CARBIZ

Although I know it is opening a can of worms, Saturn really is a waste. GM should bring over Opel's product exactly as is, but if Saturn gets it that will have an impact on both Pontiac and Chevrolet. Buick can be positioned safely above Chev and below Cadillac, but Pontiac and Saturn are just going to get in each other's way. The Torrent would have been a great refresh of the Equinox. The G6/Malibu is great, but the Pursuit/Cobalt is a travesty.

He does raise a few valid points. Ever since the Chevy II and the Caprice edition of the Impala, it has been down hill. Fragmentation and overlap. Look at the model changes of the '60s. Who could afford that today? FWD, RWD, AWD - where does it all end? Each of GM's divisions cannot be all things to all people. Smaller manufacturers are cutting niche markets and doing those markets better. Death by a thousand cuts. Sloan could never have imagined the wagon, the SUV, the mini-ute, the sport sedan, the minivan, hybrids. YIKES.

First of all, we are both wrong: the hp rating is 126 and 122 lb ft torque. I guess 118 must have been last year. In any event, we have no way of knowing whether it was a manual tranny (doubtful since most are sold with automatics) or not. Secondly, I don't see how climbing a steep hill has anything to do with automatic versus manual. This wasn't a race. Two cars were climbing a hill and the man claimed the Impala could't catch the Corolla. The point is that the entire idea of a Corolla outdistancing an Impala LTZ on a hill is so preposterous that the letter shouldn't even have been printed, EXCEPT that it serves the agenda of the Toronto Star. Obviously, if this was the only incidence there would be no reason for my "over reaction;" however, the Star has been so outrageous over the years that Bob Lutz himself challenged them to a duel 3 years ago when the Star trashed the Grand Prix so badly that someone in Detroit heard about it. The resulting 2 full page retraction that the paper was forced to print was a thing to behold. Unfortunately, it hasn't deterred the editorial team of theWheels section. Probably because their check from Toyota depends on it.

Perhaps because the Japanese were nearly bombed into the Dark Ages 60 years ago, they are used to suffering and sacrifice: something we fat, lazy North Americans should learn from. You don't see Japanese buying every American or European car in sight. No, in fact the average Japanese citizen sacrifices (in the form of higher food prices and a nearly bankrupt banking system) so that Japan Inc can continue the war overseas. Wouldn't it be nice if GM could borrow at nearly 0% to fund its overseas expansions? Wouldn't it be nice if GM had a dollar that was worth less than a half a Euro to help with exports? [shakes head] We won't learn and neither Washington or Ottawa will wake up. Maybe MacArthur was right in giving the Japanese a "hand up" 60 years ago, but it is time someone woke up and told them to fight on a level playing field.

Major newspapers do everything by committee. The fact that the Star allowed this to go to print clearly indicates some sort of agenda. My grandmother would know that a Corolla is not going to beat an Impala on a hill, but the point is rather the agendas, if any, of some of the major press against the Big 2.5. We see it all the time when they do a write up on a domestic that they actually like, they can't resist slamming it somewhere or at least pointing out that a Honda or Toyota choice would be better. I am overly sensitive to this issue because I am growing increasingly concerned about the power the media holds on MOST issues. They no longer report the news, they create it. And don't kid yourself, the same mindless saps that walk into a dealership clutching their beloved CR magazine WILL believe this BS. There are a lot of those saps out there; otherwise, the Camry would not be the #1 selling car.

I wonder if Bush has a Sequoia on his ranch........................?

PolishKris, I suppose you actually BELIEVE a Corolla can beat an Impala LTZ on a hill? If so, I want the number of your drug dealer because you are smokin' good stuff! LOL You don't have a problem with the largest newspaper in the country printing this sort of crap? I mean, even though you're a rice humper, you gotta laugh at the total BS of it all!

I knew I shoudn't have read the Wheels section of the Star before I'd had my first drink of the day, but.............. Just because the Impala is selling well and has won praise from some members of the media, the Toronto Star had to publish something to drag it down. After all - now that GM is making money again, Toyota may have to cut back on its payments to Mark Richardson, the so-called editor of the Wheels section. So today they printed a letter from one Robert Reid of Oshawa (some coincidence there, I think) who rented an Impala in California recently. Other than bitching about the mirrors being too small and other nitpicks, I will quote the section that made me hurl the paper against the wall: "Next day we drove I80 to Lake Tahoe. Over the Donner Pass, the car was really struggling on the long grades. I tried to keep up with a Toyota Corolla but he was long gone as I climbed to the summit." WTF?????????? And do you want the punchline? He pops the hood and discovers the 3.9 under the hood!!! He was in an LTZ! Do they even use those as rentals? Is this guy high? Why would the Star even print this garbage, even if this a-hole does exist and even if he did actually write this letter. A Corolla? What a happy coincidence for the Star. A 242 hp V-6 bested by a 118 hp 4 cylinder??? I"ve driven the Corolla and it can't even get out of its own way on a hill. Did Robert have 5 of his fat, white trailer trash family members in the Impala with him and a trunk full of lead? Was the Corolla driven by Twiggy herself? What absolute garbage. This is the $h! that we deal with up here, right in the back door of GM in Oshawa. If I was in charge of marketing in Oshawa, I would yank every f'ng ad out of this rag and NEVER advertise there again. I feel dirty just handling the Wheels section. Gotta go now and have a shower.

Well, it would seem that 2005 was GM's annus horriblis and 2006 could be Toyota's. Seems quite of wierd that the Auto Gods peed all over GM one year and then just when Toyota appeared to be having the last laugh, the wrath of the Car Gods turned to them. It remains to be seen, however, if these recalls will turn the tide at media outlets such as CR and the Toronto Star, who appear to be on Toyota's pay roll.

Why put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after that?

Just to wade into the fray here.... Astro customers were a fairly loyal lot. I have customers who bought a new one every 4 or 5 years going back to the '80s and really liked them. The 4.3 must have something going for it. Don't take my word for it, ask Mercruiser because their 4.3 V-6 is the same engine design and they would know a thing or two about reliabity and dependability. The Astro was allowed to wither on the vine, for sure. They were tough, reliable but gas suckers. I considered one in late '97 when I wrote off my'91 Caprice, but I chose the Blazer instead, mostly because I didn't need the size, didn't like the small footwell for the driver and my (then) partner threatened to leave me if I bought it. However, to tow my 3,000 lb boat, there weren't many choices then. FWD sucks for hauling a boat out of the water. I know because I watched a guy in a LHS have his wife and daughter sit on the hood because the front wheels spun while he tried to pull his boat out - and it was the same size as mine! LOL Just my two cents. A lot of plumbers/electricians are sobbing now because the Astro is gone.

But there are really two sets of customers out there: the Cash Customer and Everybody Else. The CC can save $5-7k on a used vehicle because he/she is paying cash. EE can save $5-7k on a used vehicle and then watch as half of that goes back to the bank in the form of interest charges. Depending on which type of customer the person in front of you falls into, they are either a new or a used customer. A new Malibu at zero percent is most likely a better over all deal than a 2006 used one with 20k on it at 8%! It just depends on the situation. Although it is true the dealer can make more on used vehicles, it isn't really the 1 year old daily rentals that are the cash cows - volume, yes, but not necessarily profits. A savvy customer can shop a used 2006 Malibu as easily as a new one, since most dealers would have several on the lot in different colors. If a dealer is lucky enough to be the only one to show up to an auction, then he can get a good deal by buying the vehicle for cheap, but that doesn't happen very often. This is one area where the imports are actually the robbers. Our sister Toyota store makes nearly double per unit on their used car side than we do, yet we make more on the new car side than they. We are more likely to make more profit on a 2000 low mileage LeSabre than a 2006 used Malibu.

The Lib-left eco-loonies that have run Toronto (into the ground) for the past 35 years put a moratorium on tall buildings in the mid-70s. Most of the 50+ storey towers were built in a building boom in the late '60s/early '70s, then nothing. We went through a "tall is bad phase" for a couple decades. Now, suddenly, the eco-Nazis have decided that Canada is running out of room and "tall is good" again, as long as it means saving the migrating path of the peoni-moths (?) There are no less than 15 buildings under construction taller than 45 floors, including two towers in Missisauga of 50 and 56, and an 80 storey hotel downtown. I think tall is good, but without the infrastructure (highways/subways) to support this tall building boom, Toronto with a measly population of 5 million in the greater area will have all the problems of New York with 20 million. Now that is progress!

What? I'm only 45!

Exactly. Everyone (including these billboards) focuses on the number of factories and assembly jobs, but it is the value added jobs that really count - and most of those are definitely in Japan for Toyota and Honda. Another thing often conveniently overlooked by Japanese apologists is what would happen to the intellectual property if GM closed up? You know, silly things like patents and trademarks. If all American technology gets off-shored then all future ownership and innovation will also be done over seas. People need to consider that when they proudly buy their Honda built in Ohio.

I am 29 and a few months...............196 of them!!! LOL ARGH.........AM I THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS BOARD WHO CAN REMEMBER THE '70S???????????

Wow, this guy is a genius. Imagine selectively bragging about selling GM stock at $35, then cleverly pointing out that it bottomed out (like 8 months ago!) at $18, but conveniently ignore the fact that it is back up over $30. Glad he is not my advisor!

I've driven the Yellowhead highway from Winnepeg up to Edmonton and it was two days of NOTHING. And it was 105 degrees of the driest heat I"ve ever experienced! Then I drove back through Alberta and down then back via S. Dakota and although the red soil was kinda neat, it was just as flat and boring - but at least you don't have to content with boulders rolling on the highway like you do in Northern Ontario or British Columbia! We live in a pretty neat continent guys and gals. I"ve driven most of it and it is amazing how in a few hours the scenery can change completely, not to mention the climate!

Your local Lexus dealer probably uses the same after market supplier to repair/replace their electronics, too. It is a highly specialized service and there are only a few authorized repair places around that will go to the dealer and fix/replace the units. The dealer's themselves don't usually service the units. It is outsourced. I've seen this problem before and it usually happens with an all new vehicle or an all new feature because nobody has stocked the replacement units yet. It is unfortunate if you are one of the first to have a problem. We had a similar situation with a LCD screen in a Venture and took one out of a van in the show room to replace the customer's unit - at considerable expense and inconvenience to us, but at least we had that option available. DVD Nav systems are far more complex. This is the problem that the service industry every where is experiencing. As hard goods become more and more complex, there are bound to be problems. As with everything in life, people are becoming more impatient and are demanding more. I had a customer argue with me that the brakes on his Intrigue should be cheaper and last longer than the brakes on his Tempo because the Intrigue was a "better" car. I tried to explain to him that that has nothing to do with it. The brakes on the Intrigue were far more complex and would, therefore, be more expensive. He thought I was nuts. My job can be tough, but I would never EVER want to work in service.

"Also and I am speculating on this, for the top brands on this list, there should be a lot of repeat business and these customers have build [sic] up a long standing relationship with the dealer over the years." Here, here. Well put, because the one truth I have learned in my 25+ years of customer service is that older clients will complain and they will notice, but if they've been dealing with same dealer (or service advisor, etc.) for years, they get treated better - they are known! We get lots of them sitting in our lounge and they hang out, drink the free coffee and know most of the guys and gals by name. Yes, they do take the time to fill out the survey, that I believe is true, too. That also helps to explain VW's poor standings: the younger people that lease these are shocked when the car doesn't live up to their expectations and more shocked when the dealer doesn't hop-to when they walk in the door!

O.C., actually we are in complete agreement. I talked to a GM supplier who came to our dealer a couple years back to do measurements on a live Colorado (they were to supply mud flaps, or some such) and he lamented about GM's design changes and how the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. I think right on C&G we are hearing from a lot of the GM talent and what they wish would change. And you're right: Europe and South America build some pretty nice GM vehicles that I wish were sold here. But I think (hope?) GM has finally gotten religion. One example of this is that 4 or 5 years ago all the comparisons GM was doing in our training exercises was Chevy against Ford or Chevy against Jeep. I was screaming at the trainers 5 years ago to F#@k Ford and Chrysler, that I wanted to see comparisons with Honda and Toyota. Finally, that is what they have been doing now for the past year or so. We now do comparos of the Cobalt and Civic, not Focus. Perhaps we are not so far apart. Perception versus reality is the real challenge, for sure. GM's cars have come a long way in the past 2 or 3 years. Do they have further to go? Well, wouldn't we all want the Malibu and Impala to be better? Yes! This Malibu to the last is a quantum leap. Against the Accord or Camry? Not an entirely fair comparison (price!) but one that some consumers are making, to be sure. Here's hoping that the next Malibu leapfrogs the Camry and Accord but doesn't forget the minions who don't want to spend $30k on a V-6!

O.C., look it up, the seats in the Malibu come from France, the same manufacturer that supplies the Vectra. Siegen, of course it is my personal observations. I said there is a 1983 Cavalier in my under ground garage that someone is still driving. I remember 6 years ago considering to buy a 1985 era Tercel hatch back and was warned by 3 differernt garages to steer clear because all of those Tercels had serious rust problems with the lift gate and I wouldn't be able to find one at the wreckers. In Ontario and the nothern seaboard of the U.S. where we use a lot of salt in the winters, rust is a big problem. It is rare to see any vehicles older than 15 years up here, but the Japanese of the '80s were the worst. GM is losing money in North America because the union gets $17 million worth of Viagra, because there are, like, 100,000 people on pension and because Fiat got a $2billion dollar kiss off last year. It has nothing to do with the Malibu. The Impala is selling fantastically well. Considering the neglect GM gave their cars from '95 to a couple years ago, we should be glad the hemmoraghing isn't worse. Lutz can only be in so many places at one time! We could debate this until the cows come home. That is the fun part of C&G. I just wish you Japanese apologists would come up with something original once in a while. Or at least try to be objective.

......oh, and I guess the other 50-60k Malibus sold to fleet must have been junked after the first year because NOBODY bought those either. [Well, if other's can post 8 times to try and get out what they want to say, so can I....]

Nothing gets through to you two does it? It is too bad the Malibu doesn't live up to YOUR vaunted standards. Enough people like them that it keeps the factory running. You conveniently ignore points brought up by other people that you don't want to hear. You grudgingly admit the car has been reliable. That must have hurt. WHAT PART OF $5,000 DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??? NOT EVERYBODY HAS $5,000 TO BUY AN ACCORD. The Malibu is filling that niche nicely, thank you. You can't simply say the Accord/Camry is better unless you acknowledge that for FIVE THOUSAND F'ING DOLLARS THEY HAD BETTER BE! Or are you too snobby to admit there are poor people out there that need a reliable car that is under $20k (Canadian figures) that HAPPENS to be a GM product. Does that stick in your craw? Keep you up at nights? The seats are fine in the Vectra, but not good enough for you apparently. What a simple world it must be where you guys live. When someone comes into a Chevy show room the Malibu is the only car they have. There is nothing else. There is no Epica, no Impala. The customer can't go down the street and buy a G6. NOPE. They have to buy a Malibu. Geez. And this is the 3rd year of the body style, against some newer competition. And if you want a nicer interior, buy the damned SS, which is still only the price of an Accord V-6 and will blow the doors off it. It's like a broken record around here. You guys remind me of the Argument Clinic of Monty Python fame. Every time someone says they like a GM vehicle (like NeonLX), you gotta automatically pee all over it.

I don't call Business Week MAINSTREAM press. And I also don't consider the BUSINESS section of the newspaper as mainstream, either. When GM screws up, the papers put it on the FRONT PAGE. When Toyota has front wheels falling off its SUVs, it gets buried in the business section. I may actualy pick up the next few CR mags to see how they spin this. There certainly was no "maintstream" media coverage of the horspower OOPSIE that Toyota and HOnda got away with. Of course, Torontonians must be illiterate and stupid, because nobody I have asked has heard about the recalls.