SAmadei

GM has worked 3-4 ahead of time in the '60s, when there was scarely a computer in the process. The Alpha platform was first hatched in 2004 for the Torana... as a possible global 3-series competitor, NOT in 2009. It was only in 2009 that a new platform was announced. Thats 8 years. And the GM engineers aren't improving the EpII platform as they build the Impala and XTS? In any case, EpII should be a memory, except on used car lots in 2020. Unless, of course, GM goes back to its old tricks. GM morphed the W-body pretty well during its 25 year life. Sigma and Zeta were given a fraction of that. And so the clean sheet has little upper body hard points... at some point, the new platforms won't be platforms at all... but nothing but floorplan stampings and shared suspension bits. What if the next styling fad is an insanely deeply sculpted lower body? Then Alpha's lower hard points become a problem and GM's back to the drawing board for 4 years. Since you can't read, I'll remind you that I was not talking about predicting what GM is doing... but GM had better be predicting what is going on in the automotive field in 5 years. I didn't say you need 4-5 North American divisions... but you need 4-5 high production outlets... I don't see Vauxhall, Holden pushing 50-100K units of just this platform. Right now, Camaro is good for 80K, 50K for CTS... but ATS will eat some CTS sales, so lets say 75K ATS and CTS sales. Thats 155K... over three lines... GM normally expects a lot more than that from a priority platform.

FWD Impala or RWD "Caprice", with roughly the same engines, similar gearing and weight, they are going to have similar mpg figures... but its nice to be able to pack a V8 version... obviously something a FWD car has trouble with.

Apples and oranges..can't really compare a car from over 40 years ago w/ a modern car. Cars were bigger yet lighter then. No, its not apples and oranges... its space per pound. For people not desiring 800 pounds of modern gizmo overkill, comparing basic transportation, the Merc has everything needed at much less weight. Put this next to a S550 and the average person would think the S550 was lighter... and thats not the case.

Better yet, this is 100lbs lighter than a BMW 650i... 400lbs lighter than a Mercedes S550 or a Chevy Traverse.

What products on sale during the BK (2009) will still be offered, virtually unchanged in 2020?!? GM needs to get things right on the next product cycle, not take 2-3 overhauls to catch up. If GM can't forecast four years out and make competitive cars, they aren't going to be fixed in 2020... or in 2040, 2200, 2240 or 24022. The way GM is doing better business is to have blown off its legacy costs, of ~$6000 per car. Olds, nobody here thinks you download a new car/platform/engine/trans like an iPhone app. But we want GM to speed up the process because they have the technology and parts to fill holes, and yet only sell them overseas. By the time the ATS rolls into lots, Alpha will have been souring GM's RWD plans for 5 years... when does the next Alpha drop? Maybe the 130R? Maybe a 2016 Camaro? Critics will have some issue with the Alpha... too small, too large, too heavy, too flexible, won't pass 2016 impact regs, etc. Next thing you know, Alpha is declared obsolete by GM engineers and nothing else gets built on it and its successor... Alpha2 doesn't see the light of day until 2021. This is the fate of Sigma, Kappa and Zeta. Right now Alpha has two products depending on it... GM seems like it will only take a platform seriously if 4-5 major car lines are using it. Unfortunately, GM no longer has the brands to push 4-5 medium-to-small RWD vehicles. I don't think anyone expects GM to create the perfect platform... since in a world of changing priorities, its a moving target... so GM needs to get over it and start building cars and brands with some real equity and stop playing with vaporware and unobtainium.

I imagine the death watch is on... as annual Lincoln sales fall to Edsel levels.

Seems awfully late in the current Scirocco product cycle to get halfway serious about this.

'70s Diarrhea Brown has a lot more character than '00s Champagne.

Too bad Lincoln's name recognition has dropped through the floor. "Lincoln? Didn't they go out of business in the '80s?" This is a bogus metric, anyway... After the Navigator and Town Car, everything else is MK-something. I bet if they open up this up to include long discontinued brands, Continental would probably still be more popular than MKZ.

I think alot of this is due to the fact its such a stretch upmarket for Hyundai, with an unproven, new V8 engine hitting the market during a downturn. I think the sudden existance of the same-name Genesis Coupe and Equus also confused the situation for the buying public. I think they'll do better as time goes on. Not unheard of, as I don't recall any of the Japanese companies fielding new luxury models doing all that well on the first generation, except Lexus.

NJ/NY must be were all the'79-'85 E-bodies are. I swear I see one at least once a month... sometimes 2-3 in one day.

Was thinking about this old thread, and realised there is a car missing from this thread. Most of the cars mentioned in this thread, I see from time to time... sure, it may be months or even years between sitings, but I still see a Chevette or a Fiero probably 1 or 2 times a year. What haven't I seen "in the wild" in probably 5~6 years? Chevy Berettas. Considering they sold 50K a year until the end... and the youngest are barely 15 years old, I think its amazing that they seem to have completely disappeared since 2005. I see plenty of Corsicas... and even rare '88-'91 Pontiac Tempests... but no Berettas. Makes me think GM bought them all back after the lawsuit was settled or something. ;-)

Problem is that its more Ferrari than Italian. Ferraris don't do it for me. If I wanted Italian, I'd get a Lambo.

Well, I'm making the assumption that its MySQL (or another popular SQL database) based, as most of the forum software packages out there are. Most of the best will save everything in the database... threads, photos, system config... so there is little outside the database that needs backing up... as a fresh copy of the forum software is generally available online. I don't actually know what/how C&G is configured, however, so I'm just speculating... and I meant to note that in the first post (but was sleepy and forgot).

Audi called. They want their grille back.

You would, in general, need direct database access granted by an admin. You can do some pretty sweet things with MySQL replication for live, realtime failover. IMHO, anything else would get you a browsable, but static copy of C&G... and would take too much effort to return to its current dynamic format.

I've never experienced any repeated emissions problems with any of my American cara, except a couple I bought for less than $250. And even my $250 specials, for the most part, gave me 100+K before being put out of rotation. I've never owned a European car, but many of my friend's experiences were, well, expensive and unhappy... unless it was new or nearly new.

I did see some Camaro in the frontend, which I like, but it leads to the point made by Chris about two different design crews not communicating about the ends of the car they were working on. Unfortunately, the Camaro cues... seems limited (to me) to be the hood detail, and header above the grille. I liked the '77 Firebird nose... but not when it was tacked onto a '82 J-body. Same goes for these Camaro bits on a Crosstour. Errr....Oldsmoboi got all the crucial angles (good job!). Camaro you say?! Check this out!

Same here. So far its looking too Italian.

I'm speechless at its hideousness. As with DF, I get a Crosstour/5 Series GT vibe from it, but with half a Buick sweepspear and a G6 bumper fascia. I think the designers that sabotaged Pontiac have moved on to destroy Chevrolet. Two tone dash is ugly, as is the clumsy looking steering wheel. After being teased with so much stuff about the new Impala... from RWD to retro cues... to being a stylish FWD car... this is a disappointment. Rentals will love 'em.

Thoughts... wow, those three people sitting in the back better be friendly... those seats are NARROW. The sunroof will give you a better view of the day traders falling from the skies when our financial systems crash again. Finally, I think the sliding doors, while saving space, are going to result in more passengers getting hit by cars. Granted, there are taxis with sliding doors in operation in NYC right now, but they are in the minority. This NV200 is looking to become the dominant taxi, so other drivers are going to get used to driving closer to the sides of the taxis. I still think Nissan blew it with this design... lopping a foot of overhang off the front would have allowed an extra taxi to fit in a NYC short block during gridlock conditions.

Do the mudflaps have little chrome ladies on them? ;-)

But when I look at the front, I really see cadillac before I see the emblem of what product line it is supposed to be. This is sad as it really should be individual to keep it seperate from another brand. Cadillac never had an A-body or colonade. I'm not seeing Caddy-specific styling.

For such a large opening, I would hope they laminate the glass in some way, like a windshield. If they wanted to, they could make the glass tougher than the sheetmetal, but it would obviously weigh too much to be practical. I had a friend flip a vehicle with a standard sunroof, which didn't have a laminate glass and the pavement flying by at 50 mph ended up taking a nasty bite out of his rear end... literally. I hate sunroofs, so this has zero appeal to me.

Then the car will lose popularity over time. Most cars grow because the buyers want more space... sure, people talk lightweight and tiny, but after owning such cars, they crave space. With space comes weight.