The O.C.

But I'm using YOUR argument. 12.5cu ft is piss-poor for any sedan (sport or not) the size of a CTS. I was actually shocked when I saw how little room there is back there......of course it's big enough for my needs.....so I'm not bitching. But in comparison I see that you are quick to bitch about the Toyota......

Hey guys.....I think it's Domesticated....! He's back!

I think G35 is WAY overrated. I've never had any excitement for that car......and I even spent 3-4 days in one as a rental (it was in Hertz' premier selection group and I happened to be upgraded to it.) As critical as everyone (including me) has been on the CTS interior, I like the Caddy's fit-and-finish and materials better than the Infiniti's any day.

You are quite wrong. The volume 300 is the 3.5L Touring model with leather.....and a quick scan through inventories at several local-area Chrysler stores (online) shows very few base model 300s. In fact, I don't know if this is STILL true, but earlier in the 300's lifespan, the HEMI 300C accounted for almost 50% penetration in the 300 lineup. Maybe it's different where you are....but I never see a base 300 unless it has a rental bar code in the rear window.

This car and the Calais would do WONDERS for GM in the U.S. market....! My question is NOT "why can't they import these?" My question IS more like why can't GM's north american unit design, engineer, and execute products as well-done as this (and most European Opels for that matter?) Are GM execs that out-of-touch with reality to think that people wouldn't rather prefer products like THESE over the current range they have been offering us? It's absolutely mystifying.....

Why does a $40K CTS only have 12.something cu ft..?

There's a lot of solid FWD platforms out there to compare to.......I'm not so sure I agree with you....not today at least. The Ford D platform (Volvo S60, S80, Ford 500, Mercury Montego) The Mazda6/Fusion/Milan The Mazda3/Volvo S40 Honda Accord/Acura TSX Acura TL ....to name a few. I can't think of a seriously bad FWD platform from a design, engineering, and packaging standpoint other than the GM W-bodies. I don't see how the G-body is any better (or any worse) than any other FWD platform out there.

Well.....exterior styling is subjective. However, I continue to be befuddled of how you can call the 300's interior "lousy." The plastics are far better than what you'll find inside an STS or CTS....and the overall interior has way more of a sense of occasion with the gauges, tortoise-shell "woodgrain" trim, two-tone interiors with contrasting light and dark shades, and the spare use of chrome trim accents. The 2.7 litre is a decent engine. it's 190hp is more than competitive for the size of the engine....and it's still a decently smooth motor. If it's a bit overtaxed in the 300, well then that's the 300's almost-4,000 lb curb weight that's at fault.....

I think the 3-Series is the furthest thing from overrated. It's still the best-driving car in it's class and in it's price range...and it still has a quality look and feel throughout. The Durango I don't think was ever that highly-rated to begin with....so how can it be "over"rated? I would replace the LRRR with the LR3. I think the LR3 is THE most overrated Land Rover product. It's got an incredibly cheap interior and it's way overweight. At least the Range Rover gives you a sembelance of luxury and quality. I don't know if Cayenne is overrated.....I think it's probably a very capable SUV. I just think its UGLY and I don't think it fits in Porsche's lineup.

OKAY....what's the latest procedure for taking a photo from my harddrive and transferring it to a post....? Can anyone help this computr-challenged car freak???

True....the Ecotecs are more than competitive.....and gutsy, smooth little four-bangers. But remember how long GM was still peddling the pushrod 2.5L "Iron Duke" in everything from Fieros to A-bodies....at a time back then when most imports had moved on to OHC L4 engines. The V6s are the big problem.....and the vast majority of the market (if you consider the midsize to large car segments.) The V8s are simply executed to a much higher level than the V6s. That's why the pushrod V8s that GM produces are relatively well accepted in the marketplace. That being said, I disagree about Ford losing market share due to their OHC engines. It certainly hasn't hurt acceptance of the mainstream F-150 and F-250...and I can attest to their class-competitive or even leading smoothness, willingness to rev, and overall performance. It's the trucks' relatively high curb weights that tend to blunt that performance relative to GM pickups and large SUVs.

<purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr>

Uh....yeah.....okay..... Like try sitting in BOTH.....(which I can tell you haven't sat in the back of the Camry).....and look at how little foot room you have in the Impala....and then try getting OUT of the back seat....trying to swing your feet up and out of the floorboard over the sill and behind the B-pillar.... Camry is WAY more accommodating in the back seat......but then again, so is just about any other midsize car. Hell, a G6 or Malibu is more accommodating.

TOTALLY

Exactly. We can debate merits ALL day long of, say for example, pushrod engines versus multi-valve/cams..... But at the END of the day, everyone else has abandoned pushrod technology (with the exception of a few 3.8L Chrysler V6s) in their L4 and V6 engines. People are happily flocking to the competition's more "advanced" and (in 9 times out of 10) more powerful DOHC/multi-valve engines. Why GM continues to defy trends in the market like this.....I just don't know.

Then if that's the case, why have other manufacturer embraced powertrain technologies such as multi-cam/multi-valve engines and higher-than-4-speed transmissions at a MUCH higher level than General Motors? (Not to turn this into a DOHC versus Pushrod debate....only tagging on to your above example....) Why is GM is still offering a majority of their cars with pushrods and 4-speeds when the market is clearing going in another whole direction? People may not be engineers.....or race-car drivers.....or car designers.....but the vast majority of the motoring public recognize trends, popular perceptions, and widely-held beliefs in the automotive marketplace.....and they respond to them. GM is doing itself no favors in trying to sidestep (or make excuses for) the public's perceptions.

That is simply an ignorant statement......and a belief that GM executives and decision-makers have had for way too many decades.....hence the situation the corporation is battling RIGHT NOW.

Impala Ancient architecture LaCrosse Ancient architecture Grand Prix Ancient architecture Lucerne Almost-as-ancient architecture DTS Almost-as-ancient architecture

You know.....the SAME thing happens in my Corvette..... It's quite intermittent......can't duplicate it at the dealer......but occasionally there's no display...no clock....no nothing, right after startup. I have to keep tapping the power button (like you said) and eventually it will come on. ??????

It seemed the BMW dealership I went to one time in Clearwater was in a similar building and location..... What's with that....?

Yeah....but 330 buyers can do that now if they wanted to...... All I'm saying.....is BMW to BMW.....a loaded 330i sport/nav/premium is around an MSRP of $45K and change. If the 335Ci coupe comes in around $47-49K loaded, I think, relative to the non-twin-turbo'd 330 sedan, that's a nice deal considering the classier looks and large increase in performance.

OK.....3 Toyotas and 1 Honda right now.....so when exactly DID you last actually own a domestic car so that you CAN compare reliability? AND if the tires on your Toyota lasted only 6,000 miles.....then that isn't the car's fault.... Finally.....get your facts right before you call me a "preacher" on Asian cars. THIS part of the discussion was Cobalt versus Civic so that's what I was discussing....Civic happens to be a Japanese car. If I'm to be accused of ANYTHING here on C&G, it would have to be more my appreciation for the Europeans (re...BMW)....not Asian cars....???

Hey Croc.....hang on a sec.... First of all....ocnblu.... it looks like all you're trying to do is create a catfight with me. Well....I won't bite. Back to Croc's message.....I don't know if you meant what do I like about the CTS or the DTS....so I'll answer both. First....why get the CTS when a new one comes out in a year? 'Cause I have to buy a car NOW....because I lost my company car. So...the question is.....what luxury/sport sedan do I buy that is not over-the-top expensive, but also offers a manual transmission? BMW was tops on my list. However, at this time, I didn't wanna pay the payment on a 5-series. Maybe my next car, in 36 mos, I'll be ready to....but I don't want to now. As far as the 3-series, I can't deny that it is a fabulously-driving car....but it seems like EVERYONE in O.C. has a 3-series....and many of them are chicks. As good as it is, I wanted something more distinctive (cue...CTS.) I HAVE always liked the CTS.....and the new 18-inch Sport package I think looks absolutely FABULOUS. Plus, it's kinda the "rebel" purchase. That's why I like driving the C6 around here instead of the ubiquitous Boxer or Carerra. C6s are a bit rarer. I look at the CTS kindof in the same way. What do I LIKE about the CTS? Well, it's easier to say what I don't like. I don't like the floor-mounted parking brake and I don't like a vast majority of the cheap interior materials....however, I DO like the style of the interior and the actual fit and finish looks to be excellent....even if the materials ARE subpar. Everything else? I love. To ocnblu's point about MY ego being affected by pimped-out DTSs.....I could care LESS what other people think. That doesn't in the slightest affect my decision to buy a CTS. My POINT WAS....that I think a vast majority of people ARE affected by nameplate image and so forth. If I WAS as affected by my ego, I'd have that 3-series on order right now. NOW....what do I like on the DTS? I still like the Northstar engine.....and I think the interior on the (bucket seat equipped) DTS is the nicest in the Cadillac lineup (XLR included) with just about the best materials (shame Lucerne doesn't share the same plastics.) Other than that, I have absolutely no interest in the car.....

CARBIZ, you and Newbie are doing exactly as you SHOULD do as sales people selling Chevrolets.... You are knowledgeable about your product (Cobalt in this case) and you have both formulated arguments and competitive comparisons that you utilize in hopes of demonstrating to your clients WHY they should buy your Cobalt instead of that Civic they were looking at yesterday. I give you credit for that. I would expect NO less of any of my sales people. However, unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the new Honda Civic is a far superior product to the Cobalt/G5 in terms of engineering, design, interior quality, features (Nav...) and overall product execution. Take interior/exterior styling out of the equation though because that is entirely subjective. You make good arguments about the 2.4L engine's flexibility. But in reading your comments, I'm going to assume you've never spent any significant amount of time in the new Civic, or really seen how its powertrains compare. You can't judge an engine alone on its specs. The Civic Si engine is quicker in all published tests than what we've seen from the 2.4L SS that was in MT.....and yes....a Civic Si is priced comparable to a normally-aspirated SS......not the SS SC. The base Civic L4 is VERY comparable to the base Cobalt 2.2L as well. I won't mention the 5-speed automatic. (Oooppss.....I just did.) Fact of the matter is that the market is demonstrating to us the popularity of Honda's new Civic. Factor OUT Cobalt's fleet sales, and the picture gets even bigger. SO.....you won't hear me knocking EITHER of you for defending the Cobalt. It's what you SHOULD do. However, we are in C&G....not talking to you on the showroom floor....and it just seems that you are somewhat blindsided by inability to see and/or recognize the true nature of the market and your competition. Trying to tell one of your customers that "the new Civic sucks" (wording exaggerated for emphasis) is not going to win you points.....especially if your customer is the least bit educated on the cars they are shopping. It will only put YOU in a bad light.