CARBIZ

I know that at our store, management strongly emphasizes customer satisfaction. GM does their own polling, both in service and in sales. Again, this chart may be more reflective of Toyota's over all arrogance, both in the way the dealer body treats their customer (c'mon: you'll service here anyway because you MUST) and in the way that head office treats the dealers. At GM, the district manager has a fair bit of latitude to side with the customer on warranty matters. Does Toyota do the same? The way they handled the sludging problem 4 years ago suggests otherwise. With Toyota in expansion mode, perhaps their dealers are being dictated to. In our area, GM is being far more considerate of its dealer body; recognizing the fact that some are hurting badly and head office is trying to help out whenever they can. Generally, GM has always enjoyed the best relationship with its dealers. Far better than Ford, who have threatened to sue on many occasions. I think this attitude reflects down to the customer. Thanks for the chart, Ven. I'll find it useful.

I sometimes get tired beating a dead horse, but the same people on this site beat the same subjects to death that the biased media do. I wonder if they are one and the same people? It has never been argued here that the Malibu is class leading. Why should it be? It is a $18,000 (Canadian) car in LS (4 cyl) dress. The current Malibu is a much better execution than the last generation. It does a decent job all around of performance, ride, features and PRICE for its TARGET market. Tough $h! if it isn't a BMW 3! Am I a big fan of the Malibu? Not really. I"ve had two and they were both decent. I prefer the Impala. Is the Accord better? Yes, but then it is $5,000 more in my market. Tell me, big fans of EVERYTHING JAPANESE, how many $5,000 increments does it take to get to a Bentley? Because where does this end? And I don't buy this $h! about the Japanese having 20+ years of equity to live off - more like 20+ years of spoiled liberal arts grads pissed off at their parent's '84 Pontiac 6000 with an axe to grind. Are there any first generation Civics out there? No. But there are a lot of Chevettes on the road. Are there any mid-80s Tercels left? No. But there is a first generation Cavalier in my underground parking. The critics who do the carping about crappy American cars are overlooking one very big factor: GM and Ford pissed off MILLIONS of customers in the '80s with their crappy cars - I won't argue that. However, Toyota and HOnda pissed off proportionately just as many, but they sold a tenth as much through the '80s, so Japan Inc's equity is that they didn't sell as many cars back in the Bad Old Days and it went unnoticed that they rusted out and fell apart in 4 or 5 years. If one writer on this board cannot express an opinion about a car that he drove, and express his thoughts that it was a far better car than he'd hoped for, then these usual suspects are just sad. What kind of an agenda does one have to have to $h! all over someone else just because they say, "hey, I kinda liked this car?"

BTW, Stown'n Go ain't Chrysler's. They had a 2 year contract to use it and now other manufacturers will have it, too. Hopefully, GM will put it in the next generation BUT keep in mind the gas tank has to shrink by 4 gallons, the spare tire has to move - all is not warm and fuzzy with stowable seats.

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail. This guy is such an a-hole, I don't know where to begin... First: "higher priced model that includes the console." Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research. It has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose. F@#k. Not everything from the '60s/'70s was bad. Some people prefer the column shift. The woodgrain or brushed metal look is also no charge. Second: Business Fleet Magazine's car of the year. Well, I'd think so: you can get the Impala in either a taxi or police package with beefier seats, springs, etc. Again, this guy's import roots are showing. Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check. So much for unbiased journalism. As mentioned above, the tranny argument is a non-starter. Just see the fun Toyota is having with their 6 spd auto. GM has the best automatic and if the car can go 740 km on a tank of gas (as I proved recently) F##k the 5 spd! This guy is a jerk. The Truth About Cars is a propaganda rag for Japan Inc.

Personal attacks aside, the topic of discussion was the Accord and the Malibu. The Maxx article was predictable - I could have written it myself. NeonLX mentioned that Honda could put an H on a turd and sell it; then you dragged up an article that automatically puts Honda as #1. CASE CLOSED. Experts in the field cannot see beyond their own myopic view of the world. At ever turn we are being crushed by them. Experts have gotten us into Iraq. Experts tell us the automobile is evil, yet 76% of the people drive to work every day. Experts tell us immigration is good; then we have class wars in our streets. Experts are only protecting experts and protecting their own jobs. Under the category of you-can't-challenge-me-because-I'm-an-expert, the government hires these idiots and hides behind them WHEN IT SUITS THEM But I digress. You prove my point at every turn. Just once, I'd like to see an automotive expert drive a car and judge it by what it is supposed to do, how much it will cost to buy and who is going to buy it AND KEEP THEIR OWN DAMNED PREJUDICES OUT OF IT. And even when the Maxx doesn't disappoint them, they have to cleverly inject their poison into the article with wise cracks and cheap shots Until a thousand Avalons blow up on the same day at the same time, the media will apologise and mewl at everything Japan (and BMW) builds. They will keep telling us that GM and Ford are $h! because they won't build a 6 cylinder 6 spd manual mid size sedan and because the Cobalt doesn't have DVD navigation. And people will convince themselves that buying a Honda built in Ohio is the same as buying a Ford built in Michigan. And when we are all working at Wal-Mart for $5 an hour, who the F**k will be left to pay for these rags that pay these guys wages? [steps off soapbox, puts it away. Over to you for predictable response.]

Neon, you're not missing anything. It is the car "journalists" - a jaded lot by any standards, who don't get it. Let's look at the opening statement, dripping with disdain that sets the tone for the rest of the Maxx write up,"this isn't a performance vehicle." Then we move rapidly to the words "average" and my favorite..."couldn't it have a bit more personality?" These guys just don't get it. The holier-than-thou attitude that many of these so-called auto critics take is disgusting. I shouldn't just pick on car critics because lately I am getting suspicious about "professionals" from so many different vocations who protect their turf and bitch about their own petty fiefdoms. Give a guy a piece of paper from University and suddenly he is an expert. Studies are bull$h!, but you can yank out a study for nearly anything to support nearly anything. SIGH. We were just told that another myth has been dispelled. How is that so? From CR's sickening defense of the Avalon and other recent Toyota disasters to the New York Time's outrageous diatribes against GM - the evidence is all around us: Japan Inc. gets a free ride. And now, just because Hyundai has FINALLY raised itself out of the basement of the outhouse they have been mucking around in for the past 20 years, the automotive press is already salivating about the next Big Thing. The pack mentality of the press is odious. I JUST WISH THAT ONCE, ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT.

Evok, again you ASTOUND us with your amazing facts, taken out of context, of course. So, the Malibu's sales are down a WHOPPING 12% in the 6 months of this year while in its 3rd year of sales of this platform, against a brand new Impala, newer G6 and the all new Fusion - if we must compare domestics, at least. Oh, and GM is cutting back on fleet sales, which you jumped in with the Malibu at 50%. I don't see this as all bad. If the Malibu is only down 12% in this market, then I would say it was holding its own. Now, if GM lets this car go 5 or 6 years without a major refresh (like the last time) then shame on them. We are losing a lot of sales to the Impala, which is similarly priced in V6 form. Impala sales are up at our store. Anyway, as usual, the point is being lost as everyone WHO KNOWS BETTER are jumping in and saying that anyone who likes the Malibu is an idiot and should have bought the Camry because it is better. BULL$h!.

I'm with Blu on this one: those that own the Malibu generally like it. These people do not care about standard transmissions, soft plastics, etc. They like the fuel economy, the general ride and smoothness of the vehicle and, of course, the PRICE. You can get a Malibu around here for the price of a Corolla. Not a bad proposition, IMO

Interesting article. Frankly, there is so many things wrong with the way the dealer body is set up that to try and fix the problem would make a GM-Nissan merger look like a picnic. 1. WHY SHOULDN'T ALL VEHICLES OF THE SAME MODEL BE SOLD FOR THE SAME PRICE? This one makes sense to me, but as market share drops, dealers are only too eager to cut each other's throat. Some customers just love to haggle, but wouldn't recognize a deal if it bit them! For some stupid reason, consumers groups will sue a dealer body if they do try to maintain prices at a certain level. 2. It is true that most dealers are losing money these days. I was told that less than half of the GM dealers in the Toronto area are making money; that only two Chrysler stores are making money. 3. Consumers have become jaded about discounts. If we knock $1,000 off the price of a demonstrator, they are unmoved. 4. Customers lie/salesmen lie. That is a big mess. When a customer tells you they will be back after lunch, then go straight to another dealer and buy the vehicle for $5 a month less from a friend of yours and he calls you to thank you for the deal - well, that environment isn't conducive to good customer relations. If market share is down by half, then it only stands to reason that half the dealers need to go. Until that happens, dealers will continue to be desperate, customers will sense that blood is in the water and it will be a spiral downward. Then Toyota can step in, take the best locations, the best dealers, thus speeding GM and Ford's demise. OH, IMO, IT DOESN'T HELP THAT MANY DEALERS OWN MORE THAN ONE MAKE. THAT CREATES HUGE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND DISLOYALTY, IF YOU ASK ME.

None of this matters because: a) the 3.5 is a pushrod engine not up to the snuff of the far superior Japanese engines in the Camry, Altima, etc. b) electric steering is a BIG no, no - you must feel every crack on the pavement and put down your slurpy when you turn a corner! c) too much hard plastic d) are you high? the Malibu only has FOUR speeds and isn't even available with a manual transmisson Just thought I'd say that................................otherwise, good write up!

Socialists point to this type of corporate opportunism as the Achilles heal of Capitalism. Capitalism is a good thing when it results in greater competition, because the theory goes that this then leads to innovation and greater productivity. However, at its core, capitalism really is about greed and how enough money never really is. Isn't Kerkorian nearly dead? How much money does it take to make someone retire to a golf course?

Why does the Durango exist, anyway? The Grand Cherokee is so much nicer of a vehicle. The Durango just has that FUGLY, over the top Dodge styling - why make a cheap plastic grille 3 feet high when you get make it 3 feet high? My opinion of the BMW 3 series has been told here already: it's the perfect car for those who think they've arrived.

It's very funny that you would mention Sony and betamax. I owned two video stores for 11 years: 1985 to 1996. Sony invented the betamax in 1975. It was superior in every way to VHS, which was introduced by Matsu$h!a. It had fewer moving parts, the load mechanism was simpler. It resulted in fewer "eaten" tapes. But Sony got greedy and only licensed Hitachi and, I believe Toshiba, to sell beta. Matshu$h!a was clever and licensed everybody. Eventually, the market swamped beta with VHS. By 1986, beta was dying everywhere. I never even opened with beta in my main store in 1985. We also sold VCRs in my stores. And even then, in electronics, consumers didn't GIVE A RATS ASS about 4 heads versus 2 heads (unless they watched a lot of pornos! LOL) or metal chassis versus die cast chassis versus stamped chassis - all they gave a damn about was the price and how pretty it looked. Of course, later when it ate a $100 movie and they were charged for it, well they cared. I would naively spend 45 minutes showing a customer why the Electrohome was better than Sharp, then the customer would go up the street and buy the crappy Sharp unit from Canadian Tire because it was $35 cheaper. Some things never change.

Sir, if I survived on customers who walked in, I would starve. No, I mine my own customers, I've run ads in novel places such as the gay press. I get a lot of referrals from our Toyota stores. And I do have a life outside of my job.....at my gym, at the gay business association that I belong to...thru my nephew's soccer league...... Maybe only the consumers in Southern Ontario are stupid, then? Or are you insulting Chevrolet customers in general?

IGNORANT STATEMENT? Sigh. I have a bit of a reputation around my dealership for being a motorhead, but I can assure you that the two top sales guys know NOTHING about cars and don't even like them. They could sell an Eskimo snow. They can bamboozle their customers with BS, side step serious questions and still get the deal. Educating the customer is a mistake. One thing I have learned, and that is that trying to explain active handling, VVT, the difference between AWD and 4WD, etc. is just a ticket to NO SALE. Customers get confused and a confused customer is a customer who will have to go home and "think about it." Keep it on track and off complicated discussions. Occasionally, just occasionally, a customer will surprise me with genuine interest in the technical aspects of the car and it is refreshing. What GM hasn't learned until recently, is that 6 years between refreshes and gaping gaps in plastic panels (like on the Alero) was unacceptable. DOHC or pushrod, 4 spd or 5 spd - these things only matter to engineers and people who think they are engineers. What a consumer cares about is whether the car will start, put them in the poor house with repairs, look good in their driveway and not kill them at the pump. If some fat, balding guy thinks he looks good in a $65,000 sled with 19" wheels, 400 hp, active handling, 18 spd manual transmission and 5 sunroofs - well, that is good for him. But I doubt even he would be able to drive the car the way it was designed, or be able to explain the 4 stroke combustion process in an engine: things that only matter to engineers and the hacks at C&D.

The Impala has side curtain air bags standard on all models. The LS/LT don't have standard ABS because GM already walked that line for 10 years and nobody gave a damn then. Besides, the Allure (of whatver it is called down south) has ABS standard, as it should. The problems all started when Chevy introduced the Caprice in 1966, to compete with Ford's LTD version of the Galaxy. Money was to be made by throwing carpet on the kick panels of the door and fancier vinyl seats, then the race was on in price and toys. At $23k, the Impala is about $2,500 less than a base Camry and although they are similarly equipped, I'd take the 3.5 6 cyl over a 4 cyl any day.

Well, then don't buy a Camry....The Impala's interior dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the Camry, so piss off about the limited rear leg room...and the big overhang gives the Impala a huge trunk...also, much bigger than the Camry...so I don't see where anyone who would CONSIDER an Impala to give a damn. But when the media exercises their agenda and moans and whines about stuff that you just mentioned, then some members of the public begin to wonder if maybe that should be important to them, too All of this stuff matters in an Audi or a CTS, but not in an Impala or Camry, is my point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an Impala's handling or ride. I much prefer it over a BMW 3 series ...that is my opinion. I have no illusions about driving at 120 mph or driving on switch backs in northern Italy. But when I drive to my cottage and set the cruise at 120 km/hr, I want a quiet engine, smooth ride with all my junk in the back and will go 720 km on one tank of gas, and at a price that is going to leave me some money to buy a new boat lift next year.

Again (deep breath) WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS??????? Let me see, when is the last time a customer climbed under the body of an Impala and declared: "Lands Sakes, Carbiz - that's ancient architecture under there!" Maybe the pinheads at MT or R&T, but who else cares? If the car does what it is supposed to, is affordable and reliable - who cares? Tyranny of the Enthusiasts. That is my new catch phrase.

We should be clear that there are really two sets of fleet buyers. The first being the (evil) rental companies and the (good guys) being the large companies like Coca Cola, UPS, etc. that may need cars and trucks for their employees/agents. I don't know what the actual numbers break downs are, but I suspect that the damage to image and resale value is being done by the 6 month old rental returns that only have 12,000 miles (edited for my American cousins) on them - these are the real evil, if you will. I don't think that 25-2004 Malibus that are sold by a coffee maker in Maryland are going to destroy the Malibu's trade values.

As the tide washes back and forth over the Civic/Cobalt argument, my main point has been ignored totally: I am judging the vehicle for whom it is intended to be sold to, at prices they can afford. If this were not true, then I would suppose everyone would be driving something like an Audi Quattro or BMW 7 series - but PRICE does matter, doesn't it? Could GM have spent $50 more on interior trim, or $100 more on a multi-link rear suspension? Of course! Should she? That is debatable. Honda has produced a vehicle that it believes its customers will PAY for. It has designed a vehicle that the critics will vote as the best because they are all snobs and would rather be driving a BMW anyway. Has it built the best possible car at the best possible price for the average small car buyer in North America? In my opinion, no. Now, before you jump in and throw sales figures at me as proof that I am wrong, I would add that because Honda has built this vehicle for the car critics to approve of, a goodly chunk of the average consumers who otherwise DON'T GIVE A DAMN are swayed to buy (or probably, lease, because they are so damned expensive) the Civic because of those praises. In my job selling the Cobalt against the Civic, it is my job to point out that in EVERY DAY driving, the Cobalt is a better product. Pouring rain and your arm is full of groceries? YOu can pop the trunk from 20 feet away, not fumble for the keys like in the Civic. Every car maker has to make compromises and decisions based on budgets, deadlines and market priorities. These technical battles that we enjoy throwing around here on C&G are really beyond the scope of the average consumer: they don't know and they don't care. They want something reliable, cheap, easy to maintain and that has features they can use. Screw the DVD Nav (who the hell needs that in a $15K car?????) and screw the car mags for confusing the issue that somehow a compact car in this class should somehow have to compete with a BMW 3 and if you can't afford to drive one you are a loser!

I wouldn't be popping the champagne just yet. Even with the rash of growing pains, until the apologists at CR and other major media outlets stop justifying and "spinning" what is happening over at Toyota, it will mean nothng to the general public or to sales. Any Business 101 course will tell you that it is easy to bake the same bread over and over; it is much harder to keep the same consistency when you switch to muffins, croissants and buns. Look at what GM really built in the early 1960s, at its zenith: one type of Chevy (and the Corvette), one type of Pontiac, one type of Buick, etc. Remember: the Impala, Biscayne, etc. were all just window dressings of the same vehicle. Then, as the '60s progressed, they added the Corvair, the Tempest, then more vans and more 4X4s - well, we all know where that has ended up. Yet, GM isn't selling any more cars than it did 45 years ago, just lots more flavors to make the same volume. Is it any wonder the troubles began to start as GM added more models? Fast forward to the 21st Century: Toyota, awash with media accolades and rapid growth, has also branched into many brands and models. Each layer of complexity brining their own challenges and surprises. Welcome to the real car world, Toyota.

O.C. wants to fight with everyone on this. I'll tell you where I get my standards: in my father's '69 Chrysler 300 with the TNT package, Michelin radials and front disc brakes - all cutting edge 35 years ago. I think BMW is crap, plain and simple. I don't want to feel every pothole, frost heave and crack in the asphalt. 90% of the motoring public can't drive these vehicles anwhere to within half of their capability anyway. The media baffles people with their total BS about G-forces and all that crap, WHICH may be important in a Porsche or a Ferrari, but not in a luxury car. I like big cars. The only CARS I would consider right now are the 300, Dodge Magnum (I have a dog!), Impala, maybe Fusion. I am not in Cadillac's snack bracket, although the CTS is in my range, I would rather go for size. The Lincoln MK, or whatever the hell they are calling it, is mighty nice, too. I, personally, would not buy the DTS, but I am also only 45. Cadillac and Lincoln need their barges to keep the MILLIONS of old farts out there that remember the glory years of the '60s and they legimately want a vehicle that reminds them of that.....or else why would they pay $100k for a 1959 Biarritz??????

Somewhere in the middle, there must be an answer. Getting proper medical attention in the 21st Century has got to be a basic human right. C'mon, we're not cave dwellers! We don't just leave one of our clansmen behind because he broke his leg. I think we're better than that. But I do have to agree people need to take responsibilty for their own actions. Although no government would dare to outright BAN smoking, by degrees the government will make it unattractive, like they are here in Ontario. (You now cannot smoke within 30 feet of a business, you can't smoke in any public space, in any bar or restaurant.) Perhaps a hybrid system where clinics have to compete with each other for your business. I see a lot of waste in our current health system. And how many people go to the hospitcal for every sniffle because they aren't paying for it? Canada's healthcare system has been largely based on an honor system, whereby doctors present their bill to the government and the patient never sees it. I suspect the abuse of this system is spiralling because doctors know they can get away with it. And the unions. The nurses and technicians spend more time on procedural paperwork and safety analyses than they do attending to patients!

That's what I said to our dealer principle a few months ago when he asked me about advertising in the gay press. I said, why bother? Gays don't buy Chevies, plain and simple. Pontiac has some interest, but not Chev. Most of my friends (those that have cars and don't eschew them because they "rape the environment") rattle around in Mazdas, Nissans and Hondas. The HHR may see a glimmer of hope.

GM already has amazing, small cars that do well overseas in what Opel and Vauxhall sell. GM does not need small Renaults as much as Renault needs access to GM's dealer network. Why is this guy chastising GM for bringing out the Tahoe in this market? Although he throws GM a bone by adding that these products were planned three years ago, the real fact is GM owns the large SUV market and pundits would be trashing GM two years from now when other makes had overtaken the aging Tahoe: damned if you do, damned if you don't. I just don't think GM needs this kind of diverson of resources and energy when things seem to be bottoming out. What is K really up to? I am becoming increasingly wary of his true motives.