The O.C.

BINGO! While I'd still like the V8 option, I agree with you. That's GM's M.O......the top level suspension/tire/wheel/brake package of most of their cars are really where the base car should be at.

"Senseless Nitpicking." The opinion of WAY too many GM executives and product planners for WAY too many years. That's why GM is in the predicament that it is today.

Well, it's no secret that I LOVE living in Southern California. Every day I wake up, it seems like I'm living in paradise...! There really is no better place to live if you are an auto enthusiast. The sheer number of cars roaming the freeways of the Southland range from THE most exotic of supercars to THE most beautifully-restored old classics and hot rods. You also can't believe the number of auto-related activities that go on throughout the year. I live in south Orange County in the city of Aliso Viejo. We are three miles from the beach (Laguna Beach), 10 mins from Newport Beach, 15 minutes to John Wayne/OC airport, and about 45 minutes south of downtown L.A. AV is about an hour south of West Hollywood and Beverly Hills, and an hour north of downtown San Diego. Aliso Viejo is a cookie-cutter, master-planned community that only became a city a few years ago. However, AV avoids alot of the negatives of a "cookie cutter" community with an absolutely gorgeous setting on the backside of the hills and mountains that form the city of Laguna Beach. That setting also gives us that live in AV stunning views of south Orange County and Saddleback mountain in the distance from just about any part of the city you are in. Also, over 51% of the land area of the city of Aliso Viejo is dedicated to park lands with alot of that prime hiking and biking areas on the mountains and in the valleys separating AV and Laguna. Nightlife for those of us that live here is in abundance thanks to our close proximity to the coast and the assorted beach cities. What's also nice is that the AV Towne Center (a modern type of "downtown") has lots of bars and restaurants, shops, theatres, and even a grassy, hilly area that is like an amphitheatre where in the summers, people camp out on the hill and listen to concerts. Also adding to the attractiveness is the lush landscaping and greenery around the city thanks to numerous palm trees and tropical shrubs, flowers, and bushes. AV really goes out of their way to make sure the city is clean, attractive, and beautiful. Thanks to a significant number of younger singles and couples, AV takes on a bit more of a "trendy" feel compared to most "cookie cutter" suburbs. The weather? As fantastic as everyone says it is. There is next to no humidity, and because we are only a few miles from the coast, we never get too hot. AND, thanks to being on the backside of the hills that form Laguna, when the beach gets socked in by "marine layer" we are usually warm and sunny because the very hills that AV sets on stops the marine layer from coming over to us. That weather also means.....almost no bugs. This is one of the things people in other parts of the country don't realize. No one here really has screens on their patio doors. Everyone leaves their A/C off and their doors open because there's next to no flys, mosquitoes, or any other sort of pests. The one big negative I see is cost of housing. In AV, a simple two-bedroom condo will run you around $500K. One-bedroom apartments rent for $1,500-and-up. I'm fortunate because I've lived in CA for nine years now and am in my fifth house....being able to utilize equity to move up throughout the years. It's true that if I was JUST NOW moving to my city, I could never afford the house I live in now. The BIG "IF" is if you can afford to live here without "slumming" it, there really is no better place to live IMHO.

I'm from Dallas originally. Last time I was there (a year ago or so) I was SHOCKED how dead Dallas was from a nightlife and things-to-do standpoint. I moved away when I was 18.....and back then (18 years ago) it seemed like it was way more happening. Deep Ellum has turned into a trashy area when it used to be eclectic and trendy. The West End was DEAD. There were still some good restaurants and a decent happy-hour crowd in Lower Greeville Avenue....but that was about it. Downtown Fort Worth seemed to have ten times the nightlife and culture now.... Kinda sad for me actually......being from there and all......

I can go skiing in the winter AND go to the beach the same day too......

Oh sure it kept me definitely chilled. But that's no excuse for a VERY annoying whine that no other car I've ever driven in Phoenix or Las Vegas heat has exhibited. And, btw....it's not exactly a "tiny" engine that's being taxed. It's a large 4cyl, 2.4L, with approximately 170hp.... I'm sure if GM knows about the problem, they'll fix the compressor/AC whine.

GM's Divisional General Managers back then DID have the titles of "Vice-President" just like Ed Mertz did back when I worked for Buick.

That could be it....as someone else mentioned that was a problem with HHRs. In any event, it needs fixing. Other than that, powertrain refinement was excellent. Regarding the high beltline that, I think Empowah asked about.....you know it was never a problem for me. My HHR had a moonroof....which helps lighten up the interior....and the interior was beige, which is a light color in and of itself. I think those things helped to make it feel decently airy.

I have an '06 HHR LT for the week here in Phoenix (3.000 miles on it) and I'm VERY impressed! The HHR is a fine ride and a nice example of how GM can do something right when they want to. This rental car is a fully-loaded HHR with the 2.4L, leather, moonroof, 17-inch wheels. Highs: Mostly (explained later) smooth and refined powertrain. Good ride-and-handling compromise. Quality feel on the road. Very usable interior roominess. Lows: VERY annoying engine/tranny whine upon any measurable acceleration. Electric steering, while improved, is still too vague and loosey-goosey. Interior fit-and-finish of plastic panels on the interior is very poor. Overall: A nice effort by GM and a solid product. The powertrain on this vehicle was very impressive. However, it is realatively sluggish and doesn't provide enough power....even though this IS the 2.4L version. The refinement, smoothness, and overall demeanor of the engine and transmission really almost makes up for the lack of power. You don't mind driving this car with your foot to the floor. This is NO thrashy four-banger. However, there was a VERY annoying engine/transmission/alternator whine on this car that was apparent and disturbing when the car was driven hot. First thing in the morning in Phoenix, with temps about 95 degrees, the engine was whisper quiet. As the day progresses, and we hit 105, 110, and even 115 degrees, this whine occurs and is prevelent the entire rest of the day. The interior quality was a mixed bag. Seats are comfortable and the driving position is spot-on. I didn't even mind all the hard plastic inside this HHR as the texture, graining, and color coordination seemed really nice in this price of vehicle. The fit, however, was another thing....and follows the inexcusable examples of the Cobalts I've seen and been in too. Simply put, none of the plastic trim matches up on the dash or console. MAJOR fits are good....such as glovebox fit in the dash....door panels meet up with the dash very well....and so forth...it's the minor fits that really stand out as poor. On the other hand, the interior gauge cluster execution is really nicely-done, attractive, and useful (as the tach isn't as important on this auto-equipped version.) The leather was of a good quality...and the seat-mounted armrests were comfortable. It's a great little car that handles well and has a very refined way about going down the road.....way more so, strangely enough, than the Cobalts I've had as rental cars. The interior fit-and-finish needs refining and someone needs to figure out where that powertrain whine is coming from....but other than those two major things, GM has done a nice job with the HHR and I'd enjoy getting into another one sometime.

Well, I don't know if you are talking about Japan, but in the U.S., Mitsubishi's headquarters is in Cypress, CA. and Suzuki's is in Brea, CA. both in Orange County. Neither location is tiny and neither are they old... ???

<slurp> ahhhhhhh....... How's that kool-aid taste, Carman21?

I agree with Turbo......the new Camry interior is head-and-shoulders a far-superior effort than the Impala..... Who's drinking kool-aid....? Sorry....it ain't Turbo200.....

The article's a perfect summation of why GM is struggling so much.

CARBIZ, nice "spin" that you tried to put on what are very constructive arguments as to some of GM's product deficiencies many of us have presented on this website.... Let me try to re-set you to the straight and narrow..... 1) Electric steering.....GM's electric steering systems, most notably on the (non-GTP) G6 and Malibu are, in our honest opinions, way overboosted and with a not-confidence-inspiring vague and loose feeling at highway speeds (even with the firmness ratcheted up.) Oh, and plus....there's a total lack of road feel.....road feel...another subjective perception that when in good quantities, can add a whole layer of quality feel to an automobile. 2) GM's 4-speed auto IS reliable and smooth-shifting. However, the lack of additional ratios drops most GM engines out of the powerband when shifting from first to second because of the wider spread of ratios. A more "modern" 5 or 6 speed automatic would allow GM to keep the ratios closer, to keep the engine more on the "boil" during aggressive acceleration, and give you a higher top ratio (5th or 6th gear) for some additional highway fuel economy and noise reduction. 3) Soft, "feely" plastics on the dashboard can provide a welcome increase in the perception of the quality of the interior and the overall fit-and-finish. While the opinion of what constitues "quality" as far as dashboard materials go is an admittedly subjective opinion, many on here agree that GM is quite a few steps behind the imports (and even Ford) in this area. 4) No one on here that's been critical of GM has ever complained about the useful features that GM DOES provide in its vehicles. Those have always been welcome AND appreciated by people like myself. However, that doesn't mean we have to let them off the hook when they fail to provide those features that their competition IS providing and that consumers appear to be gravitating to.....(i.e...greater availability of Nav systems, xenon lights, tilt AND telescoping wheels, auto down AND up windows on all FOUR windows, a power recliner on a vehicle like the Lucerne, and so on.) Just wanted to clarify your clouded comments........

True...and good for you guys. Good CSi is a great way to get in the mfr's good graces. But what about that high-CSi Saturn dealer that is also charging a $5K addendum for the SKY?

4.0L/250hp should be a bit more frugal. But like Croc says....the 4.6L engines are mid-teens in normal mixed driving.

Yeah but did you TOTALLY miss my point? Sure people WANT those V8 attributes.....but in today's reality, it's becoming alot harder to justify the fuel expense. My point is that I'm seeing that myself and am faced with that very decision....

.....and....we.....should....understand yours.....WHY?

Perfect California weather NOW......"May Grey" is gone! It's supposed to be mid-70's ON the beach, hot sun, cool breeze.....and prolly mid-80's a few miles inland. Not a cloud in the sky.....nor any smog visible up against the mountains either! And very little humidity. Plus, it cools down nicely from about 6-7pm on.....

My FAVORITE part of southern California....! I feel lucky to live here. Did we squeeze in some nice weather for you, or was it still overcast and cool while you were here? Sunset Boulevard/West Hollywood is a real trip on a Friday or Saturday night. I'd have to say that is the heart of Los Angeles nightlife....and I'd also have to say that there are very few cities in the U.S. that rival it for depth of choice in bars/clubs/restaurants, etc. NY does and prolly Chicago but that's 'bout it.

Sorry....wrong-o. I know you work for a dealership but reality is that the state franchise laws protect a dealership WAY beyond what you may even feel is appropriate. If a dealer marks up a SKY.....and Saturn withholds product.....the state WILL side with the dealer should the dealer choose to push the issue. Trust me...I know...I was in Dealer Development for Suzuki for three years and know dealer agreements, state franchise laws, and legal posturing in-and-out. Same goes for a Chevy dealer or import dealer or Ford dealer or whomever. AND....you have to remember that the dealer is an independent business and the manufacturers are not "franchises" in the true definition of the word (at least legally they aren't.) Therein lies a ton of differences.

Enzl, you are so right. GM can't dictate pricing....EVEN to a Saturn dealer with a signed Saturn dealer agreement. Coming from someone that's worked for GM and worked for a dealership, Jillie's statement is nothing more than a loose threat that doesn't hold up. I hope they DON'T inflate the stickers.....but reality says if the car is hot, they will.

Like I said.....there's WAY more to a BMW than just a firm suspension. It will be next to near impossible for a company like General Motors to truly engineer a car or cars to the same level as BMW.....not while they are so dependent on platform sharing and making a certain architecture fit so many different segments of a particular market (rental Impala, luxurious LaCrosse, sporty Grand Prix.....et al) Even the CTS, as good as it is, will never be as fully accomplished of a driver's car as a BMW.....GM and Cadillac have accepted that they have to make certain compromises in the development of that car to fit what they see is their overall target market. If they happen to snag a few BMW drivers along the way, then that's gravy for them. BMW only has to appeal to BMW drivers and people wanting those characteristics in their cars..... .....such as the chassis that can be developed without having to take into account compromises for a softer (or too soft) ride.....the painstaking way they go about insuring every BMW has as close to a 50/50 weight distribution as possible......the inline-6 and V8 engines.....not having to "dumb-down" the engineering of the architecture or powertrains to fit a lower price point.....not to mention all the compromises that GM's legal department forces upon them during development. I think a whole division of exciting, AMERICAN, RWD cars from Pontiac is an awesome idea. I just hope that they don't try to rebirth themselves as the "American" or "poor man's" BMW or any other make.

Totally agreed. While I agree Pontiac moving towards RWD is an intriquing concept, to try to become a "poor man's BMW" would be suicide. There's alot more to "BMW" than just a tight suspension and manual transmission. Anyone at GM that doesn't understand that, is in serious trouble. And don't forget the snob factor. Be it a good reason or not, there's tons of people that enjoy having that BMW propeller on the hood. Like I said before......be Pontiac, be RWD, be exciting, be fast....just don't try to be BMW. You'll fail, Pontiac, BIG TIME.

I know what he's talking about. When I had a Deville ('05 model but same powertrain as the new DTS) in Maui last summer, I averaged 15-16mpg for the time I had it....(confirmed via checking it at fuel fills...NOT relying on the trip computer.) In real world driving, the Northstar drinks gas just like any other V8.