InvictaMan

Man, you sure have to dig for that. Thanks for finding it. Their site is organized pitifully. Wondering? Should I sign up for the advisory board? I did for Enclave and felt like it was more of a publicity thing than something that actually made a difference. About all that came of it were a few snippet posts of comments they received, no real feedback or interaction. I almost feel that they probably see more input from perusing here, and the C&G conversation is much more engaging. And that eCityofStyle award is great for both Buick and Cadillac. This type of prestige, connected at the hip with the fashion industry, is something that would resonate strongly with potential New Buick buyers. Too bad it is lost in the jumble.

Was refering to the NA site, but it is amazing how much more sophisticated the Chinese site is compared to the NA. No wonder the cars sell better there.

I thought the Alpha would be a 1 or 3 Series competitor. Shouldn't Cadillac stop worrying about Lexus and Acura and set their sites a bit higher? Those auto makers aspire to be what Cadillac should be reaching for right now. Then perhaps Cadillac wouldn't feel so threatened by Buick's rise to meet their former level. Buick was once considered the sporty luxury model, and Cadillac the luxury barges. Automobile companies have to change to meet the level of the competition, hence the evolution Cadillac has been making over the last several years. If Cadillac held the distinction of being GM's only luxury sport division, there would have never been a GS, or GSX, or GNX to set the precedent. I'm sure Cadillac enthusiasts have been thrilled by the depression of the Buick brand by GM, it has made their job much easier. But we are talking about divisions of the same parent company, so what ever is good for one is even better for the whole. It is Buick's turn to rise to meet the competition. As I see it, the Cadillac fans should be thrilled, because this will only lead to better Cadillacs. Sibling rivalry just splits families apart, and GM certainly cannot afford that right now. So what if there is crossover? The styles are different and sales are the ultimate goal.

Here is a better look at what the Invicta will be competing with. This is the Lexus Future-Sedan (LF-S) that is illustrated on their web site. Considering that the ES is a thinly disguised Camry, they are obviously tooling up for its replacement. I think it still holds its own against this design. Can you believe that Buick has yet to put anything on their web site about the Invicta Concept? They seriously need to look at their competitors sites and update theirs accordingly. Their potentail buyers are very web savy, and the Buick site looks like it was created in 1996. They are incredibly slow to get timely info up on the site and it is not nearly as dynamic as their foes. They are especially lax about future stuff, which I think would be important for a company that is rebuilding its image, and hopefully projecting one that will be around for a long time.

Sorry Paolino, didn't mean to sound generally harsh toward your observation, I simply think that the Azera, though a great car, simply still is not going to be in the same class of build as the Invicta. The Genesis is getting there, but I still think it will pale in comparision to the Buick, if the Buick is manufactured as we see this concept. I'll give Hyundai credit, they have done well as a value point near luxury, and they have a huge distribution network, but I personally compare them to the "new" Buick like I would Chrysler. The Invicta will certainly get a V8 option in Super mode, sorry about the RWD. The Genesis styling and interior seem inferior so far. I am actually more excited about the AWD option for the Invicta. I'd love to trade out my 2003 Pilot utilibox for an AWD Invicta. I can borrow a friend's truck when I need to haul big stuff, lol.

I think Buick should offer competitive specs on this car that are on target with the ES, and the GS; a single car with trim and options levels that match two separate offereings from the competition, at a price point that will beat both and hit budget limitations according to option or level choices. Let's face it, Buick is not going to match the Lexus line-up car for car. This would actually work in Buick's favor as far as manufacturing and sales savings. I do think Buick needs a RWD flagship that competes with RL and LS (now there is a tough comparison) at a lower value price point. But they really need an IS competitor, the specs in the previous post illustrating that even the IS is above 4-cylinder. Buick is evolving into a different car company, we have to get over the mild crossovers with Cadillac. They will appeal to two different buyers and really, is Cadillac that insecure with their new image. They are supposed to be moving up in value to compete with the BMWs and Mercs. After going back and reading this again, I just chuckled at the thought of folks being concerned about Buick taking sales from Cadillac. This is a good thing for the division that everyone thought was one foot in the grave. You go Buick!

How about this as a comparo: Now tell me which you think looks dated and less desirable? I'll give Lexus the fact that they went with a production panorama roof (for those who prefer the view above instead of the road ahead). Oh, and get a look at that deck lid, looks about the same size opening. And please put the gas tank opening on the other side when the Buick goes into production. Afterthought: When I saw the actual Invicta photos for the first time, I thought the seam on that hood looked a little big, not tight. Now that I compare the fit and finish of the seams on the Invicta in this shot (realizing of course that this is a concept and not production) to the ES in the other, the Invicta's are tighter than those of a Virgins Are Us group meeting. Very nice!

Since we have a specific target in mind, let's look at the performance specs they have for their vehicles on their web page. Forgive the formatting, I just copied and pasted directly from the Lexus site. Lexus LS Eight-Speed Automatic Transmission, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering (VGRS) [LS 460 L], Direct Injection, 4.6-liter V8 Engine, Adaptive Variable Air Suspension (AVS), Electronic Power Steering, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Ultra-Low Emission Lexus GS Dual Variable Valve Timing, All-Wheel Drive (GS 350), Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System (GS 460), Dual Exhaust, 342-horsepower, 4.6-liter V8 or 3.5-liter V6, Eight-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic (GS 460), Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS), Ultra-Low Emission, Six-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic, Performance Brakes, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering Lexus ES Six-Speed Automatic Transmission, Independent Suspension, 3.5-liter 272-hp V6 Engine, Dual Exhaust, Ultra-Low Emissions, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes Lexus IS Direct Injection, Six-Speed Manual (IS 250 RWD), Performance Brakes, IS 350/3.5-liter 306-hp V6, IS 250/2.5-liter 204-hp V6, Six-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive (IS 250), Sport-Tuned Suspension, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Sequential Paddle Shifters, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Ultra-Low Emissions

Granted, the Genesis is a vast improvement, but I think you give Hyundai way too much credit, especially in comparison with this car.

Buick should take the logos off, put it in high end shopping centers and interview folks as to what brand they think it is and their impressions. The interviews would make for great commercials and sell it in the same manner as sitting the Camry and Accord beside the Malibu, just a bit more deceptive in its comparison. If all else fails, sit a Lexus and Acura beside it in the showrooms. Only thing is you have to get them in the showrooms first.

If it doesn't have Nav with XM traffic and bluetooth, they've just wasted their time and ours.

Is Autoblog the only place that has a gallery of real photos? I want to see more high-res real photos, not CGI, of the interior details. Open up those doors and let us inside already!

It's been Hell here at the lake house, the dial up has been my enemy, but I just couldn't wait until I got home from the weekend to see this thing. I took my time (obviously, with DU, lol) and looked it over carefully before forming any opinions. My impression... jobs well done. As with any vehicle, there are angles that look more pleasing than others, but this vehicle is as close to the mark as you can get when you have their target market in mind. It is very Asian. I recall comments from this forum, even back before I actually registered as a member, saying that Buick could learn a thing or two from Lexus and Acura. Well, they have. If the new RL looked anything near as pleasing as this design, they would not be offending their loyal fans. Toyota, even Lexus, will have to aspire to be Buick again, because their vehicles are bland in comparison. When you look beyond that initial impression, it suddenly does become global in its design and appeal. As I said in another post, they have definitely done their homework. This car emulates the best of everyone's favorite luxury brand, its appeal will be massive. Thanks to GM for saving a great brand. I guess the only sad part of this is that we have now officially done away with the Buick that was the embodiment of the "American Spirit." Though the headlights give the impression of those hawks that soared, wings spread with red, white and blue flair, Buick is no longer ours. To save our brand we must now give it up to global dissection and integration. Is it worth it? Well, time will tell, but I sure do like the results of this multi-national effort. I want to see Buick move on to reclaim their rightful place as a respected luxury motor car. I just hate that GM didn't have the desire to do it for those who placed it in that distinguished place holder from the beginning, instead of alienating them to the point of abandonment with years of old school product. Ramblings & Rumblings: It's obvious from looking at the mule that the front, lower fascia will be changing to something more real world. Though I initially thought the design favored a gaping jaw, I feel this is a design cue that is not seen on most production cars and sets it apart from the competition. It grew on me. If the deck were longer, the hip on the sweep spear would look wildly disproportional. I think they balance each other well. The HVAC vents on either side of the dash look like add ons, with no flow into either the dash or the door. I thought that kind of strange, for a vehicle with this much attention to flow. The Enclave concept had wonderful ambient LED lighting that never made it to production. I hope they don't miss the boat on this one. I'm still warming up to the hood lines. With the headlights, it hits me kind of Sebring. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Speaking of headlights, they are much better than the Left Lane drawing. Love the rear end, but the US plates are going to be floating in the huge universal holder. Interior is very promising, I want to see real world pics of that center stack instrument pod. Looks like scroll wheels on the steering wheel controls, that should be interesting.

The only thing that remotely resembles the Enclave is the hip, and it is poorly executed. LOL on the Signia. It does favor that one, the most horrible concept car contrived by Buick to-date. That thing would have made the Aztec beautiful. Thankfully, the Rendezvous only carried the slightest hint of the back glass. I do think Buick needs a place holder in this class. A five-seater, smaller crossover would be a welcome addition and they could blow this Toyota junk out of the water if they only applied themselves.

Been a Netscape user for so long it is hard to change. Nine emulates FireFox and they are so similar, guess I'll just have to make the jump. Just figured that since there was a spell check option that kicks in while editing a post, I might be missing something in the composition.

LOL, see what I mean! I need help. Or placement in an institution for suffering from many other acronyms.

Is there a spell check option in the composition mode for messages? I can't seem to locate it and I find myself going back into edit mode constantly to correct my pension for speed typing incorrectly. Please advise. Thanks.

Well, anybody have a show schedule for today or know exactly when we can expect the release of photos of what we've been obsessing over for the last while? I think we are all frustrated enough and ready for some closure on all the rumors, lol. I'm sure those in the know have thoroughly enjoyed the speculative banter. Oh sheesh! In my excitement, I thought it was the 19th today. One more day, I'm a moron, thanks for noticing.

Saw the "Craft" commercial and they are still showing the "Drive Beautiful" tag line with the logo at the end of the commercial. Could be a transitional thing, but it's still out there even if not on the web site. Additional rambling: Hey, I own an advertising agency, so I love the work to keep plugging along to bring in that cash flow; however, I think I would advise Buick not to change marketing campaigns so quickly or do a better job creating them from the start. Drive beautiful was not the strongest for a company trying to rebuild their image. The worst part was that it cross marketed with the campaign of a competitive company, one that does not necessarily help build the stand alone, quality image Buick needs to project. In this case, they were probably wise. I think quarterly changes in marketing are great, but you can freshen marketing without changing complete themes. Buick needs to build recognition in unconquered markets; markets that purchase luxury cars based on their projection of quality and stability (as if they don't already think Buick is on the way out the door). Kinda hard to do when your marketing is schizophrenic. I like "Craft" better, it kind of rides on the coat tails of "Art and Science" that Cadillac benefited from.

Good observation. Do you think maybe they haven't applied a rocker cladding yet? The almost on spot rendering shows a more involved rocker design.

Hmmm.... Just noticed the title of that Chinese pic. It is called New-Regal. Do you think that this car is meant as a Regal replacement only in China, and they are keeping their LaCrosse? They are two completely different cars, one is more relaxed and curvy (mid-range) and the other is very square and formal (upper-end). This car is definitely more curvy and not as formal as the CLaC. Their market does already have this precedent. Somebody, please give us some final names so we can know what to call this thing over here!

They may have been imports, but they were actually originally marketed as Buick Opels. And if I remember correctly, they had a Buick logotype emblem attached to them, since imports were not too keen at the time. I used to love to drive them when I was working at the local Buick dealership, when I was a teenager. An old girlfriend had one in college, but I think they were simply Opels at that point, distributed by Buick.

You think somebody was tracing photos? LOL. The grill looks much better on the mule, even unchromed. Let's hope for better headlights. Horizontal bar in the lower grill fascia looks like a nice addition.

Well Moltar, much to our surprise the rear views are much more streamlined and elegant than the Insignia; Still big, but better. I've been comparing the Insignia with this new shot of the "whatever" and the similarities are so great that I fear there will be too little difference between this and the new Aura. GM needs to make more differentiation in the production models to justify the price difference, or they will be doing Buick no favors. I'm anxious to see the cleaned up show car. The sweepspear looks more afterthought than graceful in this image. I'm waiting to see how it ties into the lines flowing into the front fascia. Looks like the headlight pod, even in rough mule format, will be more sophisticated than the drawings, which is a relief. I seem to be in the minority on the rear fascia design on the renderings. I actually think it is a perfectly modern interpretation of the Buick style on the tail lamps. The Lucerne tail was going a little Mazda for me. Wheels are different too from the previous spy shot. Don't mean to sound negative here, just apprehensive. From what we see so far, this car is light years ahead of the one it replaces. On another note: Remember when Opels were Buicks and not Saturns? I wonder why GM didn't just change the name of Olds to Saturn instead of starting a whole new company and killing one with history. It might have been a more congenial public relations move. Olds was on the way to becoming Saturn style and they could have done it with more grace and clout than trying to sell the earlier models Saturn produced. The whole space thing... Olds and their rocket ship and Saturn's rings in relation to the new Olds logo sans rocket... would have been an easy, believable transition. Saturn simply took the new Olds design cues and cheapened it up for an economy box. Opel as Olds, instead of Buick, would have been an easy consolidation.

I'd say they are right on target in Canada. Acura and Lexus must be shivering in their boots, eh? Does anyone have the comparitive figures for the US?