Northstar

Ah, I see what you meant. That's true, but it's also true that now the CTS is competing against an almost brand-new BMW, so I guess both of our points are valid. 6th out of 8 is not good, but the fact that it didn't place last when it clearly had the worst interior, least features, and a higher price than most of them is, because that only leaves handling to make up all the points that it lost on the others. My point was that you wanted evidence that the CTS performed well, and I think this is pretty evident when it has all of those things going against it yet doesn't place last.

Sweet, thanks aaaantoine!

I think he's saying that if the Honda says it went 4% farther than it really did than it would get a better MPG figure.

That's basically what I said, is it not? I was saying that a vehicle that's been on the market for 15 months should outsell one that's been out for 4+ years, especially when the newer vehicle is considered to be built by the best-in-class brand. I think the article you posted proves that statement. They didn't care for the interior, it didn't have many features compared to the others, yet it performed well enough to beat two of the other cars. Also I'm confused on your "most of them are newer" statement. Are you saying most of the cars tested are newer than the old CTS or that most of them have been updated since the test? Because I'm pretty sure the G35 is the only one that has received anything but minor updates. GM's press release says that the DI V6 is available with the manual, yet the rep at the show said it's not, so we'll have to wait and see. The e-brake is an issue.

I have one of my Camaro color chops up now (black with red and white). aaaantoine - that's awesome! Would you mind sending me one (PM or something) in 1680 x 1050?

I have a Dell Latitude D820. Got it in August sometime. Anyways... Intel Core Duo T2400, 1.83GHz, 667Mhz, 2M L2 Cache, Dual Core 1.0GB, DDR2-667 SDRAM, 1 DIMM 256MB NVIDIA Quadro NVS 60GB Hard drive 7200 RPM 8x DVD +/-RW w/Roxio Creator

That's not that impressive for the BMW... it's the CTS's fifth year on the market, and the BMW has been on the market for what, 15 months or so? Yes, the BMW outsells it by a large margin when you add the AWD sales, but there are lots of people who won't consider a vehicle if it doesn't have AWD. I believe all of the cars that finished ahead of it are newer (except maybe the TL), and look at the highs and lows. Highs: Distinctive machete-hewn styling, "GM" and "handling" are an oxymoron no longer, solid torque, lustrous paint. Lows: Exhaust drone, blurry controls, dime-store dash a generation behind the competition. The exhaust in the video someone posted sounded great, the controls are much improved, and quite clearly the new interior is at least tied for best-in-class. I would like to see a points breakdown, but it appears there isn't one. Where would the old CTS have placed if it simply had the new CTS's interior? What if it had the 300+HP? How about the (most likely) improved handling? How about the new car's looks? All of these things would make a huge difference, and I'm pretty sure the only vehicle in the test that has been significantly updated is the G35, and it's upgrades were not as drastic.

I doubt this engine will have more than 400HP, so they wouldn't put it in the CTS-V. Possibly in the next STS-V (supercharged, as you said), but not naturally aspirated in the CTS-V. Maybe in a regular CTS to bridge the gap between the V and top V6, but I doubt that, as the STS needs something over the CTS in the engine range, and giving the CTS this V8 wouldn't allow the regular STS to have anything unique.

I suppose, but those aren't perfectly accurate either. It also depends how much you change lanes/which lane you are in though that's not adding much distance. I don't think any car is perfectly accurate. What if one car reads that you've gone 10 miles, and one reads that you've gone 10.4? I think that could be very possible. Finally, if they're so worried about their warranty expiring early, they're only losing 1440 miles. So, unless this problem occurs between their odo reading 36001 miles and about 37500 miles, it doesn't even matter. They should have their car checked out right before the warranty expires to make sure nothing is about to go wrong, anyways.

But how do they know they've only gone 100 miles is my question? I guess if numerous people are reporting it it's probably true. This would also make the MPG look better...

2009 is probably in time for the NG STS. It will make a good addition to the Lambdas when they get an MCE, too. Right now I don't think there's really a product that such an engine deserves to go into, other than the Lambdas. New CTS, maybe. The STS and XLR aren't going to see sales by getting a new engine, though.

I don't understand how they can prove this... do they count backing out of driveways, driving through a parking lot, etc., when the figure out how much they've driven?

$3k is still too much for GM to be spending on vehicles. I predict that with the new T900 Silverado and Sierra incentives will drop about $700 more on average (just from those two models, as I'm guessing they make up about 1/5 of GM's sales and their incentives are going to drop dramtically). Also, the Lambdas should help as well as the new Malibu when it comes. Those are all replacing heavily-discounted vehicles (Lambdas replace CSVs).

I don't think the X6 is going to do very well... it looks like more of a station wagon than the SRX.

I'll be going most likely. Not sure when though.

The only thing I can tell is that it looks like a smaller S-Class/bigger new C-Class from the rear.

258HP. It should satisfy most buyers, but it won't be nearly as much fun as having 300+. EDIT: I just looked at the specs, and it says you can get a manual with the 3.6... so maybe it's late availability or maybe the guy is just wrong?

It was 1.96 a couple days ago, don't know what it is now.

Welcome! What is your degree in?

The Mustang is definitely a piece of crap. The GT and GT500 are only respectable because the engines are at least decent. If GM cheaps out on the Camaro so that it can match the Mustang's price, I for sure will not buy one.

Looks cheap and almost Korean.

Here's a pick of the rear seat (finally): Looks spacious and at least if you're not sitting in the middle, it looks like it will hold you in place pretty well.

I don't think leather needs to be standard. Not everyone wants leather. The 8-way passenger seat should be standard though. If the driver's seat has it, wouldn't it have been simpler to just make one type of power seat instead of two (4-way and 8-way?). The GTO had 8-way power seats for both passenger and driver standard, and the Enclave is much more up-market.

The CTS looks better, but the SLS is not bad. An SLS without NAV would not look too good though (I think), but the CTS will look the same most of the time.

I'm just saying if it was high quality and looked like it belonged (they aren't just going to slap on the Solstice's grills and call it a day - I bet they're more angular) then it wouldn't look so bad. Those real-world pics look very good, though the front is definitely the weakest part.