CARBIZ

It isn't just the factories that built the tanks and airplanes. What about the munitions, navigation systems, the metallurgists, etc.? If the American auto industry goes under and all autos become "imports" (except the assembly plants where doors are bolted on) then all the R&D and technology will go with it. We've talked about the television/electronics industry here before. Where are they today? Where are those research jobs? If NASA or the Navy wants to order 1,000 replacement flat screens for their new fighter jet, where will they get them in time of war? This is a domino effect of the likes America has never come to grips with before. And most buggy manufacturers got into the car business or were bought out by them. Those jobs, of which we are talking about here, merely shifted from state to state, not from Michigan to Osaka.

This is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If dumb ass idiots keep hearing this "sky is falling" doom and gloom they will stop buying GM and Ford. Chrysler was faced with the same problem in 1980 with all the bad news about being bailed out by Washington.

I can't imagine how hard it will be for those families who will see their incomes drop by half. It will be awful, to be sure. If America is to stay #1, then she will have to improve her PRODUCTIVITY. It doesn't matter how much people are paid, it has to be competitive and for the economy to grow productivity must improve. Put simply, that means allowing cheap labor in China to make plastic dolls because the value added to those dolls isn't enough to justify millions invested for machines and technology to build them here. America is at a cross roads. All around the world there are BILLIONS of uneducated, poor people who will work for $5 a day. To compete with those people, Americans will have to educate themselves to rise above those people. Gone are the days where the middle class will be dominated by assembly line workers, miners, farmers, etc. The middle class is and will be architects, machinists, lawyers, electricians, auto mechanics, etc. - professions that require skills and education that a person in Brazil or Mexico doesn't have access to. Personally, I think it will be a disaster if the American auto industry goes under because America needs the industrial base to protect herself in time of war; however, unless the auto industry finds a way to build cars competitively priced here than it will die. Economics are cruel.

Not being an Asian vehicle fan, I grudgingly admit the Xterra deserved this one. Chevrolet sorely needs a smaller truck to compete in this segment. The Trailblazer is a dog and the Equinox is going to die a quick death unless seriously freshened in 2007. The Torrent has killed sales north of the border. As we've discussed before, GM should be slapped for not making the Torrent a real Pontiac, rather than a rehashed Equinox. The Xterra appeals to the youth segment and I kinda like its squared off looks. It has a rugged, almost military look to it and it is well priced, too.

It isn't fair to compare Hyundai of today with Honda of 1987. It is safe to say that Honda enjoyed a better reputation even THEN than Hyundai does today. It is one thing to pay under $15k for a Hyundai, but $25k or MORE? And Honda at least had the foresight to spin Acura off as a new marque. I would like to think that there is some snob appeal to luxury cars - why else would people rush out and pay $100k or more for a BMW? What kind of snob appeal could you enjoy in a Hyundai? "Well, it is better than a Skoda?!" As for the warranty, well - that works both ways. For every person who might try on a Hyundai BECAUSE of its amazing warranty, there is another person who begs the question: "why does it need such an extended warranty."

Based on driving the 3.5 every day, it is more than fine. Love the gas mileage. For $25k (Can) there isn't anything that can touch this car. My only real complaint is the interior is too light.

What is really odious about this type of thing is that the executives' perks are based on the results that WERE posted. Although Visteon posted a loss, what would happen if they had posted a profit - would the executives be forced to give back their bonuses?

Did he say Blue Man Group? Oh, Bluewater Network! Oh, those guys. Never heard of them.

It is a very valid posting. All through the '60s and '70s, Toshiba, Hitachi and others received sugar importa quotas (what the hell does that have to do with buliding televisions?) so that they could import sugar, make money and export televisions to NOrth America at a loss. One by one, major American electronics manufacturers were run out of business. Zenith - to use one example, was the leading manufacturer of televisions in America. In 1977, Zenith had 22% of the television market in the States, employing 20,000 people and selling nearly a billion dollars (1977 dollars!) worth. Does anybody know of Zenith today? In 1961, Zenith tried to sell televisions in Japan. They enlisted two major Japanese trading companies, C.Itoh and Nichimen to help them market their televisions in Japan. Strangely, neither company was able to get permission from the Ministry of International Trade and Industry to export dollars to buy Zenith televisions. In 1975, 5.5 million Japanese sets were sold in Japan while only 11,000 American sets were sold there. By 1978, the imports were virtually shut out of the Japanese market. Does any of this sound familiar? MITI is God over there. Any American company wanting to do business has to go through them. Good luck. Why is it that not Ford, not GM, not BMW, not Fiat, not VW - nobody has cracked the Japanese market EVER?

Shayes, bad example. If the house next door was burning 230 times, you would pick up the phone because it could bloody well burn your house down with it! However inadvertantly, I think your metaphor works well here. If the American auto industry burns down, it may very well take YOUR house with it. This thread has been batted around here on C&G, as well as in the media. Japan Inc. does not play fair, plain and simple. If true, committed economic Darwinists want to see the American auto industry fail because they DESERVE to, perhaps they are right; however, I take the view that it is more of a failure of the American system of Too Open Markets. Toyota, Honda and the rest do not have to deal with VW, GM, Ford or Fiat in their own back yard. The Ministry of INdustry and Trade has seen to that. To draw on another analogy, one of the main reasons Fortress America was able to kick Hitler's ass was because their manufacturing base at home was unmolested while they were able to harass and destroy Hitler's. Much the same is happening with the auto industry at present day. Protected and coddled at home, Japan INc. is free to wage economic war around the world, and even end up looking like the good guys! I am not staying Toyota, Honda, etc. don't make good products. I am not saying that GM hasn't made any mistakes. But I am saying that Japan doesn't play fair. It never has. The so-called legacy costs that the Big Three must bare the brunt of are something that Toyota, etc. don't have to face. I don't think I am playing too heavy a hand by saying that if GM and Ford go down this time, it will be as much of an indictment of the American System as it would be the mistakes of Detroit's board rooms. If Washington doesn't wake up to the protectionist actions of Japan Inc., it will be too late. Or maybe it already is because Japan owns a big chunk of American Treasury bills. Something else Washington has sat idly by and allowed to happen.

Yeah, well, now that the Torrent is around to steal her Thunder, GM had better being planning a major refresh for 2007. The 2006 model has redesigned a/c controls and shrunken rear head rests. Big deal. Get rid of the ugly cloth. GM has a big hole at this time because we don't have a 7 passenger SUV that isn't a pig on gas. We need something to battle the Pilot, the Freestyle, Pacifica and others that have a 3rd row bench and are smaller than the Tahoe or Trailblazer EXT.

Some dealerships are probably just lazy with ordering. Management is often under pressure from corporate to order more 2006 models, but some General Managers want to wait and see how the post-employee pricing unfolds. Does GM concentrate deliveries closer to the factory where they are built, or do they spread them around evenly? I remember when the redesigned Silverado came out in 1999. I had a guy call from Sault Ste. Marie Ontario, calling us because we were (are?) one of the biggest dealers in the Toronto area. He wanted to know if we had any of the new Silverados because he had seen a whole bunch of them across the river in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. No, I said, we don't have any - even though the damned trucks had to be shipped past our door (they are built in nearby Oshawa) on their way to Michigan! Oh, and our CSI, has historically been pretty good. The local rep can have some pull, as would the dealer principal.

Lower sticker prices are a must. How many times does a customer see the sticker price and decide they can't afford it, not knowing that zero percent financing, stackable credits, etc. will lop off $6k off the price in some cases! Case in point: the 2005 Maxx has a "sticker" of $32,000 including DVD, sunroof, side air bags, etc. Yet, we are selling them for $25k and they get 60 months at zero percent. At the end of the day, that makes the Maxx cheaper than a base Camry - by far. Yet, while presenting the vehicle, the customer stares at the sticker and figures that $32k plus taxes and fees is pushing $40k and is way out of their budget. How many customers stroll by a GM lot on a Sunday and make a decision not to buy a vehicle based on the sticker?

I used to be a big socialist but as I get older (and gain wealth) my views are hardening. NObody deserves a free ride, but it strikes me that in this day and age medical care SHOULD be a right. How that is paid for is clearly a controversial subject, but the real problem is whether you want an elected official in Ottawa/Washington to make decisions about your health, or an unelected paper pusher at a private health center. Capitalism and competition sound great on paper, but we all know that corporations, as a general rule, will cut corners any way they can. (Insert your favorite corporate scandal here: Enron, Bhopal, Love Canal, Three Mile Island). Like it or not, the government is forced to intervene anyway. We also know that government pork barreling and graft sucks up a lot of money. Which is better? I, personally, am undecided. Both systems have pros and cons. Perhaps a hybrid system is the answer?

This thread has meandered back and forth between fantasy and reality. The REALITY is that Japan puts up so many roadblocks for foreign interests to sell or manufacture automobiles in that country that they are the only country in the world where foreign car sales are negligible. I am amazed that so few Americans know about this or care. In every other market in the world - whether Brazil or Germany or China or Thailand, there is healthy competition from automakers that represent all the major manufacturers. Japan is the only market (that I am aware of) that virtually prohibits foreign car sales. Even Russia's market is more open. Yet Washington ignores this even as Detroit goes down in flames.

Sticker prices on 2006 models have dropped, while content has increased - that much, at least, is true. 2005 models are irrelevant at this time because it only makes sense that previous year models need something to help move them. It is giving away CURRENT year product that hurts.

Do you think that 35 years ago Sony, Hitachi, etc. built better TVs, than Zenith, Philco, etc.? No, they dumped them on the American market while receiving sugar import quotas from the Ministy of Industry and Trade while at the same time restricting imports. One by one, all the American manufacturers went under or were bought out by foreign interests. Sound familiar?

Unfortunately, Canada is becoming a bit of a whore in this respect. Toyota just turned ground on an $800 million dollar plant in Woodstock and by the looks of things about a $120 million dollars of that is coming from the federal and provincial government. Prop up Woodstock and shut down Oshawa. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would make sense is if both Ottawa and Washington passed a law that forbade all states/provinces from subsidizing these welfare corporations.

Four or five billion is just a drop in the bucket. GM still has a lot of cash. Even if Wagoner was looking at bankruptcy as an option, he wouldn't tell the press, would he? This speculation is just bullshit. The media vultures are circling. They just love bashing stories to death. Even if it is a non-story. They don't report the news any more, they create it.

It doesn't matter which side of the debate you are on, it is very difficult for American companies to do business inJapan. Toys R Us and other companies are forced to form "partnerships" if they want access to Japanese markets. The real question here - and the point of this thread - is does anyone out there know exactly what duties Japan imposes on imports of American cars? I have heard that is basically doubles the price of a Mustang sold there. Is this true? And if so, what is Washington going to do about it, or are they going to wait until GM goes bankrupt and then wonder who will build the Hummer for them?

dont akus pepl on c@g by bng liers abut ther intlgens. i scorde 154 on manse test.

Insurance is a racket. Your driving record is now as important as your credit rating. I've seen clients have to go bankrupt over their insurance. One young woman saw her rate soar to $700 a month on her Sunfire after an accident that was her fault. Her lease was $300 a month. She cleared $1,500 a month at her job. What could she do? Yesterday, a 28 year old female client was quoted $176 for a new Cobalt. Not bad, I thought. Strangely, though, I had a guy who had a drunk driving conviction, and then he drove his 6 day old Silverado into the back of a parked bus, yet he was only paying $900 a month. I thougth that was more than a bit low.

What luxury. We are paying .93 a litre, which works out to $4.22 an Imperial gallon, even allowing for the smaller American gallon, that is $3.38. But we were paying $1.30 six weeks ago.

Pontiac, this is a GM fansite, so let me put this silly argument in terms you can understand: WE CANADIANS BUY A HALF MILLION GM CARS EVERY YEAR. COULD GM STAND TO LOSE THAT MANY SALES? End of discussion.

Well, well, we seemed to have touched a nerve here. I have always viewed Canada and the U.S. to be virtually the same place -cousins, if you will. We both have our fair shair of wing nut politicians. I have always voted Liberal, but I am aghast at the level of corruption in high places now; more aghast at the lack of alternatives to vote for! Canada and the U.S. are joined at the hip - like it or not. We have our Commie Pinkos and you have your KKK. We also need each other. A lot. The two hottest comodities of the 21st century will be fresh water and oil. Guess what, boys and girls - Canada has more of both than anybody else on the planet. Everybody thinks that America is blessed and they would be right, to a point. I believe Canada is also blessed, but we are too humble to admit it. As both China and Russia ascend the world stage, Canada is in the unique position of being central to all of the major world powers. We can ship and trade with each and we enjoy the mutual protection of all. So why would we need an armed forces? At the end of WWII, we had the 4th largest armed force in the world. But that was then? Other than internal disasters or for international peace keeping, why would we need a huge armed force? Who have we pissed off enough that they would want to invade us? More to the point: who would dare? If China invaded, the U.S. would have to intercede. If the U.S. invaded, China or Russia wouldn't allow it, and so on and so forth. Anyway, this is really digressing from the point of this thread, but I can't sit by and abide lies and conjecture.