CARBIZ

The G-6 and Malibu don't really compete. 90% of the buying public wouldn't recognize them as the same platform. They are about the same size, but that is where the similarity ends. They are a good example of platform sharing; however, the Aura and Malibu are horrid rebadges, but Saturn barely exists so it isn't a huge competitor either.

More and more I am starting to question whether the internet, or media in general, need to somehow be reigned in. Negative news (and it's not just limited to GM) just seems to play on and on and on. It's to the point where I can barely watch business programs any more. I was reading on the fastlane blog earlier and it blows me away the degree of anger and sheer hatred of the domestic auto industry out there. People really need to grow up. Seriously. The degree of jealousy/hatred toward the UAW is uncalled for. Blaming GM for union concessions made in good times is ridiculous. Blaming the unions for holding out for higher pay is also ridiculous - that is what the UAW leaders are paid to do. Killing an entire industry just because it is trapped with relations and ties to a different time is not the answer. GM has a lot of responsibilities to its workers. Whether we like it or not, they have signed contracts. They also have contracts with their dealers, too. They cannot close brands or lay off many more people without it costing big time. They need breathing room to get the cost savings (P-B-GMC merger for the States and healthcare offloading) in place. What they do need is LOAN GUARANTEES from Washington and Ottawa to free up banking money to allow them to get to market the vehicles in the pipeline (Orlando, Equinox, etc) and for the American car market to recover - all of which will happen by the 3rd or 4th quarter of next year. The Silverado/Tahoe hybrids are just coming onstream now and the truck market will probably recover over the next several months. All the cost savings that were worked out over the past 3 or 4 years are only going to bare fruit in 2009/2010. It just rots my f'ing socks that the oil bubble and housing market crash - both products of greed from persons unknown (who should all be in jail, IMO) could break the spine of industrial North America. Hmm, I wonder where Toyota has been investing all of its profits over the past few years?

GM is not going bankrupt. They are too big to fail. They have too many government contracts, too many ties to Washington, etc. I guess the vultures who drove oil to $147 a barrel have moved their money and are now trying to find another way to screw over consumers.

You know, there is a point to all this: some people are naturally photogenic and often look better in pictures, while other people 'freeze' in front of the camera and look terrible. My sister, for example - she is a nice looking girl, but in pictures she comes across as model quality. Me, on the other hand, I only have 2 or 3 pictures of myself that I can honestly say I couldn't use to haunt a house, but judging by the number of guys I have to fight off me in bars, I must be a catch (the BF thinks so, anyway) - then explain the scary pictures. TAKE OFF THAT MASK! The only nice pictures I've seen of myself is when I don't know the camera is snapping. Why is that? Is it the subject? Is it the photographer?

Here is a link to the wonderul, well researched article in the Toronto Star today: www.thestar.com/Business/article/533168 Not sure if that is how you do it, but that is the article in this rag today. This rag never ceases to amaze me with their hatred of the U.S., and Detroit. Anyway, here is the text of the email that I sent this ass-clown, David Olive: I used the description of: Toyota called: your check is in the mail, followed by, "I am speechless. Your meager understanding of the auto industry is breathtaking. I don't quite know where to start. I guess the part that angered me the most is where you give the illusion that Washington somehow gave Chrysler a gift back in '79. Are 'loan guarantees' a gift? Did Chrysler not pay it back, with interest, within 3 years? If you knew anything about banking, the sheer definition of a banker is someone who will loan you an umbrella on a sunny day, then yank it back at the first sign of clouds, to coin a phrase. How is GM or Ford supposed to exercise their 'turnaround' plans when all funding has dried up? Are the twin disasters of the oil bubble and the mortgage/banking crisis the fault of Detroit? No. Nor were the twin oil shocks of the '70s. Were lessons learned from the oil shocks? Indeed, U.S. oil consumption flat lined for over a decade after the '79 hostage crisis oil spike. Were the current horsepower wars of the past decade Detroit's fault? Who had the first 240 horsepower minivan? Toyota. Who just spend 1.3 billion dollars on a truck plant, deliberately placed in the heartland of the truck market of Texas? Would Wagoner or any of his cronies still have a job if GM's virtual deadlock on the large SUV market was not defended? Toyota and Honda do not answer to Wall Street, sir. Any VP who had proposed to spend $1 billion on a small vehicle (like the recently launched Cruze) in 2001 would have been summarily fired. Was the EV-1 project not investigated (and shelved) in an era of sub-$30 a barrel oil? Wagoner did have the foresight to drag Lutz out of retirement 7 years ago and put him in charge of product development. All the accolades and awards that GM has won in the past couple years are Lutz creations. Mulally has done the same thing over at Ford. The Cobalt XFE gets the same mileage as your precious Civic. Here are some facts that you conveniently left out: 1) Fact: GM, Ford and Chrysler still account for more than 50% of the sales in both our countries, and 70% of the auto-related jobs. Sure, Toyota opens a couple plants here and there, but the bulk of their parts (not to mention the far more important value-added jobs and intellectual property) all comes from Japan. If all the engineers, metallurgists, chemists and such are in Japan, where will your grandkids work in 10 years? Wal-Mart? 2) Fact: Jim Press, who ran Toyota for 2 decades in North America, and who is credited with building the Lexus brand, now openly admits that the Japanese government paid for the synergy drive development. Coupled with an artificially low yen, protectionist import laws in Japan, ability to borrow at 0% in Japan to finance their overseas operations, 'free healthcare' in Japan and a host of other advantages, is it any wonder that Japan Inc has been so successful in North America? Why is it that Toyota is not even in the top 3 or 4 in sales in ANY of the world markets, except North America? Perhaps your journalistic curiosity could be tweaked a bit there, no? 3) The catalytic converter and the crash test dummy are but two inventions of GM's that you conveniently left out. Didn't GM risk all in '71 by announcing the switch to lead-free gas? Weren't they the first all-line manufacturer in '93 to install ABS on all its vehicles? Wasn't GM the first to 'downsize' its full sized car in '77 - at great risk? Isn't Toyota and BMW scrambling to catch up in the areas of telemetrics? On Star has given GM a 10 year lead in this all important field. 4) What about the $24 million design and engineering studio GM built in Oshawa a few years ago? While Honda and Toyota slap together a few vehicles here, GM actually designed and engineered both the Equinox (as the upcoming fuel cell) and Impala (40 mpg in a 201" 6-passenger?) right here in Canada. I won't even get into the problems of a future President having to beg China or Japan to build tanks and troop transport vehicles for it in a future war. Wasn't Detroit the 'arsenal of democracy?' You were correct about one thing: Wagoner and the Board are fighting a multi-front battle. GM and Ford both build fantastic vehicles overseas (the Astra has been #1 in Europe for some time), but then GMNA has contracts and commitments (like over 1 million retirees) to answer to. Or would you suggest throwing them all to the wolves? GM is the #1 healthcare provider in the U.S. Honda has 200 retirees on the payroll. In an article covered in the Post on Thursday, it is estimated that within 3 years of GM and Ford going down, over 3 million jobs would be lost in the States alone and the loss of over 150 billion in tax revenue. Did Detroit make mistakes? Yes, they did. As much as I dislike Roger Smith's tenure, how could he have defied UAW contract demands at a time when GM commanded 40% market share and made billions in profits every year? If North America is going to have any kind of healthy manufacturing base, it can only do so with a healthy domestic auto industry. It is literally the backbone of industry. Any recover plan is going to have to involve better, fairer coverage by the media. News of the Toyota Tacoma's frame problems, Consumer's Report's mea culpa last year about ignoring problems with the Camry and Avalon and electrical problems over at Honda have gone completely unobserved in the mainstream press. How do you explain that? Both GM and Ford have exit strategies to this mess. The Chevrolet Volt (which has already been widely driven by media types in the U.S.) is within 18 months of full production. Don't believe it? Then why is Toyota cranking up their PR machine to oppose it? Hmmm? Every once in a while I make the mistake of picking up the Star and when I do, it never fails to remind me of why I cancelled my subscription 4 years ago, after 22 years of faithfully reading your paper." My apologies to you veterans who have heard most of this before, but clearly this so-called writer has not. The entire rag was filled with suggestions that Ford and GM be allowed, no encouraged, to die.

Or perhaps I know what I am talking about. :AH-HA_wink: I can't deny whether or not you had problems with the Alero. I probably sold more than 100 of them and I had a few customers bitch about the brakes (rotors). The fit and finish was shoddy, I will concede. BTW, nobody uses the handbrake in Ontario. It will seize, thanks to our salt. I've also had customers put 200k km on their Alero and buy out their leases because they loved the car. The Aleros were sold cheap as dirt. $400 a month leases for a loaded GLS back in '01/'02. That alone hits resale. A $400 lease on an Accord would've been plus tax and with money down; no leather, no roof, no 6 cylinder. I know, I leased Camries back then through our sister store. BTW, nobody uses the black book. What Honda shows you for your trade and what it is worth are 2 entirely different things. Or why else would Honda/Toyota salesmen clamor to get into used cars so they can 'make some money?' Yes, I took in a '97 Civic with 120 k km for $2,500 last week. Black book doesn't go back that far, BTW. Customer was PO'd because AutoTrader shows the same vehicle 'going' for $5k. Well, people can ask for any number they want, can't they? Doesn't mean they'll get it. Of course, a '97 Cavalier with the same mileage would be worth, maybe $500, but then it was $3,500 or so less to buy and has no timing belt that has been replaced. CR considers a $600 timing belt on a Civic to be 'maintenance.' Our customers freak at a $600 bill for anything in service. But all this pleasantry aside, if you hate GM so much (and it is clear that you do) why do you spread vitrol and anger on a GM fansite? I haunted ToyotaNation for about a month, two or three years ago, but realized I had nothing in common with those people and it was like a bad episode of the Twilight Zone. I hated my '87 Shadow, but have no desire to haunt MoPar sites, nor do I judge Chrysler today for the troubles my Shadow gave me (largely dealer related) 20 years ago. Just something for you to ponder, is all..............

Again, misinformed: even in it's last year, the J-cars outsold the Civic, but naturally the Sunfire/Cavalier sales were reported separately. Either they're bad rebadges or not. Depends on which side of the argument you're on. As a separate nameplate, yes, the Civic overtook the Cavalier in '99, but as I said, GM has more than one car on the same platform at the same price. In fact, the last sales stats I saw (about 2 months ago), the Cobalt/G5 weren't that far behind the Civic and were ahead of the Mazda 3.

By January all Silverado/Sierra (except the 4.3) will have the 6 spd. Right now, it depends on which model and which engine you order. Avalanches all come with the 6 spd now. As capacity allows, GM has been trickling down the 6 spd availability.

My greatest fear is the $65 a barrel oil puts Detroit back to sleep. Vehicles like the Volt will not be cost effective in a $3.00 a gallon world. At the risk of getting spit on, I thing Obama should hike gas taxes to be in line with the rest of the world (gradually, if that would soften the blow) and use the extra monies to fund alternate fuels, etc. to wean America off oil dependency. Canada's auto sales did just fine in $147 a barrel oil, and even now we are paying about $3.50 a gallon and auto sales were UP 1.4% last month. Taxes could save the day, BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE USED TOWARD TRANSPORTATION RELATED IMPROVEMENTS.

What a delicious irony that GM will be #1 in Russia and perhaps gone in America. If there is a God, she has a wonderful sense of humor.

I was never close to my father and he went under, shall we say, sudden and scandalous circumstances over 23 years ago. I can only imagine what you must be going through.

I already voted for GXT.

The Accord is an engine with a Hyundai wrapped around it. GM made us spend the entire day with the Malibu and the Accord. No contest. I could fill an entire page with how Honda is cutting corners, but none of that will matter now that Detroit is on the run. And if this generation of Accord is crap, just wait and see what lackluster products Japan Inc bothers to bring out if Detroit is gone. As long as people who know nothing about cars keep perpetuating the myth that Detroit builds crap, we are doomed to be a nation of Wal-Mart greeters. Every week I get people trading in Cavaliers and Malibus with 300k km on them - and that is harsh, Ontario winter kilometers, not vacation in Arizona mileage. As I've said before, if some clown will deliberately spend $5k more for an Accord than a Malibu, do you think he/she is going to admit they f$3ked up? No. Instead, we get whiners who had a 15 year old Lumina that had a light clip break and they kneel at the altar every night, hoping and praying that Detroit goes down. There are times when I wish a meteor the size of Texas would land right in the middle of North America so Earth can start over again. Maybe this time a more worthy species will rise to ascension.

...PSSST - you are the only one still paying.

For all those naysayers out there, GM has more than 20 of those fuel cell vehicles on the road (built right here in Canada.) They also have working mules of the Volt, too. Despite trolls claiming otherwise, both vehicles are in final stages of development. I understand that GM is having conversations with major providers about feasibility of having hydrogen fueling stations set up nation-wide. Of course, it will be quickly pointed out that GM isn't the only company with fuel cell vehicles on the road right now. :AH-HA_wink:

I'd appreciate it if you would stop trolling here as well. I re-read some of your posts last night and ever since you've joined C&G, all you have done is harp on GM. It's clear to me that you must work for a Honda or Toyota dealer. In all your posts, there has not been a single positive thing said about GM. Not one. In fact, the Volt terrifies you. You've been trashing the Volt more than Toyota has in Washington. If you can read, read yesterday's Post. If Ford or GM went down, the job losses (both direct and indirect) would be on the order of 3 million. Those are American figures, of course, but Canada's would probably be proportionately the same. Magna is a Canadian Company and it is also in trouble, having lost huge backing by a Russian investor. If Chrysler goes, there is a real possibility Magna would, too. The study cited suggests as much as 130 BILLION in tax revenue would be lost to the U.S. side of things within 3 years (the time period the study looked at.) We have to decide whether or not as a nation(s) we want to be in the auto business. The jobs Toyota and Honda create in Canada are strictly for window dressing. Any pretence at building vehicles here would be out the window with no direct competition from Detroit. GM has been retrenching since 2001, but it isn't easy untangling 100 years of job contracts and other legal entanglements. Vehicles like the Traverse, Malibu and CTS prove that GM is worth saving, even if that hurts your sensibilities, GXT. I say, bring back the Auto Pact.

This trucklet would sell well here.....................

The banks created this mess and it's okay to bail them out? If GM can no longer finance its customers because it cannot borrow money, is that necessarily GM (or GMAC's) fault? The money markets have dried up, my friend. If they don't free up soon, it won't be just Detroit that is going down. Right now, Warren Buffet probably wouldn't get approved for a loan.

... and how much money did Toyota get to open in Woodstock; a plant that is barely running with one shift these days? That's the trouble with big players playing States/Provinces against each other: the taxpayer is always the loser in the end. As long as Ontario whored itself out to Japan Inc. to get those precious jobs in Alliston and Cambridge, they were merely adding more nails in the coffins to jobs in Windsor, Oshawa and Oakville. Or what about the Korean transplants - which don't employ a single f'ing job in a factory in this country? Ditto for VW, BMW and the rest. GM and Ford have literally paid out BILLIONS in taxes over the past 90+ years. So what if they are going through tough times and need a hand. Besides, there is a big difference between 'loan guarantees' and subsidies. A loan guarantee merely allows free market cash to come to the rescue. Half the trouble with GM and Chrysler right now is that the banks aren't loaning money to anybody right now, let alone those who are in trouble.

The auto sector is more important to the Ontario economy than probably any state in the Union. The last figures I saw (2007?) Ontario 'built' more vehicles than Michigan did. Magna is one of the largest auto parts suppliers and one of the biggest Canadian companies - built on the success of the Big 3. Our proximity to Michigan and the 'rust belt' also means that our manufacturing base is very important. Unfortunately, so much of that has depended on our lower dollar (which was at par with the $US for the past year or so, until very recently) and on our 'free' health care. The one issue often overlooked by Americans is that ALL auto manufacturers are foreign to us. Although a strong argument can be made for the historical/investment ties that the Big 3 have made in Canada over the past 100 years, there are legions of liberal economists who would argue that Toyota and Honda's recent expansion into Ontario should be encouraged over any 'pandering' to the Big 3. There was yet another diatribe in the Toronto Sun yesterday that basically called GM a 'dinsosaur' and said let it die. I file that under one of the new, more self-centered categories of "What Have You Done For Me Lately?" They cited the upcoming Camaro as yet another example that Detroit 'doesn't get it.' Whatever. Nobody in Queen's Park (Ontario's capital buildings) complained when the Silverado crewcabs and Impalas were flying out the door with tons of overtime being paid to CAW workers in Oshawa, only 2 years ago. When I think of GM and bankruptcy, I think of what happened with Texaco. When Texaco filed for bankruptcy, they were forced to 'sell off' their Canadian holdings to appease stakeholders. Since Canada represents a puny portion (although still profitable) of GM's holdings (China is now GM's #2 market), I would think that would be a real possibility. Although we are told that GM is doing very well outside of the greater Toronto area, in this city it is a bloodbath. No less than about 9 dealers have closed in and around this city in the past few years. K-Mart also did the same thing. We no longer have K-Mart Due to our higher gas prices, what happens in Canada, generally happens south of the border in a few years. For example, the Civic has been the #1 selling vehicle here for a while; whereas, the F-150 stole the limelight south of the border. Hell, the Silverardo is the #4 selling pickup in this country! I think GM often treats us like the poor cousin (even though a Canadian-born is running GM's finances south of the border!), but Detroit should have paid more heed to what was or wasn't selling here 5 or 10 years ago as to a clue what might have happened in the Excited States. Opel product brought over and sold here 5 years ago would have postioned Detroit to be ready for any turn of the marketplace, rather than being caught flat-footed without competitive small cars just as the market for those turned up.

Wow, emotions run high - and I suppose that is a good thing. Frankly, the liberal side of me wants to believe that opening the floodgates to immigration is a good thing and that those coming here will see that the 'American' (or 'Canadian') Way is the better way. That is certainly the way I felt 20 years ago. I don't feel that way any more, and that is coming from both a gay person who is a minority and the partner of a recent immigrant. Oddly, many of our immigrant friends feel the same way! In fact, we had two Brazilian friends go home not too long ago, complaining that there were 'too many Asians' in Toronto. All I know (and I have posted this before) is that the internet, $5 phone cards and cheap air travel has diluted what it means to be 'American' or 'Canadian' these days. OCN, you refer to your German ancestors and what we don't understand is that 140 years ago they had no choice but to assimilate. When they left their homeland, they would never see it again. There were no phones, no internet and no possibility of returning. Immigrants today (for the most part) are a different breed. They are not commited to their new homeland; in fact, many readily admit they would prefer to retire in their homeland or even return their once they've accumulated enough money. My blood nearly boiled over a few months ago when I read an article about a Cuban expatriate who has lived in Canada for 40 years and he was rejoicing Castro's ill-health so he could soon 'go home.' Go home? This guy is a successful architect in Canada and has lived here 40 f'ing years, but doesn't consider this home? You guys south of the border can laugh and say that 'this isn't Canada,' but our problem is because there are too many different kinds of immigrants that simply don't get along with each other, let alone 'Canadians;' your troubles are going to be just as bad when in a matter of 25 years or so there are 100 million Hispanics, clustered mostly in a half dozen states and only 250 million 'others,' scattered across the other 40 odd states. One cannot safely assume they are going to become 'American,' not when entire neighborhoods - nay, cities become predominantly Spanish. Even in Toronto, there are entire neighborhoods where ethnic groups conduct their entire lives in their own culture. Once they reach a critical mass, they simply don't need the rest of us. This may sound like fear mongering, and I desperately hope I am wrong, but one of the advantages of being 47 is that I have seen the changes with my own eyes, and whether it is car related (like how awful Toronto's traffic is) or regarding the general decline of the world around me, there are some things that no study can quantify. Culture is emotional and unlike previous generations of immigrants that had no choice but to adapt, more recent immigrants don't have to. Only time will tell, but the scary part is that if I am correct, then by the time we realize what has happened, it will be all over.

GM does build better cars/trucks, but it will take time to convince the jaded public and with the U.S. recession looking like the worst in 25 years, GM may not have that time. I just spent the day yesterday with the Toyota Highlander and the Traverse. Seriously, there is no competition. The Highlander is a POS to the Nth degree, but it will still sell like hotcakes. Everything on the HIghlander was plasticky, cheap (we even managed to break the center storage unit for the middle row), the 3rd row was a joke, we couldn't even get a plastic cooler in the back behind the 3rd row. The Traverse is bigger, has more standard horsepower, gets the same fuel mileage as the smaller Highlander and has a host of features (like a split 3rd row) that the Highlander doesn't have - because Toyota doesn't have to bother. People will buy the Highlander in droves. GM has been doing all the right things for at least 5 years now, but the public doesn't care. Every time GM tries to get the dealers off the incentive drug, sales go in the toilet. I can see that was a mistake, getting customers addicted to the deal, rather than the vehicle, but I guess since '01 GM has been hoping things would turn around with the new product coming online and the sales would self-perpetuate. Unfortunately, that has turned out to be naive.

Nor do they rob liquor stores, knock up the neighbor's daughter and live in the basement until they are 35.

For the record, I think learning more than one language is a great tool to have. For one thing, it makes you understand your own better. I've been brushing up on my Portuguese once again because we are off to Brazil for a few weeks in February. I saw on the news last night that in New Mexico (a certain twisted irony in the name alone, I am sure) 40% of the registered voters are Hispanic. I am not against bilingualism on ballots, per se, but let us be clear on one issue: LANGUAGE IS MERELY THE FLASHPOINT TO THE MUCH GREATER ISSUE THAT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK OF. You guys south of the border only need to look to your northern neighbors to see where your country will be in twenty years: hopelessly fractured and in a downward spiral. The English/French divide that Canada has suffered for 200 years has created a wedge issue whereby since no one culture can dominate (as is in our Constitution), then all cultures are equally valid. This is creating an increasingly untenable situation with respect to the Aboriginals (who above all others lay claim to everything in Canada) and now to newcomers as well. We cannot defend Canadian 'culture' because we cannot define it. If we try, automatically Quebec is offended, then the Aboriginals weigh in and the entire discussion degenerates into a racist shouting match. Make no mistake, if the United States is not unified by one over-riding culture and sense of shared values, it will fall into the same trap that Belgium and now Canada are sinking into. Take a look at your population growth: in 25 years Hispanics will be nearly on par with the general 'Euro' population. All of you should be learning Spanish. It will be your official language in 25 years.

I am told that Toronto is a 'sophisticated' market. Translation: they'll buy anything foreign. Rosedale and Forest Hill are a sea of dark grey BMWs and Lexi. Too bad, so sad - they are going to be the first to lose their jobs as our banks/insurance companies get hit by the world-wide market implosion.