SAmadei

The city of Cleveland is happy to have the Browns back... even if there is a gap in history. IIRC, not on player from the original Browns made it to the new and improved Browns. I'm not suggesting GM would bring back Olds... or that someone would try to make Olds anything more that a low production, niche brand. Alot of Oldsmobiles where sold years ago, and some people do miss that kind of car. Hell, they're making '69 Camaros again (I'm not talking about the 2010 one... I'm talking about the C.A.R.S./Dynacorn bodys which can be turned into a turnkey, new, no-GM-part-in-sight, '69 Camaro-appearing car for about $40-50K. Sometimes Hell freezes over. After, all GM is on the brink of blinking out of existance... foretell that ten years ago and people would think you were nuts.

I would say no... in the mainstream world, out of sight is out of mind... forever. And I feel the dealers would never go for it. Of course, I feel Oldsmobile is actually on temporary hiatus. At some point, GM is going to sell the rights to the name and history to some group that wants to make a "traditional American car" again. If GM doesn't sell the rights, I'm sure it's bankruptcy trustee will. Now that Chrysler is in the hands of people who like to make money, and not lose it, I'm surprised a bidder for Plymouth hasn't come up. After all, that's probably as valuable as the Viper unit Chrysler is thinking of selling.

I don't know about that. I think the Vibe is miles ahead of that thing. Speaking of the Vibe, how many more years are GM and Toyota stuck with this whole NUMMI thing?

If that's the future, Yechhhhhkkkkk... I seen the future and it sucks. I've kinda stopped caring, as well Oldsmoboi. The big BMW and Mercedes coupes are calling me.

Since no one else answered, I'll try to help. The window motors aren't too bad to fix, my only fear is that once they open the door up, some dealers do a crap job of closing it. Case in point: I bought my '99 Bonne used from a Nissan dealership. It needed a new driver's side rearview mirror. Well the clowns at the dealership broke some of the trim pieces trying to get it apart, as I guess they are not used to GM's solid auto building techniques. ;-) My door was kinda loosey-goosey until I grabbed new trim parts from the junkyard and fixed it myself. In retrospect, I should've asked for $300 off the car, and did the job myself. If a GOOD mechanic does it, they should be in and out of the door in, say, two hours, tops. I would suggest that is isn't that hard of a fix, if you have a helper hold the window up, but I know some newer GM cars have the door panels fused to the outer door, and I can't suggest how to reattach those. My '99 is from the previous half-generation. In reality, all Bonnes '87-2005 are pretty similar. If you don't have the GXP or a supercharged engine, you would have a 4T65-E, which is a tranny used by GM for YEARS without serious problems.. I have never heard any worse stories about the H-body trannies than other GM lines. The GXP and SSEI both actually get a stronger trannies, the 4T65E-HD and the 4T80E. What to look for is problems with the Upper Intake Manifold, if its plastic. Series 3 3800's have a aluminum UIM, and are better. Problems with DexCool ruin the UIM and LIM gaskets... get rid of the DexCool ASAP. There are reports of the Bonneville bodies having leaking problems... and the trunk, when opened in the rain, tends to dump water in the trunk. They are still nice cars, and I am struggling with the decision to get a '05 GXP, a GTO, a G8 GXP or to hold out waiting for a G8 coupe or the Camaro. I will likely buy a GTO and pick up a Bonne GXP in a couple years when I give up on my '99 Bonneville. For the record, my Bonneville has run 150K in 4 years (it's up to 193K)... and while it's not been perfect, I still like it. All used cars break. For more info, head over to the BonnevilleForum(s).com. _VERY_ knowledgeable Bonne folks there. Stephen

I have a '95 Caprice... same car, but the Buick is more luxurious and has a different grill... oh, and some have the cool vista option. My Caprice is a stripper (manual windows... LOL), but it is comfortable and pretty darn quick for a big car. 260hp from the LT1. There are several places to get info on these... impalassforum.com, 9c1.net, impalasuperstore.com... quite a few more. My Caprice is also fairly high mileage... I think it was in taxi service... I got it cheap, and its been more reliable than I expected. I get about 19.5 mpg on the highways at 80+. Most parts are pretty cheap as well. The only complaint I have with the '91-'96 B-body wagons is the sloped rear roof/window hatch. I also have an '88 Pontiac Safari and a '86 Buick LeSabre Estate Wagon... the old boxy wagon has a taller rear entry. I used to drop engines into the back without problems. The '91-'96 cars the opening is only about 29 inches tall... so you get a bit of a pinch going as you slide larger things in the rear. Also the license plate is on the gate... not the bumper... so driving with the gate down potentially can piss off law enforcement, as your plate is not really visible. These are minor complants. If I could have found a nice, clean Buick Roadmaster, I would have hopped on it... I feel these are some of GM's last great cars.

These are the manufacturers' freeway numbers. 'Driving it like you stole it' applies to sub-50 mph jackrabbit acceleration and teeth-pulling stopping. On the freeway, doing a steady 70, these cars need to get closer to 40. I'm sure when the companies tested these, trying to get the highest numbers possible, they drove them like you 103 year old great grand aunt Ethel. BTW, I drive my girlfriends Corolla 'like it stole it'... and it still gets killer mileage _and_ doesn't fall apart flying over gigantic potholes. I can't figure out what magic Toyota put in this thing... I still hate Toyotas, however. My beater '95 Caprice wagon gets 19.5 mpg in the mix of freeway and top-fuel-stoplight drags I do. At $4 a gallon, 20K miles a year, that's $4K a year. The G3 would average about 30 mpg, giving it the benefit of the doubt. Again, 20K miles at $4 a gallon... $2.6K a year. $200 bucks a month is a premium I pay for size, safety, comfort and speed (yes, my Caprice is quite quick) and it's paid for. How much is the monthly payment on a G3? Yeah, yeah, I know most people want a new car, blah blah... but even comparing the G3 to a G6, the mileage is not compelling, which is my point.

Besides children under 7, where are all these tiny people who are going to fit into the back door of this car? In the sketch, it is scarely bigger than the grill, if the grill was turned 90 degrees.

Not. I don't want any 1982 two-tone paint scheme... or ricer gee-gaws. OTOH, it would be nice to get the supercharger, and still be able to finance the whole she-bang. It would also be nice if SLP could request some decent Holden colors... I'm sick and tired of Black, Red, White and fifteen shades of silver and grey. Holden has some colors back home that make the early '70s Mopars look tame. I don't care if they use the Firehawk name... as long as it is not written on the car forty-two times.

34 mpg is not excellent fuel efficiency for something that small. It SUCKS. The Cobalt XFE is claiming 34 mpg... and is twice the size. The Corolla gets 35 mpg and is even bigger. Yesh.

It's because it's my opinion. GM likes to build "niche" vehicles... then just as they develop a following, or they get good, they get canceled. This just pisses off the enthusiasts. Fiero, Reatta, Allante, Aurora, SSR, Bonneville GXP. The logic is always, "Well, we weren't selling 80K a year, so it was a failure... even though the original plan was to only sell half as much. Cue the Sky and Solstice to join this list. Sure it will... over 7 or 8 years. As much as I like the retro styling, how will it look in 2018... when the original first-gen F-bod only stuck around for 3 years... well, almost 4 if you count the extended '69 strike year. I hope all these guys haunt and taunt the GM management every night in their sleep. THEY knew how to run a car company.

Thanks. I can't figure out if you beat my hour estimate by 54 minutes or missed it by 6 minutes. ;-) Unfortunately, the Volt has lost any interest I had in it...

Bankruptcy sale?

I actually agree with this to a degree... give it a Malibu-like front end and Camaro taillights (or better yet, go back to the two sets of three rounds like the old school Imps) and build it in NA. Still sell a Pontiac version here in the states, as well... but at least now we don't have to pay higher Aussie wages, shipping across the globe and Chevy/Pontiac can brag "Made in the USA!"... and we have some economy of scale.

I think I already know the answer to this, but I haven't actually seen detailed bits about the drivetrain... but its my understanding that the Volt will have a totally electric drivetrain. A gas engine, but not directly connected to the wheels, but to a generator. So if I understand correctly, since any set of wheels can be happily powered, which will it be? Front or rear? I would actually be somewhat interested in a large RWD electric coupe. ;-) I'm sure someone will set me straight in less than an hour... thanks in advance.

I don't think the Camaro is not the right car for now. I think it will sell about as well as the 4th gen did. It's too late. It should have come out in 2005. I'm sorry, but designing cars is old hat now... Nothing except the Volt drivetrain are new at GM. Even considering all the federal regulations, GM should be able to get a car from car show prototype to show room in 18-24 months. Anything less, and managers should start getting fired. It's too lonely. GM did the whole Zeta thing half hearted. The multiple personality psycho known as GM management should have made a decision and run with it. A series of cars, like a Buick and Chevy in addition to a NA G8... *gasp* a Firebird, would have spread out development dollars. Lutz says it would have cost $2 billion to make a Firebird... BS. _If_ I got a Camaro, I'd build my own conversion... in my garage... and it would likely cost me less than $20K to develop and a few thousand per car in parts to mass produce. Without huge sales, there will be no 6th gen on Alpha... its the way GM's mentality works. "Try, but no use in being a fool about it".

Then Cadillac should build _one_ car a year and sell it for a trillion dollars. Some oil sheik will buy it for the exclusivity.

We've had high gas prices for over two years! And only a blind fool would have not seen the housing bubble popping and the resultant recession. The G8 V8 is not so bad in the MPG range. 24mpg versus the 28mpg Camry? For 362 hp! I'll that the 4mpg hit any day. I'm putting up with 19mpg to enjoy the relatively fast 260hp and full-size comfort of my Caprice wagon. As far as price goes, _every_ decent car is over 28K now. With the recession and inflation, the Yaris is going to cost 30K soon... Someone else in the thread noted that the G8 is too large to be a sports car. I disagree. I feel the Aussie ideal of short, wide cars does not necessarily translate to the US market... I feel the G8 needs an additional foot of length.

WTH? It wasn't but a few months ago, the G8 was the second fastest car off the lot, just behind the Prius. Are they stagnating on the lot or is GM failing to import enough of them? When will they start making them in NA? Stephen

What?!? GM didn't have anything to do with Saab until 1990. And they were called '92's, not '9-2'. About half that list is BS, IMHO. Stephen

You forgot the Salsa. Very similar to the Stinger, but slightly more conventional. I remember seeing this at NYIAS about '94... it looked alot better in Orange and later, light green. http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/1085114-1.html Washable interior, "active lifestyle", beat the Honda Element by a decade... but looks alot better. Oh, I'd never buy one... but that's only because its just slighty larger than my sneakers.

Sorry to be anal, but the Vega was an H-body.

Pontiac's Chevette was called a T-1000... like the terminator. the later LeMans replaced it, but was a FWD, Korean POS. I actually liked the Chevette/T-1000s... simple, RWD cars. Don't try to change the starter, though. GM put it under the intake and it was unbelievable to get to the bolts. I forget why, but at some point I was taking the glovebox out because it interfered with removing the starter.

Sounds like a good time to cancel it and sell more FWD!!!!

I am likely wrong, but the Datsun 280ZX had them until 1983, along with a few low-end Chevy fullsize vans. Since the 280ZXs were still wildly popular when they started making 300ZXs, I would lean towards them being last. Most cars went square by 1978, so these were serious holdouts. I imagine the Corvette still used rounds in 1981, as did the 1981 Camaros. Anything else would be IMHO, a niche car... I suppose some European exotics used them until the '90s. A lot of the exotics with concealed headlamps didn't bother to switch to square until a major model overhaul occurred. Porsches had round headlamps until the early nineties flush mounts, but the late '80s where not traditional round sealed-beams... I'm not sure when they changed. Stephen