Northstar

That's surprising. Is that after installation even? I figured they'd be at least as much as something from the factory.

I think there are quite a few (100-200?) 2005 GTOs on lots nationwide.

Go with the Zeta Impala when it comes (if you can wait). Best of both worlds. RWD performance, probably looks better than the Malibu, and has 4-doors.

I don't think I'd put one on the GTO. If I'm going to spend probably $1500+ on a modification it's not going to be a sunroof.

I couldn't have said it better myself about the GTH and FTD factors. FTD is evaluate in other areas and GTH has nothing to do with how good the car is. If 20% of the test is based on that, only 80% of the test has anything to do with which car is best. Can you link to this Edmunds test (start a new thread perhaps?)? If it's something relatively minor 5-10 HP, then it's nothing major, at least when you're at the 300+HP mark. I know there have been GTO's with the LS1 that have dynoed anywhere from 290RWHP to over 300RWHP from the factory. The tune on every engine is slightly different and therefore they make slightly different power numbers.

Like I said before, I don't see how I'm adding the curve, it's C&D that's doing it. This is how I look at C&D's curve: Take for example a student who gets a B- in a class. He did really well on his midterms but never did homework. The professor decides to make the homework such a small percentage of his grade that it's insignificant, even though originally it was to be 20% of his grade. Making the midterms worth more and homework less bumps him up to a B+. Then, the professors remembers how popular the student is, and how much everyone liked him. He decides to bump his grade up a full letter grade just because he was very popular. The student ends up with an A+ when he really earned a B-. This is what C&D does with their "Fun to drive" and "Gotta-have-it-factor." The fun to drive part is like the professor making the homework worse less; points were already earned for being fun to drive in the performance categories. The Gotta-have-it-factor is just a popularity test. Car X could be the best car in the world, but if for whatever reason no one buys it, it's not very popular. This doesn't take away from how good the car is, which is what comparison tests should be about. Sure, the 3-Series may be the "coolest" in many opinions, but that doesn't make it any better. Unless buyers are spending $40k on a car because it's popular, or evaluating all of the areas and then deciding that they should decide by which car is the most fun to drive, I don't see how I'm giving GM a curve. The same thing happened in a GTO vs. Mustang comparo. It was in the 10Best issue, and the GTO won by 9 points (I believe) until the Gotta-have-it factor where the Mustang magically pulls out a 10 point (1 point more than however many it needed) advantage in the Gotta-have-it factor so that C&D doesn't look foolish picking it as a 10Best car. The GTO was the better car, the Mustang was the better seller.

If the market doesn't grade on a curve, why does the test have one then? All I did was eliminate the curve from the results... BTW this was Lexus's second attempt.

Hey look, the CTS had the best rear seat space! The CTS did poorly in interior design, fit and finish, exterior styling, features and amenities, powertrain, all of which have been significantly improved in the new one. The interior is gorgeous, the exterior is amazing, it seems to have tons of new features, and it adds 45+hp. The BMW added 10 points of fun to drive (which should already be counted in the powertrain and chassis perfomance and it sounds like the BMW wasn't driven much ), and gotta-have it factor, which, by the way, adds nothing to how good of a car it is. Take those away and the CTS doesn't lose by nearly as much. I see no reason why the new CTS won't win this comparison.

GM typically gets off to a slow start sales-wise, so some extra cash on the hood is definitely good if it helps GM get say 25% market share in January. GM's market share is usually a lot lower in January than other months, so 25% would be great. On the 2005 models: How does the customer know what the total incentives on them are? They aren't posted anywhere. I also don't see why anyone would be a 2005 MY vehicle in 2007 unless it was the perfect car. For instance my favorite GTO color is Midnight Blue, so if I could find one for $20k then I'd take it and run, but other than that, it would have to be one hell of a deal.

What I meant by rush it out is what they did with the T900s. Do it right, but do it as fast as possible by still doing it right. I wouldn't want it to get here in a year but be a poorly engineered POS.

If the height is comfortable I think it will be okay, though it definitely should have it. Let's sit in it before deciding whether it's "too low." Also, I think I'd rather have power recline that seat height adjust. I hate manual recline, so hard to get it just right.

I've thought about selling the GTO too if we could get $20k or so for it; it's just sitting in the garage and the only times its gets driven is sometimes by my dad and when I come home for breaks or occasionally on the weekend.

You've got to be kidding me about your Corvette statement. People dream about owning a Corvette. They may buy it partly for what it is and what it can do, but they also buy it because they like how it looks and its a CORVETTE. Saab is nothing special outside of New England, I agree with your statement. I think Hummer is a status symbol. Why would people drop $55k on what is basically a Tahoe that can only have 6 seats, get's worse gas mileage, handles like complete crap on the road, and really doesn't have anything about it that would make it "better" than a Tahoe other than offroading and being a Hummer.

GM should rush this vehicle to market as fast as possible. Of course they should do a good job developing it, but it should be project #1 at General Motors. Ahead of the Camaro, Zetas, etc.

The new C-Class is very average. Aside from the front (which I like) it is either boring (the side), or somewhat ugly (the rear). The interior is very lacking in design originality. It looks like it came from a VW but they forgot to upgrade it to Audi levels for the luxury version. The CTS murders it.

I would guess they'll have another 72 hour sale at some point, but who knows when.

That's about what I was expecting it to start at with all those features. I think it should do pretty well.

I'm sure they're aftermarket companies that do that, not just dealers. The buyer could have bought it and taken it somewhere to have that done. GM can't do much about it...

Well, Ford is in a much tighter spot than GM. If it was either Toyota helping GM or GM dying, I'd vote Toyota helping GM.

It's a sporty car, not necessarily a sports car.

A roots-type supercharger is typically between the cylinder banks. How would a turbo fit between the cylinder banks?

According to gasbuddy.com, the range here is $1.88 - 1.99. It seems as though when the college students go back to school the price goes down because there is less demand. Last semester the same thing happened; gas dropped about $.20 in the couple weeks following school starting.

No greater than 5.3? I find this hard to believe... The 4.8 is iron block only, is it not? They wouldn't use that. The Northstar is too big and heavy, and by the time the Camaro comes, the Northstar will be almost out of production, so why would they use it for one year? The 5.3 is a truck engine, and not suitable for the Camaro. A reworked one might be okay, but this still doesn't make sense at all. The GTO only got a new engine because the LS2 wasn't available when it was introduced. GM didn't say "oh, let's put the LS1 in there the first year, then later we'll add the LS2." If the LS2 was available from the start, it would have been in the car from the start. In addition, the 5.3 doesn't make much more power than the 3.6DI, and will get much worse fuel economy. I see no reason why GM would pay to have the 5.3 validated for the Camaro only to drop it a year later. The LS9 is turbocharged now? Last I heard it was supercharged.

I'm assuming the diesel will be OHV, not DOHC. The Duramax, Cummins, and Powerstroke are all OHV.

Evoke?