GMTruckGuy74

That was the point I made to Andrea. I told her that I realize that Saturn's goal has always been to attract foreign car owners (Toyota, Honda, etc) and anybody that would never consider a GM vehicle. However, now that GM recognizes Saturn as a division (see those little GM badges on each Saturn vehicle?), why rule out current GM owners. I pointed out to her that not only did I buy my SKY in April, but in November I leased an AURA (that replaced another GM division's vehicle). I also said that I have quite a few earnings accumulated, that my Envoy lease expires next year, and my earnings and where I can spend them will influence my decision (seeing as how we may buy our next vehicle). I told her that I can either have three Saturns in my driveway, or two and another GM division gets my money. I wasn't cockey about it, but I wanted to get my point across. She said that she understands and agrees, but it's in Jill L's hands to make the decision and she'll go back and communicate it again that the buying force wants to be able to use their GM Card earnings.

The fender-mounted side marker lights are not included on the Opel GT or Daewoo G2x... I was going to ask why, but I overheard an engineer say to another Kappa owner that it has to do with European regulations (about the Opel GT). I wanted to ask more about it, but got sidetracked and after taking the pics of the cars in the lot, remembered but it was too late!

Yup, it's an Opel and that's why I took it. There were quite a few Opels parked out in the lot, some were out being driven around the test track and many were being assembled throughout the tour. The Daewoo on display inside of the factory was the only one visible - there were none on the lines being made and it was mentioned during one of the presentations that the Daewoo G2x officially goes into production in June. Apparently some of the attendees asked the event planner to post the names of the factory people responsible for the day's events so that they could send them written "thank you" letters. I plan to do that and ask if they could pass the word on to other GM plants to consider doing this type of event for owners. Many people there were first time owners of Saturns and/or Pontiacs - and they left very impressed by GM (I've heard a few SKY owners tell Andrea that Saturn is on their shopping list from now on). Imagine if owners could get a tour of the Lordstown plant (Cobalt/G5), Shreveport plant (Canyon/Colorado), or any other plant? It would be a great experience, and the free word-of-mouth advertising the GM would get would definitely be worth it. I'm not a big fan of unions (and being a teacher in NJ, I belong to one of the bigger state unions), but if you could see the pride in the UAW workers as they assembled the cars, the many thanks they gave to us owners for keeping their plant going/buying a Kappa/buying a GM product, and the enthusiasm they have for the Kappa cars (many are owners too), then you can understand why it's important to have happy workers assembling your products. One plant employee I spoke with on the line said he's been there 28 years. I asked what carline he started with and he said "Chevette". I asked what car he liked most out of this plant and he said "the current ones because they have style and are in demand and it's a great feeling building a car that people absolutely love". Boy, doesn't that sum it all up?

Knightfan, it was a great experience. Other than GM employees here, how many of us can say we saw the birthplace of our beloved car/truck? I wish I could see more plants, but there aren't too many more around the NJ area. It was a very exciting day. I hope GM starts doing more of these for the other passionate owners of their cars/trucks. This is the second GM factory I've been in (3rd automotive plant all together) - the other one was the defunct Trenton (NJ) plant at their ceremonial closing (for all employees and the public) back in 1998. Most of that plant had already been cleared out of the machines that could be used elsewhere, and the walk-around area was very limited (plus no guided tours). So it was great to see how the Kappa cars (Saturn, Pontiac, Opel & Daewoo) come to life. The tour was titled "Mecca Tour 2007" on the plant ID badges we were issued, so a lot of us over at skyroadster.com are hoping for a "2008" tour, in which I may bring someone from C&G with me if they allow it next year. Some other cool things: *Plant engineers issued to all Kappa owners clear 3M protective strips to be placed under the hood where paint scratching can occur. This is a running change made to all factory-built cars and they wanted the current owners to have the protection too. *Plant management allowed workers to come outside to address issues on current owners cars. One person in particular has been experiencing problems when lowering the top. After speaking with a plant engineer, a worker and the engineer went outside, made some adjustments, and viola! - the top works perfectly now. *One-to-One chats were held throughout the day. Most of the engineers were asking what we liked, didn't like, and had problems with our cars. They wrote stuff down, made adjustments, and thanked us for our input/feedback. *Saturn & Pontiac Marketing people were present. I spoke with Andrea from Saturn Marketing about licensing issues and The GM Card earnings. She said many dealers and customers are upset about not being able to use their earnings on Saturn vehicles. Saturn was not expecting such an interest from current GM owners and Jill L. was not moving from her position about accepting the earnings. However, with such feedback already received, the marketing dept is reevaluating the position and hope to get Jill to change her mind. If anyone has questions, please ask. I'm sure I forgot to mention some things.

And to prove I was there (thanks to another skyroadster.com member that posted this pic)... top row, first gray one parked next to the black or dark blue Solstice is my SKY (parked head-in). For some reason I can't get the picture to show here, so click on this link to check it out: Kappas (and mine too!) Believe it or not, that whole area was filled with SKYs and Solstices. After the tour ended, many people seemed to have left right before lunch. My son and I ate, then went outside to look at all the cars and most had left. The pictures I took were around 2:00 PM, as many people were getting ready to leave. I forgot to take a shot of mine parked among the sea of Kappas, that is until I found the one posted above! And yes PCS, my tour guide mentioned to us the fact that "there's about 1 million square feet of unused space in this plant". Another guy in my group said "Why's that?", to which my tour guide said "For future product" and nothing else. One thing I forgot to mention is the way the cars get transported around the factory - something I thought was really neat and still sticks out in my mind. When the frames/tunnel/floorboards are being welded, they are placed on a wheeled pull-cart (think a really big Radio Flyer wagon). Next they are put onto these computer controlled SmartCarts that seemingly drive themselves around the plant. No human is near them, they just glide from station to station. They follow a magnetic tape stripe on the floor. Eventually, when the cars come together with wheels they are transferred to the "skillets" - large, flat pieces of metal that carry the car along as workers assemble parts and components. As I did mention, when the skillets need to move to another area, they do it overhead on these conveyor systems. These large lifts/elevators move the entire skillet up and down. It's really an interesting thing to watch - I'm thankful that my tour guide took the time to point this out.

Just in case you couldn't tell from Post #29, yes you all did!!!

Not surprisingly, this fact was left off the tour! Probably too many people would try to find it on their own and get arrested! The event was great and GM really showed the 173 attendees that they appreciate our business and passion for the Kappa cars. Seventeen states and the District of Columbia were represented, with Illinois and Florida being the two farthest states that Kappa owners drove their cars from. Engineers, plant workers (nee tour guides), plant management, UAW leaders, and Saturn & Pontiac Marketing personnel were there to meet & greet with everyone throughout the day. The tour consisted of 6 people to one tour guide, which allowed for a lot of interaction and questioning. We saw most of the plant - the paint shop was the exception and I don't recall seeing the wheel & tire installation process. Pontiac-Custom S told me to pay particular attention to the body shop area to see why these cars are special; most of the welding is done by humans! That's right, people do most of the welding when assembling the platform of the Kappa cars. We watched two areas in welding where robots did welding (merging of the upper and lower parts of the hood and some areas of the platform), but the rest was done by humans who apparently take a lot of pride in what they do. As you can tell, the plant was in operation during the tour (not fully); we were told that there are 3 shifts per day, 5 days per week and that 1 Saturday per month is when overtime is given (May 19 just happened to be the overtime Saturday). The plant looked completely filled up with Kappa production that you'd never notice that 1 million square feet has been left open for future product. The tour did not take place in chronological order, so depending on where you started you saw the cars in various stages. My tour group started at the water leakage testing area. We watched a Silver Graphite SKY (my color!) drive into an area where water is sprayed in hurricane like fashion at the car. After several minutes, the car gets driven out and the driver opens and inspects all areas of the SKY to see if water leaked in. If it did, it would be brought over to a repair area where the issue(s) would be corrected. Moving on we saw just about everything - painted body panels on "bird cages" coming from the paint shop; entire cars being sent up and over areas on skillets by special elevators; windshields, rear brake rotos & suspension pieces, rear quarter panels (glued on, btw), and more all being installed, dashes being assembled and installed into cabins, frame rails/floorboards/central tunnels being welded together, DVT testing where the cars systems (ABS, traction control, etc) are tested with the car being stationary -- you name it, we saw it. It was simply amazing to see how our cars came into existence. Too bad many other GM vehicle owners can't get the chance to see how their vehicle came together. Besides mandatory safety training and mutilation prevention (not for us, but for protection of the cars being made!), there was a presention by the plant assistant manager, a greeting by the local UAW official, a small "Roadster Story" by the lead engineer (included were shots taken by a GMI member of the first camo'd test run of the Solstice), snacks and lunch provided free, gift bags (SKY & Solstice posters, SKY Cross pen, UAW pewter coaster, Solstice keychain, GMAC Financial mints/toohtpike holder, and for the Solstice owners - a FREE <$35 value> copy of The Solstice Book), and door prize drawings for Solstice & SKY diecast (signed by Bob Lutz), Solstice "The Apprentice" brochures, SKY & Solstice fender clocks (painted fenders that had a clock added to them to decorate a wall in your house, made special by the plant employees), cut rims (back half missing) so that you could mount it on your wall at home... all in the name of the local Veteran's hospital (all procedes from ticket sales went directly to the veterans). Many cars on display inside the plant - a 1947 Pontiac Streamliner (represented the first model year of cars produced by the plant), a black Daewoo G2x, a red Opel GT, a yellow SKY RL, #16 SCCA Pontiac Solstice (plant employee owned), a silver Solstice GXP - all 2008 model years too. Outside Pontiac sent an event trailer with two Xbox 360s with the NCAA Basketball video games, about 7-8 Solstices on display, inlcuding the Tangerine Orange Sosltice featured in the Ludacris video ($30,000 custom paint job). Saturn had their event truck too, with a Hahn Stage II SKY, the preproduction 2008 VUE XR AWD, and dealer-loaned AURA XE and OUTLOOK XR models on display and a bank of computers to surf Saturn's web site. In the end, it was a great day and one that both me and my 13 y-o stepson (Anthony) will never forget. My wife was home sick, watching the baby too, so I did the right thing and headed home at the end. I missed out on joining about 20 or so other owners on a cruise into Kennett Square, PA and a stop at a famous Mexican Restaurant. But I got my SKY out on the road for a great drive, a great time with other Kappa owners, and an awesome tour of a GM plant. *Many thanks to General Motors, the employees and management of the Wilmington Plant, the UAW #435, Saturn and Pontiac Marketing/Divisions, and the members of the Solstice and SKY forum for giving us Kappa owners this very special day.

Sorry Balthazar & Sixty8, no leftover '50s parts for you guys First, some pictures that I took (remember, no cameras were allowed in the factory and had to remain outside of the gates): Wilmington Plant sign (SKY on this side, Solstice on the other side): The outside of the factory (mainly the office, training, & cafeteria areas): Member's cars in the designated parking area: A Polar White Redline SKY (you don't see many SKYs, RL or regular, in white): Pictures of Kappas waiting to be loaded (onto car carriers or trains): Some SKY/Solstice soon-to-be owners will be happy soon:

I had the opportunity to sit in an XR model over the weekend while attending the Wilmington plant tour. The interior is very nice and will draw in quite a few people. The rear seat leg room is tight, and I feel this area will be the downside for some people needing to carry rear seat passengers (namely me). The cargo area still had some room in it and has movable tie-downs to reposition the cargo net. The size is near perfect for those that don't want a larger SUV. Still, the rear seat area is a concern to me and I'm someone that would consider buying (leasing) one of these within the next two years. I think the OUTLOOK is more to my liking at this point. Here's a crappy picture of it - they wouldn't let us bring cameras into the factory, nor this gated area (which was only accessible from inside of the factory):

Sorry that I haven't posted an after-tour follow up... it was a busy day witht he family and I just uploaded all 9 images (too many, I know ) to Photobucket to post here. I started writing my follow up, but it's late, work comes early, and I need an excuse to play on the Internet tomorrow!

The day has finally arrived... tomorrow, Saturday May 19 is the infamous skyroadster.com (and sister Solstice site) Mecca Tour to the Wilmington, Delaware Kappa plant. Believe it or not, it was posted on skyroadster.com today that this will be the first tour EVER in the Wilmington plant. Approximately 200 lucky SKY, Solstice, RL and GXP owners and their guests will be given the opportunity to get a one and a half hour tour of the plant, lunch in the employee cafeteria (courtesy of GM), give-aways from Pontiac & Saturn, a small car show by the Kappa owners on property, display trucks by both Pontiac & Saturn, and the chance to bid on some unique GM items to raise cash for charity (items have not been discussed - part of the "surprise"). Due to GM's stringent regulations and rules (as outlined in the waiver required to enter the plant), no cameras or camera phones will be allowed IN the facilty; however, pictures outside of the plant are allowed - so look forward to pictures only of the attendees and not inside of the plant. There are two tours scheduled - 6:45AM and 7:45AM (of which I am part of) - not happy to wake up for work during the week, but it's never a problem for anything car-related on the weekends! While there have been many SKY/Solstice drives and gatherings over the last two years (one for SKY), this is the first GM-sponsored Kappa event where the owners will see the "birthplace" of their cars. How many GM owners can say that they saw how their car was manufactured? Needless to say I'm very excited, as this will be the very first event I attend with owners of the same car I love (and hopefully many more to come). My 13 y-o stepson Anthony will be my guest at this event - and he's even excited about it. Although not a writer, I will try to summarize the day when I get home and get a chance to get on the computer. I'll try to post whatever pictures I take too. So at 6:00 AM tomorrow morning, I will venture down I-295 South towards Delaware to see where my car came to life. Wish me luck for a safe drive and pray that any rain that thinks it will fall gets blown out over the ocean!

Well, I remember at the 2004 show they had a preproduction Solstice on display that attendees were able to sit in; at this point, you still couldn't even get that close to them at the major auto shows. The downside to the H3T mention is that they have a H3 "SUT" chop as the representation of the H3T, and it basically looks like the H3 frontend on a H2 SUT! I'll try to make it out there that day, just to see what GM allows there and what classic GM's come out.

Those of you located in central New Jersey, Perrine Buick-Pontiac-GMC on Route 130 North in Cranbury (Mercer County), they're celebrating their 80th Anniversary with a "Hummer Happening and Classic <GM> Car Show" on Saturday, June 2 from 10:00AM - 4:00PM rain or shine. The Hummer H3T concept truck and the Pontiac G8 sedan are highlighted on their flyer and newspaper ads. maybe I'll take the SKY there and show it off!

I'm sure that it's just painted plastic and not real metal. GM isn't spending that much money on a steering wheel!My wife really liked the new VUE when we saw it at the NYIAS last month, even more than the OUTLOOK/Acadia (she still likes the Enclave the best though). She said we need to decide if we want extra passenger space (OUTLOOK/Acadia/Enclave) or better gas mileage (VUE). I think we'll go with the extra passenger space to replace the Envoy in summer of '08 (still working her on the Sierra crew cab! ) and replace the AURA in fall '09 with the VUE. The VUE does look nice in white in those pictures... now let's see it in person.

Well, she seems open to the Mustang, although other colleagues tell her that they feel the Solara is more her style (?!?!). She definitely needs a 4-seater (SKY, Solstice, Crossfire all ruled out), must be a brand new car (no used or CPO), doesn't want another Chrysler (no new Sebring or PT Cruiser conv - after 2 problematic Sebrings, who could blame her?; she's also hesitant b/c of the sale of Chrysler), wants something that offers rear seat room plus adequate trunk space (this is her only car, and she keeps way too much stuff in the Sebring's limited space anyway), wants it to be reliable and as problem-free as a car can be, and doesn't want to spend a small fortune for a "car" (meaning around $25K). She thinks getting it in the fall would be the best for saving money, but I told her that the summer sell-offs would probably be better and allow her a choice rather than whatever's just leftover. She asked me to look into the Mustang for her and tell her if the trunk space and back seat room are good. She also wants to see a brochure for pictures and features. I'm going to try to stop by the local Ford dealership today after work; too bad I didn't bring the SKY with me

Alright, so there's another teacher I work with that owns a 2003 or 2004 Chrylser Sebring convertible. This is her 2nd one and she's had her share of repair horrors (1st one had too many tranny problems). She wants a new convertible sometime this summer. Another colleague bought a 2006 Toyota Solara convertible last summer and loves it; no problems and claims because it's a Toyota. Now my 1st colleague has owned nothing buy domestic cars and is considering her first foreign car. She needs trunk room for her beach stuff and backseat room for her young niece and nephew. That rules out the Pontiac G6. I showed her the Saab 9-3 convertible, but the price is more than she wants to spend. There's nothing else GM offers that I can show her. She is not buying another Chrysler Sebring either. That leaves me with the Ford Mustang (V6). She said if I check it out and find that it has a comfortable back seat and room in the trunk, she'll consider it before going over to Toyota. This seems like my last hope - I can't stand seeing Toyo get another sale! Am I wasting my time here? She's older (mid-50s) but is a young person at heart. She thinks the new Mustangs look nice, but feels that they'll be too small (rear seat & trunk). Are there any other convertibles I'm missing? Please help me!!!

I'll be in Carlisle on Saturday for the All-GM show, in Hershey Saturday night to Monday morning (HersheyPark all day Sunday), and then in Lancaster on Monday (taking the little guy to Dutch Wonderland, maybe some outlet stores for the wife). Haven't missed the All-GM show since I first went back in '98. Can't wait!!! Any word on what specialty cars will be on display in the red barn building? Maybe the Concept Camaro Convertible, as the Coupe was there last year. Wonder what else GM will be bringing out?

I spent 16 months of my life selling new Buicks-Pontiacs-GMCs and used vehicles while waiting for a teaching position in my field to open up. I woudn't recommend this field to anyone that isn't really into a sales career. I quoted Ted for the truth - if you think you can sell and you love cars, a great salesperson it won't make you.

The SKYs (and Solstices) horn sucks big time. Many of the owners over at skyroadster.com have added to or replaced thier stock OEM horn. It's one of the mods I plan to do to my SKY once I find a replacement horn that I like and just plugs right in without any electrical or wiring modifications.

Hey sixty8, isn't it a little too early to start your weekend partying???

If you do decide to purchase the Acadia in NY, you can drive it down to Virginia, load it onto AmTrak's AUTO TRAIN, and ride in comfort all the way down to FL. I believe the train ends just above Orlando. Here's a link for you to check out, if interested: Amtrak Auto Train I'd also look into state taxes and motor vehicle fees to make my decision. Not sure if you'll get much more of a discount buying in FL vs. NY or vice-versa. I'd also consider how hard it is to re-register and re-inspect the car in FL.

Fly, great job. Something caught my eye - seems as if there was a Futurliner there or a drawing of it. Can you provide some more details please?

PCS, it arrived in yesterday's mail. I would have posted this sooner, but my computer at home is on the fritz and I'm afraid my hard-drive has crashed again, so no computer use until I get to work. The sticker is exactly what I was looking for. Pretty smart putting my address for the return address! Thanks again for all your help and efforts to get me this sticker. Close... the plant's sticker. Supposedly the service writer got me the doorjam & tire inflation stickers. With work and family responsibilities, I have yet to have the chance to get back there with the SKY (when the weather does cooperate, I'm too busy tooling around in it and not at the dealership!). The plant sticker - you all know what I mean, the one that states where the vehicle was manufactured at - was not obtainable by the dealership. PCS came through for me. I agree with Camino here that this definitely puts a BIG PLUS in PCS column. I've seen some of them, but not all. Pretty cool and thanks for posting them here.99% of the repairs have been done so far, just the three stickers, a passenger side rear inner-fender liner, and re-alignment of the rear bumper needs to get done. I need to set some time aside next week to get these issues resolved with the dealership. Of course if anyone saw the car they'd think I was crazy, but it's my baby and I know these areas still need attention. I'm entering the SKY into it's first car show on Sat, May 5. It's a local one with all kinds of cars being accepted (I'll be in the Special Interest category). I believe if any trophies are awarded, it's by peer judging (not saying I'm expecting to receive one, but there's no hard-core judges doing the job). I think it will be cool to show her off. She needs a bath though before she goes on display!

The very last one is the reason why ocnblu is not allowed in New Jersey since the late '80s.

I will definitely PM you when it arrives. Shouldn't be more than a couple of days... that is unless you snuck a brand new SKY RL in there too! Since you're going over to Opel's HQ's, can you pass along to them that there's many people looking for a convertible that seats more than 2 in the Saturn line, and the Astra convertible would be a nice addition to Saturn's line-up? I can't wait for the Wilmington tour. Details are still being kept secret, as the organizer is getting all of the GM plant waivers settled. I guess at that point he'll let us know what time slot we have for our tour (6:45 or 7:45 AM), plus any other activities planned for the day. I know several of the 100 or so cars will be going into PA or further into DE for a cruise and meal... not sure which route I'm going (PA or home). I will definitely post a thread here about the tour, and whatever pictures I'm allowed to take (all outside of the plant) too. You intrigued me on the bodyshop detail in the PM, so I know I'll definitely check it out. Totally out of left field here, but what is your t-shirt size?