rkmdogs

There is an old expression flowmotion that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one! And while yours is very critical of the products and expresses very elequently your extreme bias, consider this point. Do you work in the U.S. auto industry? Well one out of every 7 employed people do work either directly or indirectly in this industry. Are you a foreign national, whose income is subsidized by your government? Well if you are not, where are you going to find a job and pay for your beloved off-shore POS? Remember where the profits go, not the token peon jobs that the foreign car manufacturers try to hold up as proof that they have joined the American economy. How much U.S. taxes do they pay? Then try to eat your rice-paper hot-rod! You West-coast people are so blind about what is happening to this country and its' economy with your love of off-shore products, it makes me sick. When the illegals out there start a revolution to take back your State, as an independent -Spanish speaking country, where will you pick a side? Wake up!!!!

Here's where we part company SimonDavid..... The notched, or dipped-down beltline as you call it is classic shoebox era( '55,'56,'57) styling, and is the one retro signature that GM had, and I think should use more! Besides looking "cool" when you have the window rolled down, and your arm resting on the door beltline, makes a statement. But, maybe you where not around to remember that era..... B)

I hate to play the role of Bartholamew, but this "king" is butt ugly, for three reasons. 1. It looks in the side profile like they dipped into Arh-hnolld's steroid kit. 2. The front end looks like a close-up of Jay Leno, while he was still wearing braces on his teeth! 3. The rear-end looks like Garfield the cat, when he hatches some fiendish plot! What happened to the graceful, slim proportions they had on the Nomad concepts? Guys, take off your rose-colored glasses. Go back to the board, Chevy!!!!!

VenSeattle, Like I said in another post, the Oriental car makers back up their vehicles with long-term warranties. They publish this information! Do they honor them? I don't know because I won't buy one! I am a very firm believer in keeping jobs for Americans to keep this country great. Selling off jobs to foreign countries is like selling your seed-corn. Pretty soon you have nothing left to plant, and you starve to death! One of GM's problems is their look to the East and all the wooing that they have done to the Chinese. If you play the game of politics, one day it will bite you in the ass, especially from people whose policy is to constantly lie to the world! GM reliability? I have had 3 Astro vans with the 4.3L V-6. The first, a 1988 is still going with 313,000 miles on it! The second, a 1995 was sold with 187,000 miles on it! My current one, a 2000, has 95,000 miles on it. The secret? Preventative maintainence! This is a policy that is foreign to most American car owners because they have no mechanical knowledge and cannot appreciate that machinery needs maintainence. How many times have you heard some lunk-head nerd "brag" about not having changed his oil in a year, "and my car is still going fine." The average American driver doesn't even know what they are looking at, if they even know how to open the hood of their vehicle. Years ago, when car ownership was a thing of pride and social status, the owners took pride in having knowledge about their cars, and would rattle off technical data about their pride and joy at the slightest prompt. Today the attitude of most car owners is that the car is in the same category as their toothbrush! See the dentist, or mechanic twice a year is enough. How many people do you know today, who own cars, and say that they enjoy driving? They are the minority! So proper maintainence of the cars follow a "only when it stops" mentality. Many surveys for years said that American cars were the most reliable machinery in the world, when neglected the way American drivers practice. I can recall many stories of "locked-up" or "frozen" engines on foreign cars, when they were subjected to the same neglected maintainence by American drivers. We are unique in the world of car owners, for our disrespect of the machinery that we own and brag about. That is the atmosphere that are car designers have to deal with!!!! AND, I think that they do a pretty good job of it, with one hand tied behind their backs!! Think I'm wrong? Then just look at the "junk" that is being driven around today, with the things that you can visually observe are "wrong" or broken. In Japan, you literally have to rebuild the drivetrain of the car in a very short lifespan, to get it "inspected" and licensed! That's why you can find so many low-mileage engines for sale in CA.---- for Japanese cars! How many cars have you seen here, with broken lights, cracked windshields, and all sorts of dents and dings? You don't see the "smokers" like you used to, since the pollution-police has come into reality. But, how many brake-squealers have you heard lately? They don't check them-- yet..... And in places where they do, a ten-dollar bill on the seat gets you a "pass".

Yup,yup,yup! There is an old expression that GM needs to follow ---- put your money where your mouth is! If GM quality is up there, better than the Japs or Koreans ----- then show it in your warranty! This business of 3 years or 36,000 miles says to the public, we don't have any confidence in our product quality or durability! You Urban yuppies probably don't drive 36,000 miles in your lifetimes, but some of us do get out and massage the blacktop for much longer distances. If GM products are better than Hundai or Kia, then match their 100,000 mile promise..... or do'em better! Thru the back door, I have heard that some GM products were designed for a 300,000 mile life cycle....... like the old "B" body cars & drivetrains for squad cars and taxis. Why not let the public in on that, and back it up with a warranty to match! Stop saying, "me too!"!!!! And lastly, when you get a winner, like the HHR, make sure that you can deliver, and don't allow dealers to prostitute your desired models. Years ago, when VW beetles were very popular, and hard to come by, any dealer caught hiking prices or doing "packs", lost their franchise! I saw this happen in Chicago years ago. GM needs to get honest with the public, even if their dealers don't want to! The corporation is not doing direct sales, but thru dealerships. If the dealerships are only giving lip service, and not following corporate policy, get rid of them!!! AND enforce what you tell the public. If you want people to believe in you, you have to believe in yourself! :AH-HA_wink:

I can understand reasonable documentation fees, say $100-200. at most, but $1200? Even if the clerk wrote with 24K gold ink, it should not cost that much. It is just another way to gouge the "dumb" customer! I don't know if all the dealers around here charge that much, 'cause I haven't been able to find another car I would want to buy. Down here, if you don't want a blue, silver or black HHR, you're out of luck. White? I don't think they have made one yet! Amethyst? Yeah, if you can find one that is not a loaded "juke box", or one that was "just sold that one"! The one I was going to buy was the dark red, that actually looks more like the maroon that was on my '62 Buick Special! Talk about paint problems!!!!!!!! :o Sandstone? Hear about them, but have yet to see one at a dealer that was for sale! If they anticipate 120,000 units being sold, they had better start filling the pipeline. Down here they are harder to find than chicken spit!!! Tons(literally) of unsold SUV's tho!! B)

Re: HHR I almost bought one, under the red tag sales promo.......... untilit came to the bottom line! Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things to find fault with on it, but you have to consider the whole overall package. The electric P/S --- seems to vary alot from one car to another. I have driven 3 so far, and 2 out of the 3 were O.K., but that 3rd one--- ugh! It was so vague, if you were not looking, you would not know what direction the car was going! I still resent that GM has abandoned the minivan market, putting their "eggs" into the SUV crossover basket! But the HHR is still the only general purpose vehicle on the market where you can fold the seats and have a flat floor on the same plane! The PT Cruiser fails this test, because it has a raised rail across the tailgate opening, so you cannot slide "things" straight in.!!!! Back to bottom line, thru selection you can get an HHR with all the whistles and bells without taking the "jukebox junk", if you pick & choose the option list, especially on a 2LT model. But in my case, when it came time to sign on the bottom line, there was about $1200. that was not shown on the red tag price, after adding on the sales tax. Oh, that's "documentation charges" I was told by the sales manager, and Chevy allows us to add them on, even though the ads all say that the red tag price is all you should pay!(In fine,very fine print--- except for taxes title and dealer fees!) What a joke, and talk about scam jobs----- GM is allowing the biggest one here. No wonder people don't trust car dealers,and that rubs down to GM as well!!! :angry:

Driver, you have stated some conflicting parameters. What do you mean by "bigger" tires? Wider? Different profile? If you understand tire measurement characteristics, a very good tool that you can use is: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html In order to use this comparison chart however, you must have JAVA on your computer. You have not indicated what van you are doing this swap on. Early ones, that had gear-driven speedos, you can change the gears at the transmission to correct for the new conditions. Later ones, with electronic pulse-driven speedos need a computer change, that most dealer service depts. can do, if the new size is one that was factory-offered. Lastly there are after-market converter boxes that are available for some of the wild, off-road sizes.They usually plug in at the trans cable and act as an intermediate step to correct the info going to the dash. If you understand the concept of "plus one" or plus two" tire size changes, the Miata table is the best bet. LOL !!! :P

[quote name='razoredge' date='Dec 22 2005, 12:09 AM'] "Come on RKM, cut me a break ! I tried really hard on this and I feel I came up with some good evaluations. Cars currently come in all sizes and everyone over 18 is done growing so that covers the better percentage of the next 40 years of car buying public. Im not getting any larger and in fact at only 5:10 Im still larger (longer) than most men Ive worked around. Our highways are stuffed full of one car one driver every morning on the way to work. Car pools stink. Not many that live in same area work in same area. Then it adds time involved with work everyday to have to meet up and wait and drive out of the way, ect. ect. Not that I am against it, but I know that is the majority. Currently our fullsize cars are smaller than mid size cars of decades past yet they weigh nearly 1000 lb more. All jumbled up with electro garb and piggy toe air bags. For a small transportation car I'd rather have my money spent on a small refined alloy V8 and skip the piggy toe protection and "help me, Im lost" electro garb." Razor, For once I have to concur with some of what you say. Yes, some of the cars are heavier, because of the weight increases caused by electronic "gimmicks" and some safety equipment. Copper wiring weighs alot! That was why the industry was supposed to embrace the switch to 42v electric systems, which would allow bus architecture, more fiber optics, and reduce weight. Have you seen anybody, except Ferrari even making noises about this? And SAE was supposed to mandate this new electrical standard last year. What happened? My 1983 9C1 Malibu weighed 3315lbs when I put it on the scales at the dragstrip. And that was stock, with my golfclubs in the trunk! Dimensionally, the new Impala almost matches it, except for the weight. Yeah you may not be getting any bigger, but the general population sure is! I'm not the same size that I was 30 years ago, and the "kids" today are usually bigger than their parents. Just look at how standard clothes sizes have increased dimensionally. What is a 12 today was yesterday's 14! That says alot too! Solo commuting will always be with us as long as public transportation fails in convienence, privacy, and safety. Nobody today is addressing that issue.

Razor, You again have forgotten an important point. When are you going to invent the shrinking ray to make people smaller. to fit in these smaller cars? Ergonomics aside, people are not getting smaller! In fact they are getting bigger. You can only stuff so many sardines in a given can. Yes, family size is shrinking, so you don't have to have a "family car" that can accommodate 6 people---- unless you use it as transportation for a bunch of friends or a "car pool" for work. But the people are getting BIGGER--- and take up more room! If you can figure out how to make a car like a "blivot", (That's five pounds of sh--, in a 2 pound bag) then your "smaller car" theory might work....... or the market might become more segmented, with a "work-commute" car, separate from the ol' family hauler. Didn't we already do that? And fuels are going to change in the very near future. There will be several new options, to compete against petroleum---- and yeah, corn may be one of them! I'd like to hold out for the "Blacklight Power" engine tho, where the fuel will be plain ol' tap water! Go read about it at their website! It is not that far away......

Who are you addressing, Newbiewar?

Yeah but just wait until you have to replace it, because turbos are considered, "expendable hardware", like oil filters, spark plugs, etc. If people don't become religious on maintaining their air filter, the turbo will get worn out ---- until they start making ceramic impellers!

On the truck comparisons, I can only give a dated opinion. Traded an S-10 for a Dodge Quadcab, when they made them correctly, instead of a Silverado, which was too pricey and did not offer features. Today would buy a Nissan Titan, for the same reason - features. And by the way, they can't be all that bad since they got picked as TOTY by several mags! GM has shown some very worthwhile features on concepts, and then never produced them (side door on bed). Looked at Avalanche -- too gaudy and too pricey! That's what killed the Envoy XUV -- attitude that features are pricey extras --- to pay extra for! John DeLorean started that mentality at GM and they have never lost it since! That's how the Japs got into the US market, by giving everything but the kitchen sink --- as standard, and matching lowline pricing! Oh yeah, minivans? Nobody has even mentioned them, 'cause it looks like the General has abandoned that market entirely! A state-of-the-art Astro could still kick ass! Station wagons! Oh-h-h, thats a dirty word now, but the HHR is currently the only model where the second row seats fold perfectly flat! Hoo-rah! Give that design team a big fat cigar!!! Right now the General is not even playing a good game of catch-up. His sucesses are overwhelmed by the mediocre majority----- and that is where perception lies! In the Overalls! So General, get your head out of your ass and bring out, quickly, some of the exciting new things that you have teased us with at shows. Your turn-around time needs to be cut in half! ----- But please do it right the first time, and don't make the customers part of your test fleet! Recalls don't help your rep. Ask Ford!!!!

I don't want to seem "cute" but that looks like one of the Mary Kay pink specials! Do you all remember when she used to give a pink car for hitting a sales goal? They started with Cadillacs, and then moved down scale as the winners became more numerous. :huh:

This engine DEFINITELY is not the BOP all-aluminum 215! Here is the frontal cross-section pic from the factory service manual

Razor, You will be looking for a needle in a haystack. There were only 2 or possibly 3, according to some tales of the second gen Scarabs built. Only one is known to exist now, and that one has had a 350 SBC swap in place of the BOP. The other vintage racing Scarabs are the original first gen.- front engine ones. 2nd gen was a rear engine design with RHD. I showed a model pic of it on another thread. I put a copy below:rolleyes:

Razor, No this was not a factory option--- and neither were the Ford-engined ones made by Carol Shelby as Cobras! Shelby never picked up on the coupe, sticking only with the roadster. This conversion was the handiwork of Rip Carter, of Carter's Foreign Car Service in Bell, CA. The Buick engine while slightly bigger was actually lighter than the stock 6-banger that AC used, being wider but not taller. R&T raved about the outcome, claiming that this car had everything anyone could want; speed, handling, brakes and reliability...... and then even COMFORT! Lance Reventlow made his 2nd generation Scarabs using the BOP V-8 as well, but later owners of these cars switched them to SBC engines for more displacement. GM sold all the patent rights and tooling for the 215 to British-Leyland in 1963, when they introduced the V-6, and the replacement for the V-8 was the 300cu.in. cast iron block, aluminum-head engine. The one reason I know of for this change was cost. The aluminum engine had a propensity for getting air pockets trapped in the casting, that were not revealed by any inspection means known at that time. They could get an engine 90% machined and then uncover one of these voids, and the engine was then scrap! It was claimed that the BOP aluminum engine was costing an average of $200 more for each engine produced than the all cast-iron ones. They used a system of air gaging on those aluminum ones to try and find leakers. British-Leyland bought the engine for Rover sedans, and then later after the intro of the TR7 body style, upgraded that car with this engine and made the TR8. One of the domestic problems with this engine, as was discovered by Rover was, that the engine was "dirty" when it came to the new USA pollution standards. Remember mandated pollution controls first appeared on 1963 models under Federal Law. Under those first regs, where everbody was shooting in the dark, so- to-speak, even holy water was suspect! Rover had outfitted the engine with SU carbs and never got it to pass the regs, until they switched the intake system! I've never heard of the Stag getting this engine, but it is a possibility, since the Stag was an upscale TR anyway. That's all I have at this time on this history. Oh yeah, GM tried to buy it back when they bought the V-6 back from B-L, but Leyland said no, we will sell you complete engines. GM told them to go scratch! B)

Do any of you guys remember the old Road and Track magazine test data? In their calculated data section they used to list Engine revs/mile, piston travel in ft/mile, engine speed in rpm at piston speed of 2500ft/min, the equivalent mph, and finally a wear index. These were all good measures to tell you about the engine efficiency and wear, i.e., how long it might last. Engine speeds of 8500 rpm, while attainable do not contribute to long engine life! ........ and gentlemen, we are talking about street machines, not racing applications! To use a prior analogy of proportion ratios, if the 7.0L ZO6 achives 505hp and 470lbs-ft of torque, proportionately a 3.5L V-8 with similar characteristics would theoretically produce 253hp and 235lbs-ft of torque. Now, the key answer to whether or not that is enough is, what is the vehicle that is going to use this mini-Z going to weigh? The Vette calculates out to 6.2 lbs/hp. That would mean that the new vehicle could not weigh more than 1569 lbs. Not practical for an everyday street car, even in Soltice size. Then the other variable would be gearing relative to the available 253 hp. It might call for a new gearbox with some different ratios. Back to the drawing boards gentlemen!!!! Oh yeah, BTW In 1962 R & T magazine tested an AC-Aceca powered by a 3.5L all- aluminum Buick engine, (the ol' BOP 215). The car weighed 2430 lbs., did 0-60mph 7.7sec., the 1/4 in 15.3sec @ 93mph, and that was with an ADVERTISED 185hp and 230lbs-ft of torque! To add frosting on the cake, that was with the old split-torque, 2 speed auto trans that Buick used to make!

Nick I don't think that it is on the open market. My son has been trying to get a job with them for 10 years, but all they have wanted up until now in personel has been phD's for the research. However he told me when he was in the power controls business, that ALL the power companies have advanced them (BlackLight Power) billions of dollars for the development, but were still not allowed to buy a slice of the pie. When a stock offering was announced, all the shares were spoken for by prior agreements. Even the DOD wants in, but the good Dr. wouldn't even let them see his research until the patent office broke down and finally issued him the patent rights that he was seeking. I have also heard a rumor that he is under 24 Federal Security guard watch, so that no harm comes to him before his products/process become available to the public. Very high-powered stuff, and it will not only turn every energy company on its' ear, it will cause the re-write of every physics text-book! B)

And it is cheap! This article is just the tip of an iceberg that we have been following for the past 10 years. It appears that they now have all their ducks in a row, and with this source, you won't even have to worry about hybrids. What am I talking about? Black Light Power, of course. Check'em out! Go read the tip...... http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/...27425%2C00.html :o Then if you want to get the whole story, go to: www.BlackLightpower.com. This will really open your eyes! B)

Total crap! That's like saying what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers! If the engines are of the same displacement, the mass of material CAN be the same! The question still comes back to internal friction. More pistons, rod, etc of V-8 are offset by extra balancing components required in the V-6, if both engines are 90 vees. That is, unless you want to live with a "shaker". Change the Vee angle, and you have an entirely different ball game! Razor finally made a good point. The Italians have been building small displacement V-8's and more that out-perform other engine configurations. Efficiency, is the key; at that brings in the issue of internal friction again. Anybody listening? <_< Razor, this was not a trick question. I don't have an answer, because the answer depends on the flexibility of the engine manufacturing operations; the adaptability of the transfer machines in their set-ups and fast tool change capability. This is something your manufacturing engineers would know. Technology has come a long way, since I was doing hands-on stuff. Old-time stumbling blocks don't even cause a hiccup with todays technology and the advent of computer-controlled machining. Once the programs are written and proved out, --- some machines could be run by trained apes!.......... Come to think of it, some are! (joke)!!!!!!

Harley, I need to jog your memory. What about the '56 or '57 Eldorado Birritz, with the brushed stainless steel roof? Several years ago, Hot Rod magazine did a feature on Caddie Eldo hot rods that were owned by several staff members. A pic was featured on the cover, and mention was made that these cars had features that were factory, that were only available for a short time. Does anybody remember the article and the details about the cars? What year & models they were showing? I had that issue and lost in the move South (damn!) :angry:

Hey guys, this is a tech section, not a sales and marketing forum! Get back to the basic question, which was about engineering and manufacturing cost!

RIGHT ON, regfootball! If you must indulge in reading this crap, make sure that you cover page 49 first. This is the list of the so-called expert judges, and what they drive or aspire to drive! Only two of them own American cars!..... and one doesn't even own a car right now!..... Shades of Ralph Nader criticism. I sent them an e-mail with a comment about the objectivity of this judgine panel. Ol' man Petersen would roll over if he could see what this French company is doing to what used to be the most popular car mag in the country! I sure wish that ol' Tom Macahill from Mechanix Illustrated could be reborn. HE would tell it like it is, and not care whose toes got stepped on!!!!! :rolleyes:

Where did you find one with cloth to look at? All I have seen so far are tricked out 2LT models with leather seats & every other gadget that you could possibly throw at these cars. Not at all what I am looking for. Anybody got a clue as to when they are going to offer the blown engine option from the Cobalt SS ?