what I find offensive, there will surely be many that find it appealing. At least they still used good materials and solid plastics....and that I can recognize.

The Impala is nice....other than some hard plastic on the dash. The Cobalt however? Doesn't stand a chance against Yaris in terms of materials, switchgear, or center-stack controls.

I agree.... I'm impressed with every aspect of the Yaris' interiors....including the roominess...! Other than the $h!ty gauge positioning, it's a high quality interior. What else are you going to compare it to, anyways? The Aveo??

I disagree. The Ford 5.4L OHC V8 is a favorite of mine. It's smooth, responsive, and even torquey. The problem is that it's hitched to F-150s and Expeditions that are too heavy (especially compared to their GM competition.) The Triton engines themselves are VERY nice.

No....don't misinterpret..... I think the point we were all making in the CTS-v/M5 thread is that the BMW seems to be WORTH a price premium over the CTS-v due to the execution of the interior materials, seating, roominess, yadda, yadda. It was a bigger issue than just "dash plastic" and "legroom."

While I like the look, and style of the CTS-v interior, the Dodge has it solidly beat when it comes to materials, switchgear, and seats.

It IS a great overall vehicle.....an excellent Jeep. It's just that DCX put crappy plastics inside of it. But from a ride-and-drive standpoint and an overall comfort standpoint, I love the new GC.

I'll give you that one...... (and I've been extremely critical of the Cobalt's interior materials in the past....)

I LOVE that! I've ALWAYS felt the new LR3 was WAY over-rated....

I understand your point, BrewSwillis...... But if you compare them closely, the previous-generation Grand Cherokee had MUCH nicer plastics inside.....and many of them (not all) were soft-touch to boot..... The new Grand Cherokee took a huge step backwards in this regard. Yes, the switchgear and center stack controls are much better than before, but that's almost negated by the much-lower-cost-looking materials.

My 2-cents-worth...... The Grand Cherokee (and Commander) interior plastics are garbage. They are really bad. Shiny, bittle, and hollow. That being the case, the switchgear, HVAC, and radio controls are VERY nice and the seats seem to be comfortable. It's the really terrible plastic they use on the dash and door panels. DCX seems to be using many different suppliers/designers/whatever when it comes to their interior plastics. If you go to a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep store, compare models....and see if you agree with me below: *Grand Cherokee, Commander, (new) Ram, and Dakota all have that really bad hard plastic that I mentioned above. (Unfortunately, Caliber seems to have dipped into THIS supplier's inventory for it's hard plastics.) *The LX cars are totally different, and MUCH better....even their hard plastic on the lower dash is far superior to those trucks. *Jeep Liberty, Wrangler, and PT Cruiser have an abundance of hard plastic, but it's VERY nicely-grained, matte-finished, and much nicer to look at and touch (compared to GC/Cmdr/Ram/Dkta.) I'm sure it's a cost issue......but why can my Liberty have far superior materials inside of it (IMHO) than the much-more-expensive Grand Cherokee?

I see more and more LX cars every day......including the slower-selling (relatively-speaking) Magnums. Chargers are everywhere. 300s still are. Chrysler is dumping LX cars on the dealers, but the cars are still selling well and SRT-8s are still getting over MSRP. Those cars won't be a problem, even with the overly strong production. In talking to my dealer the other day (while my Liberty was getting serviced) I see the problem as being the "cloud" cars, which are due to be replaced soon, and the Grand Cherokee and Commander. Liberty still seems to be doing "okay." GC and Commander are doing WAY below expectations. Dakota isn't doing as well, either, but Ram is still okay. PT Cruiser is still a great car and great value, even on the old Neon platform. No news yet on Caliber as my dealer hadn't rec'd any when I was talking to him. What are you guys seeing at dealers in your part of the country?

I just had a new Hyundai Sonata V6 for a rental car in Atlanta and drove it 450 miles south to Tampa so I thought I'd share some of my comments...... The car had a V6, 5-speed auto, moonroof, and alloys. It was a beautiful deep, deep, midnight blue with a light grey cloth interior. The center stack trim was a "faux, carbon fiber" plastic trim that actually comes off alot better than the woodgrain I've seen in uplevel models. Trip mileage was 24.1mpg, with about 60% of the trip with the cruise set at 80mph....and the remaining 40% with the cruise set a bit higher at 85mph. Tank range was a comfortable 367 miles to fillup. The new 3.3L V6 and 5-speed combo is a real gem. It's got lots of power, even right from a stop. If you turn off the TC, you can roast the tires (Michelins...thank goodness...no more crappy Korean tires) across the intersection without even break-torquing it. The engine is whisper quiet on part-throttle and at cruise but growls a bit louder when you are deep in the throttle at high revs (not really unpleasant sounding though....no thrash, just an aggressive growl.) A side note.....very litte to no torque steer felt. The suspension was definitely more solid and controlled than the last floaty Sonata. It's not really sporty, but feels like a quality piece over small road imperfections. It's one vice, however, is when hitting much larger bumps and potholes when the suspension voices an audible clunk to the driver which sounds worse than it probably is....and those impacts send a noticeably harsher thud to your backside. I'd rate it's "sportiness" and body-control as between an Accord and Camry. The only intrusion to NVH was an annoying wind rush around the A-pillars. It might be a deal breaker if you do alot of long-distance driving....however, it could be amplified because other than that, this is an almost-Buick-quiet car on the freeway. No engine noise at cruise and very little road roar at all. As far as the interior, I HATE that crappy terry-cloth seat trim that Hyundai still puts in the Sonata!!! It's especially worse because of the much nicer overall materials they are using inside the car. I'm sure ordering the optional leather cures this problem but if you are a cloth-lover, you'll hate these chairs. Regarding materials, the Sonata has a nice combination of soft-touch dash and door panel plastics with hard lower-dash plastics that seem very solidly built (you can't "flex" the center stack plastic away from the dash like you can in many GM vehicles. Everything seems solidly mounted and firmly attached adding to the overall improvement in fit-and-finish in these Korean cars. However, I'm not a fan of the center stack design that puts the radio way up high, above the air vents. It's actually so high, it's not as convenient to reach (if you tend to sit further back from the wheel like I do.) Plus, I just think it looks ugly. I much prefer the new Optima interior layout (platform mate) that I've seen. Overall, this was a VERY pleasant surprise. The Sonata isn't perfect, but overall I'd rate it better than the G6 GTP sedan that I had a few weeks ago in Portland. It was smoother, quieter, tighter, just as quick, and had a far more quality feel to its overall steering and ride-and-handling. While I actually like the STYLE of the G6 interior over the Sonata, I actually prefer the EXECUTION of the Hyundai's interior....it's seating (excluding the cloth trim), materials, switchgear, and overall fit-and-finish. It also certainly exudes far more class than the similarly-priced Malibu. If I'm writing the check? It would most likely be a Mazda6, Fusion/Milan, or Accord before this Hyundai. However, it's definitely in contention now! That's something my previous anti-Korean-biased-ego would never allow me to admit...! Hopefully AURA, when equipped with a 3.6L HF V6, would get me to prefer a GM midsize product over these others and this Hyundai......!

Sorry to be off topic.....but where's the new MPH???????

Wierd looking? HA! Not any more.... There's many of us on here that would rather have the new Epica than the current Malibu....or the new Captiva than the current Equinox.... I just got out of a new Sonata rental.....what a NICE looking car (Accord look-alike or not...)

Okay....fair point..... Let's change the question to......"Why couldn't/can't our designers and engineers have developed an Equinox this good-looking with this nice of an interior in the FIRST place?"

Man o man I wish we had this car as our Malibu.......except with the 2.4L EcoTec as the base engine and the 3.6L HF as the uplevel. Although if given a choice to take either car AS IT IS.....(Malibu, 2.4L and 3.5L versus Epica with 2.5L inline-6) I'd take the Epica easily.....

I don't see ANY "sleek" sedans in Pontiac's lineup.......just a tacky and trashy Grand Prix and a G6 that is actually quite attractive....but hardly exciting...... I'd rather have the "bland" yet attractive Camry V6 over the Grand Prix any day.....ESPECIALLY with the Camry's interior...... In fact I'd take an Impala OR a LaCrosse any day over GP......

They do offer a more-than-comparable interior to GTO in regards to quality of materials, seating, switchgear, and fit-and-finish.

I totally disagree...... At least SRT-8 gives you a serious upgrade in seats and seat trim......and a unique leather steering-wheel cover..... And base Chargers have hard plastic......but in less abundance than what Lucerne offers.