CARBIZ

I didn't realize that WWIV had already broken out on another thread. Now I am typing this from my bunker and the time release doesn't go off for another 3 months!

I wouldn't even dare respond to this one! [ Runs into underground fallout bunker and hides]

There are no more free rides. GM does not pay for the gas up here. When the vehicles arrive on the lot they probably have about 1 1/2 gallons in the tank. The car may have cost you $30,000, but that is not how much the dealer made. If the dealer makes $1,000, has to pay the clean up guy, PDI guy and the salesperson, plus keep the lights on and the taxman happy, how much money to you think there is left over for a full tank of gas? (And in Canada, that can be $60 on a Malibu!) I agree that the perception isn't great, but if the dealer swallowed $50 a car, that would be a lot of money over the course of the year.

Well, you guys don't get the Optra 5 or Optra wagon south of the border, but they are selling decently here. The wagon is a true wagon, not a wannabe wagon like the Maxx. My only complaint with these vehicles (Aveo included) is the absolutely HORRIBLE transmissions on these cars. The Malibu 4 cyl gets better gas mileage than any of these vehicles. If GM is going to redo these cars in '08, they need to do something about the power trains, or Hyundai is going to eat GM-DAT's lunch. I have no opinion of the Monte Carlo. We still have 2004 models on the lot, brand new! The 30 year olds who would have loved these cars 25 years ago now buy Acura's, plain and simple. I can tell you boys and girls south of the border that your world will change at $4.50 a gallon, which is what we are paying these days. Although I think to be competitive, GM needs a couple RWD vehicles (even AWD), I personally don't care about the Camaro - or does anybody not remember why they were axed in the first place? The Cobalt/Malibu and Impala need to be class leading if GM is not going to be surpassed by Toyota in sales soon.

I thought I read somewhere that Chevrolet was supposed to get a small "Tracker-sized" SUV from GM-DAT. Is that no longer planned? If Chevrolet is supposed to be the Toyota fighter, then we have a huge hole in the line up. The Equinox cannot be the sole "small" SUV. The Tahoe simply is not selling here, due to the high price and the cost of gasoline. Chevrolet needs a decent 7 passenger minivan or SUV that is good on gas. 2010 is way, way too late. But then I guess Canada's market is too small to care about.

Wow, the only dealer in 50 miles? NO wonder you guys sell 400+ cars a month! There are 40 GM dealers in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), fighting over a populaton base of about 4 million. Toyota has 21 dealers in the same market area. Let me tell you, our Toyota store sells more cars on a SATURDAY than we do in a month! I've seen our numbers sink by 50% in the 8+ years that I've been here, but then losing the Olds franchise 2 years ago didn't help either. I mean, I have lots of Alero leases that I have nothing to give them. Chev/Olds was always paired up here in the hinterland, so it has been a blow to many Chev stores to lose Oldsmobile. The blood bath is going to get worse up here as I watch the unveiling of product over at the P-B-G side. Let's face it: up here, a customer can get the Acadia and Enclave over at our competitors up the street, plus the Torrent, Yukon and SV6! What do we have? The Tahoe (doesn't sell), Equinox and Uplander. I know Chevrolet is a power house in the States, but up here many of the Pontiac/GMC models outsell the Chevrolet versions (ie, the Sierra outsells the Silverado), so what GM is doing for Pontiac/Buick and Saturn is going to greatly effect Chevrolet up here. Pontiac has 2 convertibles now (not that they are huge sellers in Canada) and all Chevrolet has is the Corvette and we've sold, like, 4 this year. Our sales are holding their own, but when you are sub-100 deals a month it doesn't matter anyway LOL

1. Yes, lost everything 10 years ago. House, boat, spouse, career, town - all happened within 2 - 3 years. Bad business decisions; bad choice of business partners. 2. Went from running two video stores to the car business. Total change of pace, which I needed. Went from living in a small town to the Big City. Got rid of my partner, after nearly 10 years together. Spent my 40th birthday alone, which shocked the hell out of me! But my life has always been like that. Left home when I was 17, finished highschool on my own, then went on to university. Routine can lead to complacency and Life has a way of slapping you down when you become complacent.

But where would all this eventually end? Let's suppose for a moment that the Impala is a fine vehicle the way it is. Let's suppose for a moment that many people even LIKE the overhangs and find the car pleasing to look at. Let's suppose the Impala gets pretty decent gas mileage in its present form (over 740km on one tank of gas in a recent run from Quebec!). Let's suppose it has the most reliable 4 spd transmission on the market. Let's suppose that 80% of the market doesn't know how many gears their vehicle has other than to put it in "D." Let's suppose it is AS reliable as the Camry. Let's suppose that it is $2,500 cheaper than the cheapest Camry and about $4,500 cheaper than a comparably equipped (read: V-6) Camry. Just because YOU would pay $4,500 to run with the BETTER (?) DOHC power plant and an extra gear doesn't mean that MOST people would or could. However, under that category of Tyranny of the Enthusiasts, the usual suspects will continue to hammer GM for these "deficiencies" until GM heels and provides all of these things, thus bringing the car up another $3-5,000 and pricing more people into the Kia/Hyundai market. According to the rabbling media, we should all be driving Porsches or BMWs - anything else is a compromise. Well, most people can't AFFORD a BMW, so they lease an Impala. But just enough people believe this crap about the superiority of Japanese vehicles and the "deficiencies" as noted above to keep Japan Inc's factories rolling and North American jobs flying out the window.

Again, what came first - the chicken or the egg. So, a dealer has a waiting list. The local ZM (Zone Manager) has told the dealer it will only get TWO of the said vehicle (because the entire country is only getting 125) and you have already taken a deposit on two, warning both customers that neither one may get the vehicle, just to be safe. Along comes a 3rd customer and this guy/gal offers the dealer an extra $5k to be put on the list and to even "bump" one of the others. Or how about if the customer turns around and offers up his place to someone else for a cool $5k. As repugnant as it sounds, the same thing happens in the housing market. A house is advertised at $439k. Four offers are submitted, one of them being for $525k. Do you think the vendor is crazy? Do you think that he/she would say NO to the $525k??? Capitalism, for better or worse, is the way to go, boys and girls. If someone is willing to pay, I say they are stupid. Anyone see original Challengers and Superbirds going for $125k+ on eBay? If someone is crazy enough to pay that for a 30 year old car that was once $3,500, bully for them, I say!

Well, I'd still stack the Impala against the Camry any day. A lot of a person's bias toward one or the other will largely depend on what he/she grew up with. I have never liked Japanese design and don't like the turn that Toyota has taken - I still give the nod to Nissan and Honda for the look of their cars. I am 6'2" and have no problems in the back of the Impala. My only gripe there is that my huge size 12 feet do tend to get caught under the skirt of the front seats when I try to get out! I don't think the Camry is a bad design or execution; I just don't like it. Also, for the $2k+ price difference in this market, I'd rather drive the Impala. Heritage matters to me and I prefer the somewhat more "floaty" ride of the LS/LT over the base Camry. The quality/reliablity issue is also tied, IMO. From the lack of complaints the Impala has garnered over the years< I'd say GM has that one licked. I'd say GM has turned the corner. Since Lutz has taken over, I think we can all agree that GM has turned the tide with quality (already in progress when he took over) and getting better products out. I'd say the last real challenge is to get the critics on board, and that will take time because they are a jaded lot, for sure.

Although a little anecdotal, I've sold a lot of Cobalts and the only complaints have been minor in nature: radio problems, tearing of the fabric on the driver's armrest, etc. Actually, we've discussed these on another thread here before. The only vehicles that have caused me some embarassment have been the Epica (which we just don't stock any more) and the Optra, both of which are built in Korea. Although I've heard elsewhere on this board how awful the Uplander is, I've sold a lot of those, too, and the only real complaints have been about brakes and noises. I feel quite confident in marching customers over to our sister store and driving them in a Corolla if the customer insists on looking at one. All but the most ardent Japan Inc lapdogs will agree the Cobalt is a better vehicle.

I've seen the '07 Nox in the flesh and GM has greatly updated it. Stablitrak, ABS and trac control, 4 wheel discs and alloy rims are all standard. The gages, radio, window controls and center stack have all been upgraded. The ugly cloth material is still being used but has been darkened to make it look less cheap, I guess. Over all, the impression is much better even in the lesser models now.

Honda Pilot..........oops, looks like I took the wrong meds tonight...............

Well, I don't know how anyone can definitively say who has a better library, unless you subscribe to both and listen to ALL formats of music. I am sure each has its strengths. Stern is crass and gets on my nerves after a while. He is funny to a point, but wears thin, IMO. However, I am a dance music freak and the first night I had XM they played a very rare dance music 12" from 1981, called The Break. Great track and if they've got that in their collection (or whomever the guest DJ was that night), then I am impressed. HOwever, if Sirius has a better collection of Nana Miskouri, well I don't care. LOL

Is OnStar not standard on the Uplander in the U.S.? Up here in the hinterland, OnStar has been standard for two years now on the Uplanders, which we sell a lot of. Back to XM, I've had it since March and I am addicted. No more Cds. Never use my iPod either (my XM is a portable). Like most new technology, there will be some resistance, but to use XM for a couple days is to become hooked.

I am basically a technocrat, in that I believe technology will save the day, but (there is one big BUT) we somehow, some day need to ween ourselves off an economy that can only prosper by growing. The population of the U.S. is probably at a comfortable level now. If the population were to rise another 100 million or so, that extra population will begin to seriously deplete available resources. Personally, I think we all deserve a big house in the suburbs (or fancy condo downtown, if that's what your lifestyle dictates) and in North America we still have plenty of land to grow into. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our oil-based economy needs to change. Alternate energy sources will be found and our economy will prosper. But the REAL threat is Asia: China and India. Now THEY have some fierce problems to face up to. China's middle class is already larger than the entire population of the U.S. Just wait until they demand a house in the suburbs.

Agreed. But why do I get the feeling that we are in a viscious circle that we can't win? I am just cynical enough to think that somehow the computer industry secretly likes this. It keeps us all afraid of illegal software and we have to keep paying for anti-virus stuff. Like, for example, Cincinnati Microwave sells the #1 selling radar detectors, then turns around and sells law enforcement the next generation of detector-detectors. Nice racket - and its all legal.

Four cars: a '68 and '69 Chrysler 300, both convertibles. '69 and '72 Chrysler Imperial, 4 door hardtops. all loaded, buckets on the 300s I love those fuselage-styled cars. I like the muscle cars too, but let's face it - most of them drove like grocery carts, and I am addicted to power windows, locks, etc. I'd take half the cars on sixty8's list, but I've found when I've driven cars that are older than the mid-60s, they look good but their performance/handling/ride leave much to be desired.

As I stated earlier, part of the problem is that GM was ignoring Honda/Toyota in their rear view mirror until about 3 -5 years ago. They couldn't see beyond the old Ford/Chevy/Plymouth rivalry. To that end, because there was never a 4 spd auto in the Neon, Chevrolet was slow to adopt one, although it was available in the new body style of 1995 but not standard until 1999 or 2000. I remember it was a $200 upgrade on the 1998/99 model, one that a lot of dealers ignored. Being as this subject won't seem to go away, is there anybody on board here who can explain, from an engineering point of view perhaps, what exactly are the costs/risks involved with adding a 5th or 6th gear to an automatic? My concern is that given the extra levels of complexity, weight, etc., would the law of diminishing return not eventually kick in? I mean, it has to end somewhere, right? Or why shouldn't we just skip right to CVT, which has been tried, but I suspect without a great degree of success.

Maltar, in 2003 GM decided that if you can't beat'em, join'em and pulled ABS out of most of the base cars and some of the trucks, althought it put them back in the trucks pretty fast. I remember thinking - OUCH, there's going to be a backlash and, guess what - nobody cared? ABS just stopped being a selling feature and nobody cared. And I did look it up: the 1981 GM full sized cars became available with an "automatic overdrive" the same year that Mercury introduced their 4 spd automatic. GM has marched at the forefront of technology, but apparently not enough to please some critics. Ah, well.

I wonder, though, about personality types that are naturally inquisitive, versus those who are afraid/reluctant to try new things. Some people are naturally conservative in nature and pretty set in their ways at an early age, while others like to try new things well into their 30s and 40s. For example, my mother is stuck in a time warp of the '60s: Elvis, Everly Brothers, right up until early disco stuff. Her music/fashion tastes stopped changing when she turned 30. Me, on the other hand, still like (some) current music, embrace new technologies (XM, MP3 players) and go with the flow. I wonder what has happened to all those hippies of the '60s who were told to question everything. HOw did things turn out for them?

I am the first person to say that I don't get the SUV craze and that these big, bloated station wagons are, for the most part, abominations; however, unless Washington outlaws them, and as long as people are buying them, why would the TCC be so petty and jealous as to begrudge GM's success with them? We all know that if GM had left the previous generation 900s alone and their market share of that segment was in free-fall, TCC would be the first to slam GM for having outdated models that aren't competitive in the market place. So GM comes out with the best in class large SUV to ensure its continued domination of this (still) very profitable segment and TCC wants to pee all over it. Sounds like TCC is praying that the GMT-900s fail so that they can gloat some more.

I like the Mach III. Gives a nice shave. Puts off my 5:00 shadow until 6:30, at least. They were giving out the quattro (or whatever its called) with the vibrating head for free in the gay village a couple weeks ago. I grabbed two. Even with the 4 blades and the vibrator [this is me biting my tongue], the Mach III is better. OH, and the Fusion? Nice car. I would choose one over the Malibu and I am driving a Malibu!!! LOL Car looks great.

I've been saying that for years. By definition, commissioned sales sets the experience up for an adversarial one. Especially now that the market is so fragmented and there is so much (mis)information on the internet. Customers are (somewhat) more informed than they were, say, 20 years ago, but they are also more confused. It takes real training to keep on top of things and many salespeople don't see the advantage (or point) to spending 6 hours off-site training for FREE, then having to work 6-8 hours on the floor the same day. To a very large extent many dealerships view salespeople much the way a lot of restaurants view their wait staff: unpaid slaves. They call sales meetings at all wierd hours, talk about nothing and waste everyone's time because they don't have to pay them to stand around. When I managed at a large retail chain I had to pay each of my workers 3 hours pay to call a meeting, whether the meeting lasted 3 hours or not (Ontario law) AND if I had 10 employees standing around that was 30 hours I would lose from my monthly hours budget - you can damned well bet I made those hours count with meetings of importance and content. If sales staff were salaried with a volume bonus or something to that effect, then management would be responsible for their training/upgrading and the sales staff would be paid (and expected) to do it.

Siegen, you're proving the point: GM builds more models of pickups than anybody else - and they have the SS Silverado for those who do care about 0-60 times. As to the peeling out of the parking lot, if they'd bought the G80 option (locking diff) maybe they wouldn't peel out. LOL