ellives

It's the same stuff you can buy at Walmart, specifically "Bar's Leaks Gold" or something close. Supplied by the same company to GM.

You do that. I'll be happy to point out my '97 STS is STILL running without any coolant problems after 122K miles. Somehow it hasn't caught fire yet either. Maybe we'll see each other in court testifying.

Those "magic little tabs" you can buy at Walmart. They simply seal any tiny seepage that may happen anywhere in the system. If they are used as directed they work effectively. They are not however intended to be placed into the overflow tank. Rather, they are to be placed directly into one of the radiator hoses. Lots of people have placed them in the overflow tanks which has the effect of clogging the hoses back to the radiator - not good. If GM is guilty of anything, they are guilty of not communiticating what they were changing about the coolant and why. Most people including MANY MANY professional mechanics I know (not do-it-yourselfers) are ignorant about coolant and tried to use the methods and practices they used with the old, green, change it every year coolant. These approaches do not work with contemporary engines and the technologies used to build them. On top of this, most often the "sludging" people have referred to with respect to Dexcool has been the result of mixing the old green stuff in with Dexcool. Again, not good.

Merrill- Lynch falls in the same category as bean counters. They jump on the bandwagon when it's obvious something is changing. In GM's case, the stock has already risen 30% so Merrill jumps in with an opinion. I hope none of our posters are using them to buy stocks.

I don't understand Ford either. I never understood the demise of the Taurus. It fell off the planet so fast it was scary and it was a nameplate people recognized for good or bad. The Lincoln unit sales number posted in that other recent thread were absolutely embarrasing for Ford. The Town Car used to be THE big luxo product. Obviously this too has passed.

Original link didn't work for me. I think this one does: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...7/1002/BUSINESS

The scum sucking lawyers are at it again. "Please pay my client because they were too stupid to replace their coolant."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...3/1002/BUSINESS BY JUSTIN HYDE FREE PRESS WASHINGTON BUREAU May 23, 2006 A federal judge may soon rule whether General Motors Corp. will face a national class action accusing GM of selling millions of vehicles with a faulty coolant. The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks between 1995 and 2004. According to GM, 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of engine problems linked to Dex-Cool. Customers have complained of problems ranging from small coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests related to Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected models and considered recalls for some models. The company has issued several technical bulletins to its dealers about cooling-related problems in the engines, but says it prefers to handle customer complaints on a case-by-case basis. When GM introduced the orange-colored Dex-Cool, it said in owners manuals that Dex-Cool could last up to five years or 100,000 miles without being replaced, and later extended Dex-Cool's life to 150,000 miles. Dex-Cool uses a different set of chemicals to protect engine parts than traditional green-colored coolant, which requires more frequent replacement, and GM was the first U.S. automaker to use it. Attorneys for the owners say that clause means GM should repair any Dex-Cool-related problems, even if they crop up outside the engine's typical 3-year or 36,000-mile engine warranty. "What we're looking for is to have GM step up and honor its warranty obligation," said Eric Gibbs, a San Francisco attorney and one of the lead lawyers for the owners. "There's a significant public interest in this problem, no question about that." GM claims that the owners manual clause was not a warranty, but a service interval. In its court filings, the automaker says Dex-Cool "has performed without problems in the vast majority of GM vehicles." "The recent motion to certify a class action is unfortunate," said GM spokeswoman Geri Lama, "and the situation with our customers has been grossly overstated through unsubstantiated allegations in statements which have not been proven in court and will be vigorously defended." Six of the federal lawsuits have been consolidated in a federal court in East St. Louis, Ill. U.S. District Judge G. Patrick Murphy could rule at any time whether the cases, which have about 100 named plaintiffs, should be granted class-action status, meaning they could represent millions of former and current GM owners. Three similar lawsuits has been filed in Canada, while a state lawsuit in Missouri has already won class-action status, a decision GM is appealing. The troubles blamed on Dex-Cool range from leaking coolant to blown engines, and often include failed intake manifold gaskets, pieces that rest between the engine block and the air intake to prevent coolant and oil from leaking. Replacing a gasket usually runs about $700, but a bad gasket can cause enough damage that the engine has to be replaced. Mixing Dex-Cool with another coolant can cause other problems, and GM doesn't recommend using other coolants in Dex-Cool engines, although some mechanics do swap coolants. About 110 complaints of coolant leaks in the GM vehicles targeted by the lawsuit have been filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, according to a Free Press review. The agency rejected a call for a defect investigation in 2002, saying the problems weren't safety related and was therefore outside its purview. Many of the complaints say the problems appear to begin around 60,000 miles, well beyond the engine's warranty but sooner than many customers believe they should have problems with their cooling systems. A few have been reported as early as 20,000 miles. Mark Reynolds, a radiator repair shop owner in San Carlos, Calif., says he sees one or two GM vehicles a week with Dex-Cool problems. A typical repair requires flushing the cooling system and in some cases taking the radiator apart. "It's a shame -- vehicles in their fourth or fifth year with this awful, gooey mud attacking the top of the radiator cap and fouling up the radiator," he said. GM has argued against certifying the lawsuit as a class action, noting that state courts in Michigan and California have already turned down similar lawsuits. It contends that the plaintiffs want to represent past and present owners who don't have any problems, and that they "complain of just about everything that can go wrong with a vehicle, attributing every bit of it to Dex-Cool." Lama said if a GM customer has a problem beyond the warranty, GM has a process for dealing with it through its dealers. "The first priority of General Motors and its dealers is helping our customers," Lama said. Contact JUSTIN HYDE at 202-906-8204 or [email protected]. Copyright © 2006 Detroit Free Press Inc.

Resale value is all about perception and a lot of factors enter into the equation. At one time resale on Cadillac was poor because of quality but this is not a valid factor now at least from my own experience. Today it's all about GM's troubles and not about the Cadillac product. On a side and unrelated note, I smoked an Acura TL yesterday on my way to work in my '97 STS and I *really* wanted to pull up next the guy at the next light and ask him how it felt to be beaten in his expensive Jap car by a 10-year-old "old man's" car.

It may not be fair but it's interesting nonetheless.

I don't get your point. They deleted three colors and added three. Would you have them go back to some two-tone choices a la the 1980's? I hope not. Aren't all Camry's gray?

The point about the fuel economy is a waste of electrons. It's the stupidest discussion point to make in this category of vehicle. People that spent this kind of money on cars don't care and if they did, they wouldn't buy one.

Because they lie when it's convenient to do so? Hopefully they had some facts and rationale to back themselves up.

So what you're saying is Toyota and Nissan lie. Big surpise. The shocking numbers are those workforce numbers. Even if they jettisoned the total retiree count, they'd still have 100K more employees in their workforce than Toyota is showing. How do they compete at all with those numbers?

Too long.

I like his thinking. It supports my contention to keep the bean counters out of the design making process around product. You'll never made class-leading products with them in those positions. Hopefully beyond coming up with some great products they're studying Toyota and preparing for their opportunity to go for the jugular. Everyone has weaknesses. GM's job is to figure out what Toyota's are and expose them for all to see.

Yeah, I caught that initial volley. It's like an advertisement. I hope they got their money's worth out of it. I just wish somebody would start posting some good (and feasible) ideas here as to what can be done about it. Is this all there is? Commiserating on a web forum?

That's painful to see in print. Graeme Maxton's email address is [email protected] if you care to respond.

"Execution" is essential and is probably assumed. It's tough enough to come up with a successful plan. If they can't execute it, they're dead.

My pat response: Those who can, do; those who can't, write about it. While all of you naysayers out there would criticize Cadillac for the CTS and comment as below that it is "outsold ... by ... competition" the key to remember is the product is oh so VERY much better than what it replaced. Keep in mind that brand loyalty is huge in the car business and getting people to even consider something that was been considered undesirable for ANY reason, is going to take time and patience. Oh and yes I know the argument is there where Cadillac must be better than their competition, not just "almost as good as." At this stage, every generation of what they're bringing out is leaps and bounds better than the prior one. The key to it all is the rate of improvement and as long as they're improving their product faster than the competition, they'll catch and overtake. They get it. Believe me they get it. No; that's not it at all. You missed the point. It's not that 2 or 3 minor features are the "missing", it's that 3 or 4 minor features are "missing". See, it's not just one single thing, so the entire vehicle shows just what continues to be so very wrong with GM. See now?

I'd consider the commercial success of the Escalade MUCH past the CTS. Prior to the first A&S 'slade the Escalade was a joke slapped together in record time yes, but it was still a warmed over Denali. 99% of consumers couldn't tell the difference without seeing the badging. In many ways this vehicle was the re-birth of Cadillac and not the CTS.

Sales data means very little when you're hemorrhaging cash.

I loved this quote. This is so typical "bean counter" and the reason why a good one is so important and yet why you never want one to run a company. They'll ruin it. Finance people are all "historians." They tell you what happened. If they get too big-headed for this role, they'll bury you. "Minimize risk." GM needs to TAKE risks... but well thought out calculated risks. No bean counter is ever going to help you with this and the fact that he made this statement should be loud and clear statements why he should go too. With all the financial BS (who ever heard of a company making a swing from a $300M loss to a $400M profit anyway?) that has gone on at GM they NEEDED to do some house cleaning. Hopefully they'll move Henderson out to pasture soon too.

I agree. Going after something so lofty when you're core business is under siege is foolhardy.

Ditto. I was in Atlanta last year around this time for the FIRST robotics competition at the Georgia Dome. I noticed the signs on the subway to Doraville and came to know at some point while we were there that there was a GM plant in Doraville. I was subsequently shocked and dismayed to hear about the plight of the plant thereafter. Good luck and "Go GM!"