SAmadei

LOL. Of course, this is generally in line with what the politicians and general public think is within GM's ability, but since GM is in big oil's pocket, they'll never make a feces-powered car. When Michael Moore reads this, he'll make a "Who Killed the Mach Six Feces Car?" documentary. In another somewhat tongue-in-cheek suggestion... Since people are presently afraid of buying GM cars due to the possibility of a lack of parts if GM went bankrupt, I suggest GM turn the tables on the Japanese. In 1936, the Japanese started making stovebolt sixes that were such a close copy of Chevy's stovebolt that parts interchanged. I suggest GM start making parts that are exact copies of Toyota and Honda parts for their cars. Then if your windshield wiper motor dies, and GM is history, you can pick one up at the Honda dealer. Ducking...

IMHO, red directionals are a very American distinction. In other countries, the amber is required by law. I don't like the ambers as I feel they are too bright at night. OTOH, I do agree that blinking the stop lights is a potential safety issue... and alot of GM cars have had separate red directionals and stoplights... such as the Celebrity, IIRC. Of course, when we talk of taillight safety, I can't believe that in this day and age we still have cars with a single stop bulb on either side of the car... IMHO, all cars should have multiple bulbs on each side and they should take up a decent amount of real estate on the back of the car. A big cheap out in this aspect was the 1990's Thunderbirds. The car appeared to have a full width taillight... but it was 90% reflector. On the little tiny ends actually lit up... being tail, stop and turn lamps. I hate ambers on the rear my car, and promptly try to change them to reds.

This is not the case. Buick was always upmarket of Olds. Historically, both (along with most of the rest of GM) produced 'floaty boats', but Buicks had more conservative options, styling and powertrain options. Olds was always more cutting edge and experimental, but they were still upmarket, well optioned and, well, floaty. The GN and T-Type were Buicks answer to trying to inject some new life into a division that recognized that their demographic was getting _way_ too old. I don't feel either had a Euro feel... they were just sporty in the same way the GSes and Stage 1's in the '60s and '70s were. If anything, I felt that this was Buick attempting to copy Pontiac, not Europe. GM first did Euro-like styling in the '90s with Olds and Saturn. This was a big mistake, IMHO.

I don't understand why GM would put this in the plan. Is GM going to buy back old cars or are they proposing the government do it? As a taxpayer, I don't want to pay for that. It's not going to help GM sell cars, unless they are going to start selling something that compares with a rusted out, oil burning 1986 Chevette for $300. People who still drive stuff like that aren't doing so to save wear and tear on their CTS-V in the garage. The old car scrapping for tax credits programs in Cali have demonstrated there is NO pollution savings because the bulk of the cars scrapped haven't run in years and were sitting quietly in someone's back yard. SEMA is going to fight it. As a old car buff, if it came to be, I would boycott all future purchases by whatever companies were involved and would actively vote against the politicians involved.

It could be a cheap nationwide entry into the US car market for someone, either foreign or a hobbiest (Lutz? Penske? Branson?). With GM's market cap around 2 billion recently, lets say Chevy is half of that... of what is left, could someone buy Pontiac, the Pontiac dealer network and a couple closing factories for, say, $160-200 million? I'll have to ask if my boss has that kinda cash hanging around. ;-)

While Pontiac may fill a niche, as long as BPG is treated as a brand, marketing-wise and dealer-wise, Pontiac is going to need to be niche RWD performance cars _AND_ small slightly premium cars, such as the G3 or G5. The reason for this is simple... the dealers need something in this bracket, to have a "full line" and because Buick is not going to successfully field a rebadged Aveo or Cobalt. In seeing Saturn go away, I am sad to see the Sky go. IMHO, it should go upmarket and to Buick.

IMHO, once Niche Pontiac became "cool", sales would push it right out of niche status... like in the '70s. Shame Olds couldn't have been transitioned into a niche. I still like the idea of a G3 (or A segment) pocket rocket.

6'4" and 375... I am bigger than most NFL defensive lineman... but I'm long in the torso and wide at the shoulder, so to avoid having to cut a hole in the roof, I have to tilt the seat _way_ back. When I drive most small cars, my side view is out the rear door window. I "fit" in a Corolla... but its uncomfortable as hell. Realistically looking at my driving habits, I drive solo 95% of the time. I have a single passenger the next 4.5% of the time. On the rare times I would have a third, I can drive my Caprice or Bonneville. A 2 seater is fine for 99.5% of my driving. Though, granted I take up much of the Smart car's 510 pound capacity. I'm in the market for a G8 GXP (or coupe) _AND_ a Smart car. I live a split life, half in the big city, half in rural Jersey. I would have bought one of those "Chevy Triplets" had they built them... I want to buy American (yeah, I know the G8 comes from Aussieland... but that's because GM hasn't bothered to build them here). I've driven the Mini... I'd have to modify the seat tracks a bit... but the Mini isn't as mini as the original... 142/3" versus 120". 20" is a big deal in NYC. The Smart is 106"! The Miata... too long and I doubt I'd fit. I'd really buy a Solstice or Sky first... but I had a near panic attack when I nearly got stuck trying to get in the Soltsice coupe at NYIAS. M5? Rather have the G8. I'm a GM diehard.

The Smart? Bombing? I have to disagree. There is a 1-2 year waiting list, unless you want to pay $5K over MSRP for one on eBay. Of all small cars, the Smart is on my short list. It's 2 door. Its RWD. It is actually small enough to park anywhere, like a small car should be. I fit in the Smart. I can't say the same for the Aveo or Yaris. And both are way too big due to the useless second set of doors and useless backseat. (The backseat is useless when I have the front seat ALL the way back). I only want one because parking a '95 Caprice in Manhattan gets old real fast. And some NYC parking places only charge half price for the Smart to park. This is $250 a month instead of $500.

So if Chevy badges the G8 as a Caprice, they are going to have better luck selling a $30K RWD V6/V8 sedan?!?

They won't sell 1.5x Impalas. No Pontiac, I'm not buying GM. I won't recommend GM to others, either. Just as others have mentioned, when GM killed Olds, all that volume was LOST. GM needs to inform Congress of that. They should also let Congress know that Chevy, BPG, Cadillac and Saturn would be only 4 divisions, not 6.

I agree. No description of a car should cite another car... it needs to stand on its own. Personally, I agree with the split grill and widetrack. Keep 'em. Even hood-tachs are still cool. Pontiacs still need to be somewhat over-the-top. I would also add that the long, thin, horizontal taillights with horizontal stripes need to make a comeback. Every classic Pontiac has had them, and this current "round lights under clear plastic with chrome" is a ten year-old trend... its old and needs replacement. In sticking with the "deadly looks, dark soul", dark, recessed taillights are a must. Car marketing always shows the aggressive front of cars... but on the road you spend most of the time staring at the rear of cars... and "showing one his taillights" is a taunt to the loser in the stoplight grand prix. Finally, I imagine that Pontiacs' halo car should be like the cars kids in school drew. Nobody in school drew a Taurus or a Camry.

Screw that. Give me a G8 GXP with a Procharger, Pedder's suspension and diplomat plates and I'll drive. Anywhere. Then Congress would be complaining about all the burnout marks on their precious highways. ;-)

More embarrassing than the T1000 or the '88-'94 LeMans? The G3 isn't my cup of tea, but its a lot more car than these were... and the T1000 was RWD. Between these and 30 years of Sunbirds/J2000s/Sunfires, it demonstrates small Pontiacs were popular. I remember a time when it seemed like every fourth Chevette I saw turned out to be a T1000. Again, I hate small cars. But I'm fine with the G3. What pisses me off is the idea that Pontiac will offer nothing bigger than a G5 and everything will be FWD and 4 doors.

I can't complain about the G3. Its a needed product that is one of the signs of the times. OTOH, what I think the Aveo/G3/Yaris segment needs is a pocket rocket, like the early '80s GTI... give the G3 turbo and make it exclusive to Pontiac. Yeah, and call it a GXP. Get the money-strapped young folks used to the GXP badge, if GM is going to keep it around... as they will be BMW, Lexus and Cadillac buyers of the future. GM doesn't have the rocks to invent a new segment, though. Donning my fireproof underwear now...

Actually, we don't know that. Playing devil's advocate, its only theory that dinosaurs and old plants turn to oil. And it has cropped up from various sources over the past ten years that many old oil wells are refilling. http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/24/101927/375 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;pagewanted=all Obviously, to be taken with a grain of salt.

You are absolutely right that GM products would be "kool". That's what Steve Jobs brings to the table... kick-ass marketing. Sure, Steve doesn't have experience with the automobile field, but I feel GM has a pretty good grip on designing and building cars... except the UAW. Steve Jobs' bean counter side would get rid of the UAW a first priority. As far as innovation, IMHO, Jobs has never been on the cutting edge of innovation. Under the hood, the Macs have been the same-old same-old. The IPod was nothing special. However, it was marketed that you NEED an IPod. The Mac has a refined, simple interface, which is revolutionary... and the marketing takes that and flies with it. Buying a Mac makes you a member of the elite. All marketing. As an IT guy, I watched the Apple rebound with interest. Apple was in sorry shape when he came back. It took years to fix the mess, so don't sell Jobs short. IMHO, Apple was as dire as GM is now. Jobs has the marketing and business acumen to do it. I don't think Jobs would want the job. I forget what he drives, but he strikes me as a Porsche or BMW guy.

Bankruptcy doesn't bother me. I don't care about resale... when I am done with a car, it goes to the scrap yard in pieces. I don't care much for the warranty... I will likely void it with modifications or abuse. I prefer to fix my own stuff anyway. What is keeping me from buying a new car? GM's bean counters and product development committees. The current 2009 G8 colors don't thrill me... and the only 2008 color I like (Stealth Blue) was sold out before I found out that more than 18 came over here. What kills me is that the cool colors are available in the same factory where the G8s are built. Like the green Atomic Metallic. Put me down for an Atomic Green G8 GXP immediately. You can't even get the G8 GXP in the color they had at the auto shows (the Brazen Orange-like metallic). The same crap is going on with the Camaro. You couldn't get the SS in all the colors... but public uproar changed GM's mind. When I was looking at the STS-V, you can only get it in three colors... not the cool dark cherry I liked. GM... add some option boxes... you build all the parts. If I want a Green Camaro with a Orange interior, let me have it. 6 speed, leather, performance package, but no sunroof. I know what some of you are thinking... but I just can't stand the idea of repainting a brand new car. Ugh.

Big SUVs, dead... yeah, I can believe that... SUVs are back _only_ for people who NEED them, With that idea, GM had better pack it in. Even if gas is $15 a gallon, there will be people buying big cars. There are alot of people leaving the SUVs behind, but still need a larger car. DTS - Cost of average fuel per year @$15/gal... $12500. Cobalt XFE - same... $7500 I can't live my life in a tiny Cobalt. I'm going to have to eat the extra $5K a year (@$15/gal) to allow myself to fit the people and things in my car. Sure, I'd have to save my money by being more selective with my trips. I doubt the average American can fit its obese, McD's-fed body into a Cobalt. The Cobalt XFE will be compelling for everyone when it gets 75 mpg _more_ than every large vehicle. For GM to just give up on big cars, is to surrender the market to the Asian companies... they'll just make more Avalons. Just like GM gave up the police/Taxi market. Just like GM gave up the muscle car market (for 8 years, at least). Just like GM gave up the subcompact market years ago. GM then should give up all the markets and just continue to build parts for the cars they sold in the last few years, since people are going to be holding on to them for a _long_ time.

I'm 6'4" and make the average NFL Offensive Lineman look like Kate Moss... I can likely wedge myself into the front of the Aveo... with the seat pushed all the way back, rendering the rear seat useless. Or I could sit in the back... if I took the front seat out. I'm not comparing the Aveo (155") to the Mini (143") based on content, but on size. The old Mini (120") was dirt cheap and was even smaller than the current Mini. Are you suggesting that carmakers can't make a short, 3 door that can fit a normal sized America (6ft tall and 6ft wide)? The old Metro came close, but it is still too long (149"). Even the old Festiva (136") was better... So, then lets compare the Aveo to the Smart (106"). The Smart is RWD and fits two people reasonably comfortably. And I can park it in NYC anywhere. This, IMHO, is a totally missed market (except for the Mini at the high end and the low end Smart).

Pontiac drivers seem to go to Nissan, IMHO. Years ago, I used to note that the only people who would blast by me on the freeway where Nissan Maximas, Pontiac Bonnevilles and BMWs. I assumed they must be cut from some of the same cloth... maniacs. ;-) Every secondhand Bonneville (including the one I own) and GTO I look at I seem to find on Nissan dealer's lots as trade-ins. I imagine that adds up to a lot of new Maximas and G37s. It's ridiculous that I have to go to a Nissan dealership to get a good Pontiac. Ugh.

That picture of the rear seats gives me a claustrophobic chills. IMHO, for a car to be called a wagon, it needs to have at least three feet of space behind the rear seats.

I'm surprised more companies don't offer 3dr Mini competitors. If you are tall, a 5-door does you no good, as nobody can sit behind you. With a 3dr, you can ignore the rear seat, the car is shorter (for easier urban parking), and the car is lighter (for better tossability and economy). Great if you usually only drive solo. These 5 door compacts are useless to me. The Mini is great, but the driver seat track goes back one notch less than the passenger side. Makes it a little bit tight for me on the driver's side... and its a blast to drive in the big city...

I really like the patina on that. *sigh*, I wish I had an Olds to post. So far, I only have Chevys, Pontiacs, a GMC and a Buick. My mother's old '81 Cutlass isn't mine yet and isn't in a condition to post up here. Maybe I need to start searching eBay. ;-) I see an Olds (and a Caddy) in my future.

I don't see anything sluggish about 3.08s. I've have several cars with them, or steeper. My Caprice has 2.56 or 2.93, IIRC. Moves like a bat outta hell. Do all of these SUVs have drag strip 4.11 gears to get their bulk moving? That's pathetic.