Robert Hall

It's a just a marketing term that Merc uses..

Wouldn't work.. Holden has no history here..do you know how much it would cost to launch a new brand here???

One a similar theme, I saw a really clean FWD Electra T-Type coupe today..

We did another fall foliage drive today, out to Breckenridge going the back way and then over to Vail and then back to Denver with a side trip up to Berthoud Pass.. great weather and scenery, and saw some interesting cars along the way..it was a nice, relaxing 250 mile drive. In a fenced-in lot by a garage in Englewood, we saw a couple of sad '59 GMs--a pale green Pontiac wagon that had hit something hard on the left front, and a black flat-top Olds 4dr..both were rusty and looked like they had been there a long time.. At a gas station outside Conifer, saw a white '56 Packard 4dr. Saw a nice red '67 Camaro SS in Fairplay...saw a tired primered gray '67 Cougar in Empire...saw a goregous black '65 Coupe de Ville in Vail, and a very clean pale yellow (no vinyl top!) early '80s Coupe de Ville...saw a sharp apple green '70 AMX coming down twisty US 40 from Berthoud Pass... Saw a C6 convertible with Michigan mfgr plates out on I-70..and a camoflaged '08 Ford Super Duty.

I love fall...this is pretty much the last week for fall colors, here though..the leaves are falling faster with the cool nights. I can't really complain about any season here--300+ days of sun per year, dry, snow in the mountains in the winter for outdoor fun, warm but not too warm in the summer....

Yeah, GM is really the company the popularized FWD in the US. They had a couple niche models for years (Toronado and Eldorado), but from 1980 they went on a FWD binge, turning out some incredibly dull, mediocre cars (X-bodies, J-bodies, A-bodies, N-bodies, etc)...and Chrysler got in the game in the same time frame and became 100% FWD (except for trucks) by the end of the '80s.. Not that there is anything fundamentally bad about FWD, it's just that GM did it so badly in the '80s, IMHO.. In 1980, Honda was all FWD, but Toyota and Datsun were still pretty much all RWD, IIRC.

The Grand Prix is pretty ugly, though..lumpy around the taillights, wierd headlights, awkward FWD proportions, long overhangs. The only thing that says Pontiac is the grille, really. The Commodore with a Pontiac grille would do fine... it's a much better looking car than the Grand Prix... I'm not sure what else could change styling-wise to make it say 'Pontiac' more..maybe the taillights? In SS V series trim, it's a pretty sleek and modern package (I'd leave off the wing and front airdam, but make it available, as I know some Pontiac fans like that stuff)..

It's a handsome wagon, no question about it.

Maybe...but the Saturn is really a 2dr with funny rear-opening mini doors like an extended cab pickup. I was thinking '4 dr coupe' like the Merc CLS..

Agreed... look at all the GMs built in Canada for the US market..or Mexico.. Razor's endless diatribe gets old..I wish he would drop it and contribute something positive..

Mercedes, since it seems they invented that strange label..

Where it is built doesn't matter..last time I checked, Holden was a GM brand, and has been for a long time...this is a GM car, through and through....remember GM is a big global company, that builds vehicles all over. What about the current GMs built in Canada or Mexico and sold in the US? Seriously, I don't see why it matters where a consumer product is manufactured...I don't care where my shirts are made, my TV, etc..we are living in a global economy, and stuff is made all over..

Cool..I'm glad to see they are doing this...this is the kind of car that would get me to consider buying a Pontiac...it has serious hardware-- RWD, V8, 6-spd manual, IRS, and clean, modern styling (leave off the wing and front airdam, paint it dark gray)---something serious and fun to drive like a BMW sports sedan but at a more affordable price point. This could be a Very Good Thing, IMHO.

Right...don't forget Avis..they need GM FWD sedans...and GM needs good FWD models to compete with the Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata, etc....hence the importance of cars like the Aura and '08 Malibu...

The big bumper corners kind of remind me of the sides of a Roman helmet...kind of jaw protection.

Because the HD's are primarily work trucks, not bling toys?

What would be an interesting comparison would be to compare the features of the Millenia against a Park Avenue of the same year... A coworker of mine had a Millenia back in '97-98 or so...pretty nice car, seemed very well equipped.

Yeah, but that's the kind of thing some Pontiac fans like, though.. it would look better without the front air dam and rear wing, though, IMHO...

My late father and I had our differences but some things in common...definitely a cultural gap because of age differences (he was 50 when I was born). We both strongly valued education and learning (he had a masters degree, was a teacher, then a principal, and then a school superintendent for many years). We both love travel and living on the ocean...(we lived my high school years in Marathon, Florida, he had lived in the Virgin Islands, Miami, Guam, Saipan, Hawaii and the Phillippennes before I was born). I learned to enjoy some of the music he enjoyed (ranging from Frank Sinatra to Johnny Cash), and I grew to enjoy some genres of movies and tv shows he liked (westerns, '70s cop shows and movies)... He was fiscally conservative, very good with saving and investing...we owned 3 homes when I was a kid and lived comfortably on one salary-- and he always paid cash for his Town Cars and Mustangs. I'm more spendy, I wish I had more of his discipline with money. He had a love of the land and open spaces--we owned a weekend/summer home (not a farm, but a country home) with 150 acres in rural Ohio for 30 years (my mom still lives there). I enjoyed the time I was there growing up, but rural life doesn't hold the same attraction to me..I'm much more of a city critter. Though he long held suit-and-tie desk jobs, he loved working with his hands---whether it was tinkering with his tractor, doing body work on an old Mustang, doing a brake job, digging a ditch, or putting up drywall and installing a bathroom, he was always handy with tools.. alas, not much of that rubbed off on me..I don't really have mechanical skills..

An ad for the Aspen in the new Road & Track has the tagline 'A lot more bling for your buck'. Ugh.

It's the kind of car one can only hope is in Pontiac's future..something with serious hardware--RWD, V8, IRS.

Make the nose pointy, leave off the rear wing and front airdam, and the Commodore/Lumina SS would make a great Grand Prix, IMHO...

Cool...interesting techology, interesting design..very modern and futuristic.

I don't have a problem with plood if it looks realistic and fits well...adds a little color and warmth to an interior, IMHO. I'd rather have it over fake aluminum or faux carbon fiber trim (real carbon fiber is hideous, fake is worse, IMHO). I've never owned a car with plugs for missing buttons or dead buttons, so I can't really say anything about them.

I don't know, some of them are pretty interesting..I like the old Q45s and today's G35 and M series... No different than people having an interest in GM's J-bodies, FWD A-bodies, N-bodies, W-bodies (which are much, much duller cars, IMHO)..