FloydHendershot

You just regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. Even after it was rebutted you spin around like the broken record. You clamor about being a leader and qualifications able to listen (yawn) but fail to prove. Repetition of the same flawed analysis won't be correct the third time when it was not correct the first go around. And again you look towards Ford like the shining beacon in the night. Be prepared my friend, the light will soon be shed upon them as well and you will see they aren't in a position to be envied. Simply put You do not get it and am quite frankly tired of your injured party routine. How's this? You are correct. I and others were foolish to disagree with your sadly distorted image of whats happened in the past 30 years and what was able to be accomplished in a reasonable manner notwithstanding super CEO with magical powers. Heres to GMs future success. And just so you know, you frequently misuse et al. It does not make you appear any smarter to those that know its proper use in rhetoric. Good day, Sir.

Any 'beef' I may have was the implication of false hope. Replacement of the CEO at this point is merely gestural as he was not the cause of the laundry list of complaints not only you but many attribute to him. The calling for his head is in the same field of shooting the messenger at this point and has grown somewhat stale. I am forward looking now over the horizon. The gentleman reaplacing Wagoner has been part of the efforts thus far and also versed in tackling the matters at hand as well as anyone could hope. Congratulations on your achievements and continued success.

Sorry you feel that way but you went down faster than a calf at the rodeo and have not dealt with the issues I and others state rather go on about food on a table, employees, and assigning blame. They let him go--a new group of dedicated men and women will take their places and and hopefully continue developing a new vision of GM that remains true to their storied past and doing so in difficult times this country has not faced in years if not decades. So you can understand the language I used and not feel so badly, properly quoted as stating "sound" like a whiny bitch, not you "are" but that is technical jargon, don't take it to heart.

That's correct and why I followed it with the little anecdote. It became clear there were organizational problems once an outside force such as the Oil crisis presented itself. As soon as it (the crisis) got brushed away things went back to business as usual. It took a second crisis to expose many problems, institutional and otherwise that were and are in dire need of correction. Maybe with the conditions such as they are this can, will and must happen. For many this was not well hidden and Yes, all manufacturers suffered but I believe it was disproportional. Just my :twocents:

Basically it was called the Oil Crisis, might have heard of it at some point. That's what dotted and crossed. And quite bluntly that was the precipice for the impending failure which are still trying to recover. Liken it to AIDS or cancer. Those aren't cause of death, neither one of those is what kills you, it's what they open yourselves up to that does the task. Of course that's overly simplified as there are many levels that have been touched upon ad nauseum here alone.

You are seeing it wrongly and thus calling it wrongly. The bottom line is you did not witness water turning to wine and that is your problem. You just do not get it and and am confident in saying regardless of your belief you have little understanding of how this system works and are more comfortable shifting the blame like a loser might in the same situation. Perhaps if you were a true leader or not a failure you would not be concerned with what you were given and would not have to worry so much about the xxamount of people you say you worry about. But again, that is if you aren't a loser. That is how you put it, no? Still for some reason, perhaps morbid curiosity await some facts or at least a relevant and coherent rebuttal as to why you still think you are right other than because you say so. Pardon the colloquialism , but you sound like a whiny little bitch.

Yes! And that has been the point all along. Some people need a face to go along with this and they got it. Some want to blame others at all behest of common sense and logic and they have it as well. Fritz Hendrson will continue with the same goals and focus and after him, if GM is still operating there will be someone anew to work with what has been given to them. It's my fervent hope it will be enough and when the time comes we can once again place Wagoner under the microscope with a different lens. It is about the facts and the facts alone. Excellent post!

OK Wildman. Put your pants back on. :rotflmao: Is it always another persons fault (read: rhetorical) I am with PCS on this--If you can't help someone else, help yourself. Defensive Driving is the way to go. My apologies to any I have offended, the level of maturity here is somewhat questionable and for that I am sorry. Good Day, Wildman Just do yourself a favor and make sure you have good dental records. Usually the body is so badly tore up and unrecognizable either from burning alive if you weren't lucky enough to be killed instantly or from the blunt force trauma of foreign objects, steering wheels, columns, a pillars and so on that leaves nothing but an indented bloody pulp. Wouldn't even bother calling your parents go right to the dentist because that's how they identify people like you. Funny enough usually call in the fire dept. to help clean those types of wrecks. The hose makes it nice and easy to get all this little bitty specs of brain and skull off the road. When its an accident involving an innocent party it's truly tragic, when it's done through negligence and immaturity it's a crime. Have a blast, guy!

With the state of the economy, auto industry and your chosen profession I will venture to guess you have plenty of time to create another historic post with a complete dissertation and and a verbatim transcript from the next 6 hours of c-span. Claiming I'm defending the indefensible does not automatically make your opinion correct. What I take issue with is the facts that YOU chose and demonstrated how you distorted them to claim support falsely for your argument. You cherry picked them, not me. I'm not trying to make this personal but please don't make me laugh. I do not care where or what your position is that does not make you correct either. Give a holla when you come up with different facts I am not privy to that correctly support yur argument such as it is and perhaps I will agree. Until then, Here's my suggestion, You are simply wrong Now we're getting somewhere!

I did not write that, Peter Delorenzo did and I gave credit where it was due. Incremental? He cut billions, closed factories, slashed workforce but didn't close enough dealerships. Lucky you. Perhaps he was too nice a guy and didn't act a little sooner. Maybe his crystal ball was out for repair. Not a fanboy but come on! Yes, when would have been a better time to sell? Not sure what Lutz has to do with this but few argue he didn't do a half bad job when he was working. The GTO joke? The Lx's success? Okey dokey. Wasn't that bad a deal. It cut costs and the buyout was for a 1/5th what they could have paid and not to mention a protracted period of legal dispute that was avoided. On the pus tt hepled the Euro market and saved billions. There were more gains than losses in the long run. So he can be blamed for the losses because he happened to be there but the pros well a chimp could have seen that one, in hindsight of course. Not sure of the agenda you represent but that's a partiality I won't foray. The one time tax credit losses? Thats 40 billion right there. Much of the shortfall was linked to subprime home loan losses at GMAC. Was non cash too IIR. Being nice was possibly what hurt him the most. I don't know him personally, and you will be happy to know he's on his way out with 23 million or so dollars. They could have sold Jag a long time ago. When do you think it would have been better? I would not hold my breath on Ford. Defend the indefensible? That sounds like a poor debating tactic from a position of ill preparedness, ignorance or weakness.

Pardon me for "harping" on this but I think this nails it. Rarely do I agree with this guy but he puts the proper perspective on this one. Contrary to the horde of instant pundit-experts out there who don't have the first clue as to what this industry is all about - or what it's like to actually work in this industry - Rick Wagoner was by no means the evil architect of GM's current predicament. Yes, Wagoner made some mistakes, and I have documented them long before the "Rick Wagoner Must Go" train left the pundit station. The Fiat adventure was disastrous, and Wagoner's initial reluctance to wrestle with GM's bloated structure proved costly. But Mr. Wagoner's most glaring failing really wasn't his at all, but rather it was that he was a product of GM's long corroded and obsolete cultural ideal that the people who run the company should only come from the financial office. This is nothing new it should be pointed out, because it has been part of the GM raison d'etre since the Alfred Sloan era. But it was Rick Wagoner's - and GM's - reality. But there was another side to Rick Wagoner's tenure that the instant pundits out there either refuse to acknowledge - out of their out and out hatred for anything to do with GM and Detroit - or that they simply couldn't fathom because of their abject lack of experience or what is probably closer to the truth, their complete lack of understanding of how this business actually operates. And that is that if Rick Wagoner hadn't taken the aggressively decisive actions that he did take, GM would have been out of business years ago. Wagoner's move into the Chinese market (a continuation of the doctrine laid out by his predecessor, Jack Smith) proved to be pivotal in providing a road map for the company's future. And Wagoner's insistence on utilizing and exploiting the global capabilities of GM's far reaching corporate empire, with forays into Korea, Brazil, Mexico and Eastern Europe, laid the groundwork for a completely modernized and globally competitive endeavor. But Wagoner's most impressive move during his tenure was to recognize his own limitations as a financially-oriented leader, while at the same time setting his own ego aside in order to bring Bob Lutz into the company. Wagoner handed Lutz the keys to GM's woefully moribund product development system and said "Fix it," while giving Lutz carte blanche to do it. And the results were magnificent. During Wagoner's tenure - while benefiting from the vision, passion and sheer will to succeed that Lutz brought to the table - GM saw its greatest design, engineering and product era since its glory days of the 60s. Down the road, long after the lynch mob hysteria subsides - and this administration's pitchforks have been hopefully melted down into brand spanking new American-made automobiles - Rick Wagoner's tenure will be judged more fairly and with the proper perspective. http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=2 To Mr. Enzl, surely you jest about Ford.

and Yum Yum Tree, H20, Black Train Jack

LOL--A friends car--brilliant. It's not about flaming it's purely common sense. Everyone is always sorry afterwards but before never crossed their mind. Somehow I don't think WAS a fool applies. Enjoy your pissing contest!

That's ok--you at least sound like a man. This is still fresh in minds of many I know and sad to boot. TAPout Most probably no fault of his own other than was speeding. Above all else most roads just not built to sustain whatever high speeds a car is capable. Potholes, debris, deer-- at those speeds you wouldn't stand a chance. The autobahn is specially constructed and still has limits! Not a prude, just something to think about.

I've seen the POS he drives and the wrecks he's been in he so proudly posted. Your thinking is shortsighted and flawed. And yes, I'm serious.

Loser. No regard for people and life but your own. I'd brag about sending your ass back to whatever godforsaken country you left. 2 + 2 = a bushel of potatoes. Might not happen today or tomorrow but keep it up and you will most likely be sorry even regrettful at some point. People push it sometimes but think about the old lady returning from the grocrey store or the family of 4 with two youngings leaving grandmas for the long trip back home. No respect. You should wise up and be one less asshole on the road. Don;t even get me started.

You are SO cool, man. That's awesome. Yea! Bet they call you Speedy Gonzalez. Epa Epa. Andele. You Rock!!! Hope you don't take out a family of four and then expect someone here to post bail. Unless you on a track grow up retard. There's enough assholes out there already good to know one more. Rock on!

You sound like a salesman and then what? After 100 days or whatever arbitrary time is long enough then what? It's his "fault" and a new guy will come in and do the job in his "100" days. That's horse$h! and things rarely if ever work like that. And to drive the point home when they do it will involve cataclysmic change that no one ever EVER wants to sign off on unless absolutely necessary. Had the market not dropped below half a different tune we'd all be humming along. You call "RW" a lifer and think that put him in a position to make things all hunky dory. BS! You tell the guy working on the line for 40 years he can call the shots just because. And dont get me wrong--- he may just have some brilliant ideas but the Indians always outnumber the Chiefs.

Shouldn't the horse be after the cart?

Please to be giving me your money. That's bollocks man! (Domain??? Sorry but jigs up. Fonejacked!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBBK3hMk9Lk

Do how long is good enough for Obama. If I subscribe to your logic the same could be said about Wagoner. The ship was taking on water when he took the helm. And keep in mind this was before the market took a dump. That was just the sugary frosting on top. I'm relatively indifferent regarding his tenure and especially but not only because it was a token firing. If you or anyone can't realize that this was not performance based you are probably not only dumb enough to sell a car but dumb enough to drive one either. This isn't tv programming where you change a time slot and expect results next week. If youre accurate in stating your livelihood depends on it you should know this to be true. He was elected chairman 2003 or thereabouts, hardly one product cycle. What did he do in that time otherwise? And maybe not you or your 'co-workers' but many more people would haven't been so lucky had he done what apparently seems to be the only thing to save this beast. Looking back maybe he should have just declared bankruptcy but in turn it may have meant you not working for 3 or 4 extra years. This lineup right now has to be one of the best most alluring in quite a while. Personally, I can think of 5 or 6 vehicles off the top my head I'd purchase from GM, othr than the one I already have now. Possibly the first time I can say that in 10 maybe 20 years. For good measure. Maybe they should dig up Smith and remind all of us how grand the General was from 92-2000. Get real. I wish all the best to the new guys and hope they continue the plans that are probably laid out already.

Looks like he need constant attention. Nothing wrong with that.

I think he was cutting the brake line.

Hobbiysm? Perhaps you could use a hobby and perhaps you should also know that those two girls are sisters. You dont want to know what happened before that.

Don't tell me the news is proof now. We know all about the news and the media.